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HexaNoid

[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

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That didn't look...terribly one-sided. Just getting hit by a lot of random stuff...

Round 3 was pretty bad though for you. Probably should have used that meter to CA out of the corner pressure, since it was the corner "mixup" that got you in round 2. The burst was pretty uncalled for considering with his life you would need 1 LONG haida combo or 1 reset combo.

You could have easily taken Round 5. Problem there was hitconfirms, you have lots of opportunities and most of them were missed. Shame you couldn't really use the meter in that round.

Overall: Make less use of 6c. The hitbox is a lot easier to connect when Bang is flying around but its so unsafe on whiff. Taking the purple throw/throw tech in a normal string is definitely more advised if you do manage to land a blocked 6c (ie. throw cancel).

More 6a would be nice? Has better invul than 6c and safer on whiff if you cancel into 2b?

But what do I know...:psyduck:

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You use 5C>3C alot. Try to refrain from using this on a blockstring. The only time you should use that string is on CH 5C or crouching hit. Also, try to use more 5C>2C or 5C>6B, the former being in the fact that 2C gives nice frame advantage and the latter being that, well, it's an overhead (hit by overhead = damage).

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0:18 - 4D should really be used to stuff approaches and gets beaten out by lows so use it sparingly

0:31 - Hitconfirming on your drive combo. 214A is unsafe on whiff and won't connect on crouching

0:49 - 5C > 3C on standing

1:05/1:46 - 22C; No 22BBBBBC~66 dash cancel. Dropped/strange combo at 1:05

1:16/1:26 - 3C on block

1:57 - 236C whiff; 55f of recovery

2:20 - 4D > d.6A > d.5A > d.6C; dropped due to d.5A > d.6C not connecting

General - 5A > 5B > 5C > 3C on block and on standing hits. Lack of 5C(CH) hit confirms.

I know you already said so in your post, but watching your video it shows that you're really not very comfortable with Noel yet. I noticed you were spending a lot of time in the air and Noel's air game is a lot weaker than her ground game, so you'll want to stay grounded as much as possible with her. When pressuring with Noel, I also noticed you would use 5A > 5B > 5C and then either stop or use 3C. 5C is -3 on block and 3C is -16 so try not to end your pressure with either of these moves (especially the latter). Like Raptor has said, 5C > 2C is a better way to end pressure as 2C is +3 on block and try to not to use 6B too much as it's -4 if they block it and 5C > 6B can be DP'd out of if your opponent sees it coming. 5/2A stagger pressure is another really strong tool Noel has for pressure which you should learn to use at some point.

I saw you finish one of Noel's drive combos properly, but other than that I think you dropped the others that I saw (3C > 22C > 66C whiffed for example). Work on using Noel's dash cancel after 22C and remember to fit in some 22B reps for extra damage and heat gain. I think you should work on learning a few more of Noel's combos such as her corner combos and brush up/optimise the combos you do know for now.

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Keep in mind that even though it is dangerous to do so, 2C > 3C is a frame trap that will CH anything but DPs and Tager's sledge.

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slow down, you are not used to noel and you are trying too hard to win. You just end up spazzing out and doing some really random things (like 2C->2C->2C vs litchi). Calm down and take it slow, get a feel for her before you start going for the serious win.

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Loser's Finals at my last tournament, please let me know what I'm doing wrong in my approach against Arakune and anything else I should keep in mind. Leave a comment on the video or in this thread :)

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0:17 - Sub-optimal combo route. Use 22B > 22BBBBC instead of OpticA after 2B > 6C

0:40 - Drive during curse is a bad idea. 0:43 - Try and save bursts for during the pinwheel (j.236C) attacks during Arakune's combos, as anywhere else it's easy for him to bait/avoid them.

0:45 - If you can't confirm CHs, do 2D > d.5C/6A > d.6C. You gain about 1-200 damage if you can confirm 2D(CH) > d.6C, but you lose roughly 5k if you can't.

0:47 - Whiffed MF; bad hitconfirm and easily punished.

1:14 - Random run-up 5D. Respect Arakune's cursing tools (clouds, floor bug (2D) etc.)

1:36 - Driving during curse. Be wary of bugs; block and try to poke out with normals rather than drives.

2:05 - Fenrir > j.A/5C/6C/j.B+C oki options. Empty grab isn't a good option.

2:07 - Bad use of 2D.

2:26~35 - Two j.Ds and lack of Spring Raid probably hurt the damage on that combo quite a bit.

2:46 - Run-up 5D approach. Not the best tactic to use in most situations.

2:55 - Random Thor; save your heat since there are much better things you can do with it (e.g. CA out of curse pressure) and it's unsafe too.

3:14~17 - 4D AA failed > 4D again beaten by 5D and put into curse > Bad burst > 4D again beaten by j.B. Why..?

3:23 - Waste of barrier. Use it just before a guard breaking move.

3:34 - CH OpticA > j.D. Seemed like nerves, but that's another 5k down the drain.

3:55 - See 2:55 on Random Thors.

I'm guessing you don't know the Arakune match-up very well because you were doing a few things, such as using drives while in curse, when you shouldn't have been. These issues seemed mostly match-up related, so just try and get some more experience fighting Arakune to work out what works and won't won't.

Your pressure game needs some work too; when you did run-up 5D, a 5A/B would have been a better option since it recovers faster and isn't as bad on block/whiff for example. You should also be trying to minimise the space Arakune has to work with by keeping close to him with 5A stagger pressure and try and keep him out of the air too since, once he's there, all his options will probably beat out any of Noel's. Also, when you're at full-screen and you want to hit an opponent with OpticC, make sure you do a small dash forwards before you do it as the blast will come just short if you don't (as seen at 2:42). You dropped a couple of big combo starters (2D, OpticA in the corner) so make sure you work on your hit-confirming as well.

Essentially, you want to be working on your pressure, optimising your combos and using drive less/in the right situations.

Edited by HexaNoid

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You would think with Hex posting so much advice in this thread that he would be more godlike :kitty:

But Azure, what he said essentially, if you have trouble with Arakune, go ask some questions in the Arakune match thread, it's what we have those threads for.

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You would think with Hex posting so much advice in this thread that he would be more godlike :kitty:

But Azure, what he said essentially, if you have trouble with Arakune, go ask some questions in the Arakune match thread, it's what we have those threads for.

He's too godlike for words. Going to another character sub forum (shivers in fear). Ill try. I had the nerves alot in that match, dropped alot of things and then just didn't know what to do outright against Arakune. I noted everything Hex listed out.

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I guess I'll put a couple of links in here from a GamingOttawa even I was at last weekend. I always get randomly nervous whenever money's involved and sometimes do things I shouldn't I know, but hey, I figured the 2 links and any advice could help. Only warning is that they were recorded using a digital camera off of an HD monitor. They're watchable of course, but because of it, there's a bit of glare. Any advice would be appreciated. Even if it's as extreme as "learn Noel all over again, now" lol. Also, I guess, advice for getting rid of tourney nerves would help too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnK-XiPVEBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PyyjgjhzQ

Thanks again.

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Tourney nerves you can only really limit by being exposed to the environment enough. There isn't any other way to tackle that problem otherwise. You can calm your nerves a bit by playing in casuals before the tourney starts, having music that you like to listen to, or even bringing something for good luck.

In regards to your actual play, you should really learn not to rely on drive so much. It seems like anytime there was dead space or neutral you pressed drive hoping to hit, especially with the random j.D's that didn't really have a purpose to them. Work on your normals game and pressure. You want to make the opponent work for their wins, and that includes understanding what they do when they are under pressure. Drives can only take you so far, but if you fight people that know when and how you want to drive, you will want to have a back-up plan that deals with normals so you can open up your drive game again.

Also, work on getting the optimal damage off your hits. Noel's basic BnB off 2D should be landing at 4.5-5k. And if you get those weird hits that seems difficult to complete a combo off of, try as best you can to finish it with any sort of damage. People get afraid of her raw damage that sometimes they blank out on resets that are either intentional or accidental. Use that to capitalize on your opponent and finish them off.

You don't always need to go into a full drive string either. There were so many times where you would throw out a CR starter and auto-piloted the combo, even if the drives didn't connect. Work on adapting and confirming whether the drives hit or not, and you can always use OB to end your drive strings semi-safely. Also, along with drive string limiations, you also shouldn't go from normals to drives too much either. Drives aren't good strings, and you should really only be using them sparingly. Stick with your normals until you can read what your opponent wants to do.

Edited by SkyKing

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Ooooooooooooook, so let's get started.

First point, j.D outside of combos? surely you're not thinking about using it against stronger players, are you? I hope not.

Second, 22B mash nets you soooooooooo much more heat and damage, you just can't afford not to use it, learn it ASAP. Even if you don't use optimal combos, you should at least include this in most of your midscreen stuff.

Third point, I know 2D and 4D both lead to tasty damage, but it's not like your thumb will go out of shape if you leave the D button alone for a few seconds. Random driving can and WILL get you killed. Bang could have 2D'd every single one of your failed driving attempts into 5k, luckily he didn't. My point is, D may look like a ticket out of everything and anything, but it's not (I know from experience). Use it sparingly, just like booze.

Fourth point, I'm actually surprised all of those blocked 3Cs went by unpunished. You shouldn't use it recklessly as it's OHMYGODLY risky.

Last but not least, since you seemed to be asking for it... LEARN NOEL ALL OVER AGAIN LOL. Nah, I won't go that far. Keep going at it with what I pointed out in mind and you'll probably do much better next time.

PS: Don't worry dude, I'm garbage lol.

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It's alright, Chiizu, I was expecting it. But yeah, a bit of the thing with nerves was that well, I found myself doing moves that I had no intention of doing. Like, as soon as those random j.D's came out, I was like "oh crap, oh crap" because I knew it was stupid. A lot of those dropped combos, namely the ones following a Muzzle Flitter were I'd have to guess from getting anxious and pressing the buttons too fast. Too many times, I found myself mashing 2B>6C so fast that either it'd skip over 2B entirely and just do 6C, or that the 6C would turn into 236C. Another thing I encountered was that I'd run into a situation where the Bang or the Makoto got knocked down by something and it'd be like...since I didn't expect them to I'd be like "wait, what?" and miss my combo opportunity. The same thing was the case when I'd wind up accidentally doing a 6D instead of either a Fenrir corner ender, or a j.D combo continuer too. So yeah...half of those Drives and random drives were me freaking out about things and my hands rebelling (it's actually funny you mentioned blanking out, because like I said, that was kinda what was happening).

It's weird, I know a bunch of normal gatlings, frame data, normal strings that lead INTO drive combos, throw combos, hell even some Astral setups (though I'm not going to pretend I can semi-consistently get off more than 1 rep of 66C>22B>66C with a lucky 2nd Haida thing), and do them without issue in practice, and even a bit so online (since well, I'm a 45 minute drive from the city so Online's my only way to play against people most of the time). It's just like...having someone actually there that I'm playing against in a tourney setting and being like "if I mess up, everyone's gonna laugh at me" just REALLY gets me sometimes. Thanks for the advice though.

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Nowadays, I use online more for gathering information rather than trying so hard to win. I'll just try something in training mode that I theorize and jump online to see if what I'm thinking of can work on most players. I'll go in with the mindset of knowing that combos will drop, and that I can always run it back because both players are in the same situation. Just keep an objective in mind while you play online and you should start seeing results. I'm also a netplay warrior because it's the only way I'll ever get the quality match-up experience that I'll need for getting better.

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Yeah, you've probably got a good point about netplay. I'm sure keeping an open mind helps a ton. If nothing else, it's half decent for learning to gauge what the general habits of people that play a certain character are.

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It's decent to learn matchups, but like I said in my video interview: "Fuck Netplay".

Anyways, these guys seemed to have gotten to you before I did so just follow what they said.

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Everyone else gave you advice on how to play, so Advice on tourney nerves.

My advice is to get yourself a pair of noise canceling/noise reducing headphones/earphones, and to wear them the entire time when you're there.

A good majority of tourney nerves happens before you even get up to play and it happens because of the environment.

The first time I went to Battle Arena Melbourne, By the time finals came up I was so stressed and so exhausted that I made countless errors and dropped more than my fair share of combos, but when I went to OHN:APAC, a comment made by someone about why Daigo would leave the room to go somewhere quiet after each match made me wonder if it was just the environment (Basically the comment was that he goes to a quiet room to meditate on his winning his next match). Then I saw for some of the Evo Qualifiers that he was wearing headphones during matches to block out the crowd.

For SLS2k11 I thought I'd try the headphone thing (I got the rubber stopper canal earphones) and spent the entire day playing with those. Even if I didn't have music playing, I'd still have them in and found that I didn't have any of the exhaustion despite my matches being significantly more stressful than at BAM.

So personally I think it might be an idea if you get yourself into a position where you can block out everything except for you, your opponent and the match. Don't think about what's on the line. Don't think about if the other player is better than you or not. Focus on what Noel can do and what Your opponent can do and you should win - Sun Tzu. Well actually the quote is "If you know your self and know your enemy, in 100 battles you shall never lose", but I don't think people really grind out everything Noel can do, and that quote also means you need to have a good read on your opponent. But you're not going to be able to read your opponent if you're scared of them, you can't read them if you don't understand their character and if you're getting distracted, which at a large event will have a lot of distracting background noise, you will likely either have too much CPU usage that its slow or your opponent's download data might get corrupted. Even if you don't pay attention to the noise, its still physically there and your brain will still process it subconsciously.

Personally, if they invent indoor sunglasses that only allow the light frequency of a television/monitor through and darken out other light sources, I'd buy those too even if they were $500

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tl;dr - Focus on your match not your surroundings and do anything you can (using noise-cancelling headphones, meditation etc.) in order to do so.

Don't forget that some people (such as myself) react to sound effects when playing and so wearing headphones can often be a hindrance more than a help. The way I got over tourney nerves was simply going to as many as possible; after a while, I just got used to the situation and was eventually able to block out all unnecessary distractions while playing.

Basically, make sure you try all kinds of methods to get over your nerves, but if none of them work don't be discouraged; you may find the best method doesn't actually require you to do anything special at all.

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For myself, I like to go around talking to people. It doesn't have to be about the game either, although most of the time it will be. I feel more relaxed when I can socialize at the tournament since it doesn't feel like I'm being alienated or left out of things.

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I get rid of tourney nerves by telling myself I suck and that I WILL lose the next match, this may sound silly but it got me second at a major :P

The idea is that if you are hard on yourself like that, the second you win your first match all of your nerves disappear, I can't say why that is but this has been the case for me, and the only time my nerves came back was when I had to fight HeartNana in finals due to him kinda being like a hero figure for me early on, I couldn't even do the standard Noel BnB off of drive it was so bad :|

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Don't get me wrong, I react to sounds as well. Noise canceling REDUCES noise, it doesn't cut it out completely. What you want is to filter out the bulk of that noise so that your brain can focus better. That's why I said Noise canceling without music. Makes a deal of difference.

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