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LightAdvent

[CS2] Platinum vs. Tsubaki

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Discuss useful strategies against Tsubaki here! I'll try and keep this updated with your suggestions and my own data at the least twice a weak.Seriously people there has to be something to say about our friend Tsubaki right? Feel free to throw up a post with your own data and speculation and i'll add it to the main post!

Platinum's matchup vs. Tsubaki is 5.0 which is good but don't get too ecstatic about it...

Punishes:Okay some basic punishes on Tusbaki are: Any whiffed 6C's as that has much recovery, after a whiffed 6c Platinum could just use Mami Circular and continue pressure and what not. 6a whiffed is highly punishable its really slow to come out after the whiff follow ups with 5c Mami and continue pressure however should the 6a be blocked you will need to mash out a 5a because she'll go onto 5c most of the time on block to pressure. You should pressure and punish Tsubaki whenever she has no charges because she wont have any of those pesky "D" version side-effects benefitting her. 22a,b,c,d are all pretty much safe on block or whiff, and depending on your range throw out a mami circular or 5b/c.

Anti_airs:I've seen that mystique momo works well to get those certain Tsubakis who like to jump up and charge. 6a,6c all work fine and 6c can set up overheads and pressure. Standard stuff Tsubaki only has one move (jcc) that she can come down on you from the air with.

Zoning:Tsubaki should be relatively easy to zone as she is rush-down and has no projectiles so the safest bet for zoning Tsubaki are mystique Momo'd(214D) Cat Missiles and Bombs as well as the cat hammer(be careful with the cat hammer as it takes a few frames to come out) Zoning Tsubaki is crucial because it will prevent her from getting any preliminary charges out.

Basic Strategy: If you play too defensive Tsubaki will be able to accumulate charges quickly with her new and improved 5d and with at least 1 charge any Tsubaki should be able to dish out upwards of 3000 damage. So basic pressure combos like 5b 5c mami 5d which will give you an item to zone with.Yes I'll admit I did not notice how fast she is, so your main choice of play style is simply to wait for her to mess up a blocked close 22x can be confirmed with your 5a or a blocked 236x well not 236d are decent openings. Remember she has great mix up so keep calm and wait

Item Strategy:

Missiles and Bombs: used primarily for zoning purposes keeping Tsubaki at bay and preventing charging. Exercise caution with these don't throw them out at random

Cat Hammer: used for zoning and getting overheads not much else in my book, but if anyone has better suggestions post away

Hammer: quake affect on the 16t hammer will allow you to get in but the hammer should be saved for combos

The Bat: fairly useful as a pseudo counter-assault to get Tsubaki off of your case preventing any big combos.

Misc. Details

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I've been fighting Tsubaki vs. Plat very frequently as of late. I'm not that great of a player, so anyone can feel free to correct me on things. It seems at max range Plat's 5B will beat out hers clean. However you don't want to challenge her within range of her 5B because I'm pretty damn sure hers is faster, so you'll get CH'd out of yours instead even if you both 5B at the same time. After that she can get some nasty damage in. So staying away from her is definitely your best bet. Only downside to this is that from this distance you won't always be quite close enough to gatling your 5B into 5C > mami, so you won't be able to shove her away unless you have meter to RC Fallen Melody after a 3C.

I only try to close in on her if I have something to cover me with. Missiles are good for trying to close distance since they start off slow and you can run in with them. If you don't have any projectiles handy, B bubble sometimes also works for me to help keep safe and I wanna close in for pressure, trying to hold onto my momentum. But it's really no where near as good as missiles are for this purpose. Don't rush in too close if you use the bubble though...her 5B has more range than it looks like. Her 5B hurts.

Bombs keep her from jumping in on you (keeps just about anyone from doing so really) and cat hammer is really good for shutting down her charging. I find that if you find yourself close enough to her after she uses a bnb into a knockback so she can charge, if you're fast you can sometimes tech roll towards her, and if she doesn't expect it you can 5B CH her out of it if she gets too greedy and charges for too long. If you're not close enough you can cat hammer her to stop the charge. This is something you really shouldn't use unless she's definitely not expecting it though, as I'm sure it's really punishable, but mixing up things once in awhile isn't always a bad idea.

I also don't really suggest using the hammer in this matchup outside of combos at all really. Even though the 16t hammer quake goes full screen, it's not worth it for the damage or heat you need to get it unless you're just trying to run the clock, or keep her off the ground.

Just my observations on this matchup so far. Though again, I'm still a newb with Plat so anyone with more exp. feel free to correct whatever.

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This right here is gold. Nice writeup Solar. I must try some of this later.

Btw does plat 2b beat tsubakis 5b? I figured it lowers her hitbox so maybe it goes under it?

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A few comments:

Tsubaki's 5B is much faster than yours. If you want to play poking, you'll need to space very carefully.

While you can punish whiffed 6Cs, no Tsubaki who isn't a total idiot is going to be throwing that move out randomly. It's mostly a combo tool, though sometimes some players will sneak it into a blockstring and then jump cancel it. Trying to punish that with a Mami Circular will probably get you airblocked and hurt.

6A is technically negative on block, but gatlings into 5C for continued pressure. Attempting to punish this move after blocking it are not going to end well for you. Either ride out the whole blockstring, or try to jab her out of the startup, because once it makes contact, even if you block, you're in for pressure. (6A > 5C© > optional 6B > optional 22C or dash up 2A.)

Be careful of just rushing in behind your missiles (or even bombs) or getting predictable with cat hammer. Smart Tsubaki players can use her 214X series to go through these moves and score a counterhit.

Be careful being predictable with bombs. Tsubaki can 236C/D you on reaction if you throw them out on the ground. (Since the bombs go up in an arc, she'll zip right under them and hit you before they land.)

Most Tsubaki players will try to approach on the ground - she's not particularly strong in the air, so you can avoid a lot of stuff by staying airborne, but be wary of air throws and letting her predict where you're going to land.

I wouldn't really suggest trying to 'zone' her - she's very mobile - so your best bet is probably going to be hovering around the edge of 5B/3C range and trying to score a knockdown so you can start pressure. Tsubaki doesn't have a lot of options at that range, but watch out for random 22X moves, as they have slightly more reach than her 5B. The A version comes out very fast (faster than your 5B, actually) though its -9 on block, if it's used near max range is very hard to punish.

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Thanks for the posts people I'll add this in. I didn't have much play data since I only seem to play scrubby Tsubakis. Thanks In particular to Airk

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I had forgotten for a very long time that this matchup even existed. What's the best response to her charge 22D after a combo/knockdown? Assuming Plat is in the corner (can't backdash out of range) and she does from outside of Platinum's 5A range? Does a backdash have enough invincibility to get through it?

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Normally 5C and 2B will catch her during a 22D charge on wakeup, but if you deley your tech too long only super jumping will work. One of the most useful ways to get out of 22D Oki is to do sj.2C because it'll take you straight back down to punish her, or at least start pressure if she's recovered.

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If Tsubaki is doing 22D after the right kind of knockdown, none of those attacks will work, nor will jumping out. Backdash might, but the safest method is to delay your tech so that 22D goes through you as you are getting up. If you tech ASAP on instinct, you're in trouble.

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1. Treat this match like its Ragna and approach carefully, Tsubaki's 5B is a tough customer with it coming out really fast and being +1, You don't want her to have time to charge so learn how to use your items as is, don't try to sit around too much and cycle through your items only after knockdown or mid combo.

2. Punishes: Only punish badly used specials and whiffed pokes, It's not a lot you can easily punish because of how slow your normals are.

3. Your anti-airs are obviously mystic momo, bombs, 2C, and 6A, 2C being the strongest to use here but don't count on it.

4. Basic strategy: Rush it down and hard, you don't want her to charge and Plats movement is good enough to keep Tsubaki on her toes, if you see she has meter then don't stay on the ground for too long, Tsubaki's "charging stars" Has frame advantage on the D version, you don't want to be stuck blocking Tsubaki as mush as she wants not deal with you rushing her down, bait the DP because all Tsu's do it and punish it accordingly, Tsubaki is definitely someone you can't play footsies with.

5. Item strategy: Missiles are great since she actually has no choice but to move out the way and put herself in a uncomfortable possition.

Bombs are ok on knock down and when she is in the air, terrible in neutral where her charging stars (shield charge) will beat you.

Hammer is ok here, mostly for the boring use of primer breaking, beating AA's, and damage.

Frying pan is ok but not as useful as cat hammer, good for instant overheads though, again same old use.

Baseball bat is a great tool, Tsubaki's charge cancel pressure pretty much gets swatted unless Tsubaki plays it safe meaning you can get back on the offense, or else you slap her with it.

Cat hammer is pretty good here, beats out her ground stuff and lets you hit her from further away when she wants to air charge, I find it the most useful item here since it can be used as to keep her mindful on charging.

Your main goal is to beat Tsubaki and beat her fast, you seriously don't want to let her have more than 1 bar or that means trouble.

That's about it from my experience.

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