[CSE] Rachel Mixup/Pressure Compendium

[kotokot]

go into training%)

after 3C you can try 2d j.A 2A. And you have pumpkin, lol.

ending with 5CC does works in most cases, in your case it's just repeat proration. You can try to substitute second 5CC with j.2C lv2.

and remember about tech options, after 3C he can use emergency roll and later other tech options, after 5CC he can use any roll and in some cases he can't use quick roll.

[[SpA]Relentless]

Safejump Setup against Ragna

In the corner (this is an example combo to give you an idea at which height have to hit with j.2C):

6A, 5B, j.B, j.C, dj.2C, j.214B, then as you fall to the ground do j.B, then barrier block

If Ragna emergency techs and does wakeup ID, you can block in time and punish.

If he neutral techs, you can still wind down pumpkin to safely bait a DP.

If he blocks low, j.B will hit him, go into a combo.

If he blocks high, do the usual pressure. A nice trick would be 5B, frog, then 2D to wind the pumpkin down. This is a pretty tempting situation for the opponent to try and mash out :>

[gli]

Video of this would be nice. I can't get this to work properly.

[[SpA]Relentless]

I'll see if I can get to play Extend today, if not I'll record it at Saturday.

Edit: Okay, I just tested it again and sadly it's not legit.

It only 'works' if you do j.B really high, but then it whiffs on crouchers (even if noone would block low in that situation probably).

If you do it lower, ID hits you. I guess I wasn't hitting reversal timing when i tested it at first.

Better do normal oki

[gli]

Ah so I wasn't the only one. Sad day :<

Normal ID bait works yeah. Just that, this theoretical setup would be windless which makes it really good.

[gli]

Well, my turn to post my lab findings. Whether or not what I find is good I don't particular mind at this point. I just want to experiment.

Simple rod setup in corner.

Setup

Rod is placed in corner that's within the endpoints of a front roll tech.

Execution

5CC in corner and time a TK iris that's just out of throw range and have it recover just before a DP can come out. Then just guard and react to what your opponent does.

What this does

Baits DP, throw safe, punishes no tech / backroll / front roll options are limited (depends on where the rod is placed). Keeps opponent in corner.

Just another setup to keep in mind. Sometimes you want to change what you do to keep opponent guessing. Mostly your opponent might get comfortable by seeing the same 5CC > okizeme or 3C > okizeme stuff so this is something else to think about.

[Rele]

Windless j.A IOH on at least Hakumen and Tager, saw it in a video somewhere:

dash, rising j.A, j.2C, V, 5BD, combo of choice

Dash momentum is necessary or else j.2C pushes you too far for 5B to connect. You'll still need one wind to combo afterwards (unless a rod happens to be placed on the opponent, then you can 5B, iris and do a short ender), but it's still neat and also does more damage than the j.2AD, j.B route because of better damage and proration. Just don't do a j.2C(Lv2) combo afterwards.

Most likely not safe on block/gapless though, so be cautious.

[TD]

that has been known since ct when msy put it in his cmv. l know because msy da bess rachel ever. l personally have been using it on those two since ct myself, bar cs1.

in fact, best time to use this is in the corner after a frog knockdown for a windless option:

(frog oki, foe neutral techs)(5b) j.a j.2c* 5c1dc 236b dash 5cc dash 3c(1) 214c 3c frog oki

-use this combo so you wont incur repeat proration from the j.2c. l usually don't extend the combo using bbl, as using j.2c early limits your best damaging option.

[TD]

lol, 5 mins of training mode gave me this

DOUBLE FUZZYGUARD SETUP (yep... double.)

...5b 2d j.a j.b dj.b j.a j.b j.a land (669) j.a j.2c3d.

this is for those faggots who like to block all of our mixup and make us feel bad. well those days are over!

before you land, you MUST do an overhead (sadly, j.c isn't one) as with all fuzzies. unfortunately, this means that the setup isn't entirely gapless with j.a(-1, -4 IB), but doing j.b before you land should work just fine, l haven't tried that yet.

if this gets blocked j.2c3d allows you to keep pressure.

lastly, there are a few other options if you dont want to do the double fuzzy. here they are:

(after dj.b j.a j.b)

-...j.a j.214b land

-...j.a j.214a 3d 5bb 236a* j.b j.c/j.[c] mixup

-...j.a land 66 throw (very fast and will always be green)

-...j.a land 2b/3c

[TD]

some more mixups

any normal - 2dRC j.a - 50 heat IOH from ANY attack. you must input 2d, then rc immediately after. really good after 2b, i'm thinking of using this setup vs seasoned players.

6c 3drc land 2b (l feel like this may have been posted before, perhaps a variation)

5b sj2c rc airdash j2c4d OR airbackdash j2c6d (left/right 50/50?)

5b(5d) j2c rc airdash j.a j.b j.a (this probably makes the above mixup less useful)

(corner preferred) 5b j236c rc dash j.a j.b j.a or land 2b

midscreen george oki (foe techs) 2a 5b 236a4d* IAD j214c(do after george is finished for a +24 crossup)

l was gonna save these for my next cmv but fuck it, here they are. l have a few more but i'll save them for another time.

[gamester]

I'm still learning to do mix ups and actually trying to execute them in matches but could a winded 6C > j.C > 2D > 9jc > j.A > j.B > 5A (5B) be considered a mix up of some form? Uses 2 wind. I wait near-ish to the end of winded 6C before I do the j.C > 2D.

Think I've written it properly. Not sure if I've explained it very well but it seems to work for me when I've used it on training mode. Thought I'd make a post and see what people think overall. I'm still not experianced at these sort of things

[Sakaku]

It's definitely a mix-up. But 6C on block isn't the best thing you could do, given that you consume 1 wind and your opponent gets a massive amount of heat when IB'ing it. On the other hand, if that really works (no reason it shouldn't), it might catch most of the people off guard. Just keep in mind that there is a gap between the j.C and the 2D j.A.

[gamester]

Thanks for clarifying that with me and letting my know about the gap. I suppose I'll use it sparingly as a once every so often thing then

[Prestizi]

Guys, can i get a detailed micro-guide-explanation on how to properly do instant overhead pressure strings? On viable targets i can do gapless 5b -> j.a, but i have several issues

1. Often i get a superjump which ruins things

-> How/when should i be inputting the wind? Any tips on how to do it so this doesn't happen?

2. Often even if i land a hit, the j.b wont connect properly or the animation gets cancelled entirely or something else

-> Is it because im inputting the j.a a bit too late or something? ( I might be... i play against a local hazama lot so im in the habit of delaying )

3. I have no idea how to do the fuzzy block version where rachel JC's and does more j. attacks

• Does this require 2 winds or can it be done with just the initial wind?
  
• If its 1 wind, how/when do i input the wind such that it carries over into this?
  
• When should i JC?
  
• Are there any points in time where i should be delaying any inputs at all?
  
• Can i get some examples of practical strings to try for this?
  
• Can it be done on exceptions like hazama? What do i have to change?
  
• Are there any exceptions for doing this that aren't already an exception for gapless instant overhead?
  

[KoopaDoopa]

Guys, can i get a detailed micro-guide-explanation on how to properly do instant overhead pressure strings? On viable targets i can do gapless 5b -> j.a, but i have several issues

1. Often i get a superjump which ruins things

-> How/when should i be inputting the wind? Any tips on how to do it so this doesn't happen?

The easiest solution would be to practice 5B j.2DA (Press 2D after you jump.) This also helps against opponents who react to 2D itself.

2. Often even if i land a hit, the j.b wont connect properly or the animation gets cancelled entirely or something else

-> Is it because im inputting the j.a a bit too late or something? ( I might be... i play against a local hazama lot so im in the habit of delaying )

It depends on the character. Against most characters you can instantly j.A. Some crouching hitboxes though are stupid... Off the top of my head they are Litchi, Noel, Hazama, and Rachel. You have to slightly delay j.A vs. all of them (correct me if I'm wrong.) Against them I usually use j.2DB as a more stable confirm. This problem is fixed in CP, where j.A hits gapless on everyone.

3. I have no idea how to do the fuzzy block version where rachel JC's and does more j. attacks

• Does this require 2 winds or can it be done with just the initial wind?
  
• If its 1 wind, how/when do i input the wind such that it carries over into this?
  
• When should i JC?
  
• Are there any points in time where i should be delaying any inputs at all?
  
• Can i get some examples of practical strings to try for this?
  
• Can it be done on exceptions like hazama? What do i have to change?
  
• Are there any exceptions for doing this that aren't already an exception for gapless instant overhead?
  

Fuzzy guard works when you have downwards momentum from the first jump and 2D. Easy fuzzy guard that works on most characters: (blocked) j.2DA>j.B>JC>j.AA>j.B>j.C>whatever.

It only requires one wind to do. As I said before, input j.2DA to get the momentum of 2D. Usually, you JC after j.B (Or you can do j.AA>jC>j.A, or j.A>j.C>JC>j.A). Practice until you can land and do dash 5A after the fuzzy guard.

With exceptions like Hazama, I recommend doing j.2DB into fuzzy guard. It's slower, but the fuzzy guard works the same after that. Not quite sure what you mean by the last point... If you mean is there any reason not to use it, I'd say go for it a lot because once the opponent starts to respect it, Rachel's mixup becomes a lot scarier (as if it wasn't already!). You can start doing j.2DA>j.B>throw or j.2DA>j.B>2B... The possibilities are almost endless~

[Rele]

Fuzzy works on everyone if they block the first overhead string since they're standing (which makes the fuzzy work in the first place). The problem with 5B j.2DB dj.A-B-C is that the first j.B isn't easily hitconfirmable, and if they get hit and you jc anyway, your fuzzy string will whiff. Ideal fuzzy string on normal size chars would be 5B j.2DA-B dj.A-B-C.

Often even if i land a hit, the j.b wont connect properly or the animation gets cancelled entirely or something else

-> Is it because im inputting the j.a a bit too late or something? ( I might be... i play against a local hazama lot so im in the habit of delaying )

If you input j.A too late, you might be too low to get j.B out in time. If you have to delay because of Hazama, do j.A-A instead, since j.A comes out faster. You'll ruin proration even more though so opt for a short combo.

For everything else, what Koopa said.

[gamester]

I've been used to doing 5B > j.a > 2D > j.b (If my writing makes any sense) however I tried doing 2D after jumping before inputting my j.a like mentioned above.

I'm working to try and not use my current method of j.a then 2D so much and trying it the other way around. I'm finding it tougher as I'm not used to it but I'm working my head around it in parts. So I'm getting used to doing "5B > Jump > 2D" then I'll move onto the rest of the possible mix-ups. I think that's the best way to tackling this as I'm finding it awkward myself to input everything correctly, I hope I just get used to it in the end

I assume the 2D before the j.a makes it look like it hits lower but still functions as a overhead than doing 2D after j.a it looks like it hits higher. <--- Does this sound about right. I'm not very good at explaining things so I offer my apologies in advance.

[Prestizi]

Thanks a lot guys, that clears up a lot!

[Prestizi]

Another question:

How do i punish barrier usage?

Or basically how do i make use of instant overhead against people who tend to use barrier against the JCable stuff, or against the IO strings in general. But i'm also wondering if there's a way to discourage heavy barrier usage or punish it. Or what is the reason why people aren't using barrier all day against key points in strings to mess them up?

[TD]

If the foe likes to barrier, there are are few things that you can do.

Wind yourself back in - this can be done off of 5a/5b or any of her normals. In 5a/5b's case, they are jump cancellable. A quick 5b j3d will get you up close and personal, allowing for more pressure. You can also 5d3c back in for a +1, or Kara throw yourself back in using bcd, from most of her normals.

Go for a mixup - once you are in (or back in), 5a is a great starter as it is jc able leading into a 50/50 (barrier makes 5a ja gapless, 2b/3c are already gapless) and plenty of other options. It does not push you as far as 5b either.

Another thing to note is that once the foe is barrier blocking he is most likely too preoccupied or locked in block stun to retaliate. In that sense, barrier makes them more prone to slower mixups. 4b, empty jump 2b, 214b, and tk George can all work reasonably well if used quickly and effciently. Throw also works well because if they are OS barrier throw teching, you will get a throw reject miss.

Stagger pressure if a form of mixup that alters the timing of your strings so that the foe doesn't predict where to dp or whatever. 2aa dash works well, or any two attacks in which the second attack isn't ridiculously minus on block. This also works well as a frame trap.

Drain their barrier- this method isn't too great unless they are holding barrier, or their barrier gauge is low. 3[c]5d and 6cd work wonders here as they eat barrier like its cake. Both of these moves are + in this case, allowing for additional pressure.

*Warning: only use 6cd sparingly. You give your foe a TON of heat if they know to instant block it. Even if they don't, it takes one accidental IB and the rest of the attack gets IB'd as well.

Use the spacing to your advantage- this is probably the hardest one, and the most worth it. Besides making most of her more unsafe strings possible (like making pumpkin summon more safe mid-string), some windless options are allowed too. A lobelia is + on block the farther away you are from the foe, and grants you a pole. B lobelia is slow but with the foe barrier blocking, they are probably trying to jump out. They will run right into the lobelia and get sent back to the ground with you on their heels. IAD j.abc will get you in at certain ranges and might crossup should the foe not choose to stand or jump. Finally, you can use the extra blockstun and the space created to get away and start zoning.

I definitely went overboard trying to answer this question! Hopefully it was a help.

[Prestizi]

No, thank you very much. I was looking for a comprehensive answer just like that one, since I really have no ideas/experience in the various ways of dealing with it.

[TD]

So some of you guys may already know this, but rachel is the only character in the game who can move in areas where other characters cannot. An example of this would be neutral tech wind.

This applies to air bursts. Have you ever fought a lambda player? Then, you know how frustrating that matchup can be. Have you ever been caught in one of her many DDDDDDDDD combos and tried to burst in the air, only to completely whiff the burst and remain vulnerable to those merciless swords?

That time is over. During air bursts, particularly after higher air burst, you can wind away right after the recovery ends, only a few frames after the burst animation. You can wind in any of the 8 directions, but 5/4d is recommended. Why? You'll get maximum space after the burst without going too high, and the downward winds put you near the same spot, making you an easy target.

What keeps this from being a gimmick is that, you can wind anywhere. If your foe expects it and runs to one side in anticipation, you can wind to the other, completely safe. Just remember, she cannot do anything until she reaches the ground after bursting. Either way this trick might save your ass a few good times, so practice up!

[gamester]

Going back to the CP general discussion thread about gimmick and trick talk and whatnot. Would using Sword Iris (ground) then winding a pumpkin 7/8/9 directions (or possibly even 4/6) be considered one of those for Rachel doesn't seem move with the wind direction when she is doing Sword Iris animation.

(I'm not very good at explaining this very well sorry)

[TD]

You're asking if it is a gimmick? It is not. However, it's going to be hard confirming those pumpkin hits.

[gamester]

Fair enough, just thought I'd through it out there as I was curious