[VS] Jedah: Night of the Demon

[doragonkoroshi]

I guess this is the Jedah thread now. Originally it was a thread about fighting the Taliban, but I guess Kyle thought I should be in charge of the Jedah thread. I'm a little nervous about having first post responsibilities, because I'm a new player and a bad player, but I'll try to compensate by copy/pasting a bunch of stuff from the wiki. One secret I know with Jedah is that if you hit mp (or strong) when you pick him, you get the red color, which is his best color.

If the next couple posts don't make sense to you, it's because I originally just asked some advice for beating the dog (Taliban). They are, however, very important, because if you pick up Jedah, and play against the dog, you will feel very sad and feel like quitting this game. Don't though. People are telling me it's possible to beat him somehow.

Good players:

Oouchi and Shimatsuya are good Jedah players. (You might even call them "Jedah masters.") I did not scrutinize the videos I chose, they're just examples, but there are loads of videos of them on youtube.

Now to quote the wiki:

Character Overview

Jedah Doma, the Black Messiah. Jedah is widely considered to be one of the more handicapped characters in the cast, with his low speed and particularly bad counter-matchups. However, he also comes with a set of tools that are unique only to him, and playing to the character's strengths can compensate for his short-comings. In the hands of an experienced player, Jedah can be quite overwhelming. He excels at rushdown mixups, but is also a rather solid mid-range zoner and footsies character. His primary weakness, or perhaps his only weakness, may be the lack of a solid defensive game and lack of reliable knockdown moves.

Primary objective: Airdash mixups, ground dash mixups.

Now, in the below list of moves, you'll see that some of the frame data has a section that says "renda." What this refers to, is something called "renda bonus," which is a thing in Vampire Savior where you actually get added frame advantage by linking a light attack into itself. So, if I do a crouching lk with Jedah, I normally get +5 on block, but if I link another crouching lk after, I instead get +8 frames. This does not keep adding up. I can't get +11 if I link another one or anything like that. Renda bonus is important, because Jedah's dash mixup using dash mk and dash hk for crossup is easier to set up when you have more frame advantage. The earlier your opponent gets out of block/hit stun, the easier it is to poke you out of the sky and make you sad. I point this out to all who read this, because for the first few weeks I played this game, nobody told me about renda bonus and was just yelling at me to do Jedah's mixup more, and I was like I'M TRYING TO BUT I KEEP GETTING POKED OUT YOU GUYS ARE MEAN!!!! Once I found out about renda bonus, the extra frame advantage made it much easier to maintain pressure and do mixup. NEED CONFIRMATION ON THE FOLLOWING: As I understand it, if I link one light attack into a different light attack, I will not get the renda bonus. It has to be the same attack twice. (right?)

Moves (you should really go to the wiki to view the hitboxes on these):

Standing:

LP

[ Startup: 4 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 | Renda: H:+9 B:+8 ]

Jab. Whiffs small crouching characters.

MP

[ Startup: 10 | Hit:-1 | Block:-2 ]

High claw. Whiffs small crouching characters. Good for stopping jumps on their way up, dashes, and hops. Also good to guard-break with, particularly after ES Wheel in lieu of 214P.

HP

[ Startup: 9 | Hit:-13 | Block:-14 ]

High hands. First couple hits whiffs small crouching characters but the third hit will connect with most crouching characters. This move is ridiculously bad on hit or block, but the range is pretty decent.

LK

[ Startup: 5 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 | Renda: H:+9 B:+8 ]

Wing tap. Excellent move. Large frame advantage on hit or block and is chainable into itself. Great for ticking.

MK

[ Startup: 7 | Hit:+1 | Block:0 ]

Blood slap. Deceptively good on hit and block, and it's his fastest mid-strength attack on startup.

HK

[ Startup: 35 | Hit: Knockdown | Block:-7 ]

Scythe. Hits overhead and can't be airblocked. Unfortunately it's incredibly slow startup speed makes it rather useless. Though it can occasionally tag unsuspecting enemies, use sparringly.

Crouching:

c.LP

[ Startup: 5 | Hit:+7 | Block:+6 | Renda: H:+10 B:+9 ]

Crouch jab. Pretty standard for a crouching jab, hits mid, good speed, rewards the most frame advantage out of any of his light attacks, chains into it self. Useful for ticking and keeping people off of you.

c.MP

[ Startup: 12 | Hit:+1 | Block: 0 ]

Low claw. Poor startup speed make this less useful than it initially seems. It's got a nice hitbox but he has other moves that do the same things but better.

c.HP

[ Startup: 10 | Hit:-18 | Block:-19 ]

Low hands. Like the standing version this is really poor on hit and block. The main use of it is the range, but that's about it.

c.LK

[ Startup: 6 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 | Renda: H:+9 B:+8 ]

Low wing. Good range and speed, good frame advantage, hits low, chains into itself. Primarily this will be your mixup tool when varied between dash attacks and other overheads.

c.MK

[ Startup: 12 | Hit:+1 | Block: 0 ]

Blood spout. Arguably Jedah's best anti-air. This move also hits low, despite not looking like it should. It's also deceptively safe on block/hit. The only down side is the startup speed, but in general this is one of Jedah's most valuable moves.

c.HK

[ Startup: 18 | Hit:-6 | Block:-7 ]

Blood pool. This also hits low, but does not cause a knockdown on hit. It's disadvantageous on hit/block but not nearly as bad as HP/c.HP, thus when hitting with a chain this is the ideal ender. On block you may want to forgo the c.HK in order to maintain neutral/advantage.

Jumping:

j.LP

[ Startup: 6 ]

Jumping jab. Standing jumping jab, useful in air strings and rushdown pressure.

j.MP

[ Startup: 9 ]

Jumping claw. Huge hitbox, though unfortunately huge hittable box as well, making it less useful than it initially seems. Despite that, it's still quite good and special cancelable off a normal jump or air dash.

j.HP

[ Startup: 9 ]

Jumping hands. This is significantly more useful than the standing or crouching versions because while it retains the range, the recovery is neutralized by landing. Thus, backdash j.HP and backdash airdash j.HP and whiff j.HK j.HP become a lot more useful than the standing or crouching version.

j.LK

[ Startup: 5 ]

High wing. The hitbox on this is quite high, making it whiff air to ground a lot. But, the recovery is also good so it's still useful for rushdown and mixup sequences, perhaps moreso simply because it whiffs.

j.MK

[ Startup: 7 ]

Downward wing. Exceptionally good hitbox for a jump-in attack. Extremely useful for general purpose air to ground. Not so great for air to air battles, however.

j.HK

[ Startup: 11 ]

Blood sprites. This move is one of Jedah's main gimmicks. It will halt his air trajectory which is very useful for aerial footsies and general positioning. It also hits all around his knees, which is great for left/right mixups. It also doesn't inflict much (if any) hit-stop which makes it also extremely good at high/low mixups. By far one of his best mixup tools and general purpose moves.

Command Normals:

P Throw: Pretty decent normal throw. Knocks the opponent a good distance on tech or no-tech. Preferable option-select is with MP, since HP is just a generally-terrible move.

Air Throw: Jedah's jump arc is quite huge and floaty, making it difficult to land this airthrow. Not a particularly outstanding one, either, though useful in certain situations.

Pursuit: Scythe wheel bounce. This places Jedah on the opposite side of the opponent that he started on, which is one of the few pursuits that do so. Thus, it's important not to use this if it will end up putting you with your back to the corner, though on the other hand it's also useful for escaping the corner.

Specials:

Dio Sehga - 236P (air):

Scythe wheel. Hits 3 times. Knocks down airborne opponents. One of his main zoning tools.

(L Version) Low to the ground.

(M Version) Mid level.

(H Version) High.

(ES Version) Hits more times, persists once it leaves Jedah's hands and forms the wheel. Somewhat useful for rushdown strings.

Air:

(L Version) High in the air.

(M Version) Mid level.

(H Version) Low to the ground.

(ES Version) Highs more times, persists once it leaves Jedah's hands and forms the wheel.

Nero Fatica - 214P:

Claw swipe. Unblockable "hit" type move. Whiffs most crouching characters, but because it can not be blocked it is useful as a mid-range and anti-air tool in some situations.

(L Version) Short pullback.

(M Version) Medium pullback.

(H Version) Long pullback.

(ES Version) Adds additional hits and damage, significant pullback.

Ira Spinta - 624K (air) /~P:

Dive/Scythe Dive. An aerial command grab type of move if left uncancelled. It has large startup, but once it begins it can grab grounded or airborne opponents. This move is also marginally controllable by holding back or forwards before and during the dive. Alternately you can cancel this move into a scythe-wheel dive rather than the grab dive by pushing punch during the startup.

(L Version) Short range.

(M Version) Medium range.

(H Version) Far range.

(ES Version) Far range, adds additional damage.

Scythe:

(L Version) Short range.

(M Version) Medium range.

(H Version) Far range.

(ES Version) Far range, adds additional hits and damage.

Splecio - 623P (GC):

Self-decapitation. This is Jedah's guard cancel move that he can only perform as a GC. It's invulnerable up until the first active frame, which makes it rather useful as a GC. Unfortunately it does have somewhat slow startup. And the recovery speed is quite horrible. Plus it can whiff small characters like crouching Q-Bee. Not the best GC in the world but still rather useful for punishing predictable/laggy moves.

(Any Version) Each strength is identical in form and function.

(ES Version) More hits, damage, and range.

San Bassale - 624K (close):

Command throw. Unfortunately Jedah's command throw has rather slow startup speed compared to other standard command throws, the range is also hardly noteworthy, and it is not invulnerable on startup. The damage is also nothing spectacular. The only real advantage to this is that it can't be tech hit like normal throws. Perhaps one other slight advantage to this is that it can be useful with his kicks as an option-select, since his kick attacks are just barely better than his punch attacks. Use sparingly. It is not ES-able.

(MK Version) Slow speed, no inv.

(HK Version) Same as above.

Supers:

Prova di Servo - 426KK ~K (unblockable): Contract super. When first activated a blood sprite will fly from Jedah's slit wrist along the ground and will do nothing until either K is pressed again or the sprite leaves the screen. When K is pressed a second time it will activate a blood hand which is unblockable. If it grabs a grounded opponent it will slam them into a contract for massive damage. Quite useful if treated like a "command throw super". Though, it has quite the vulnerable whiff animation if the grab fails or is left uncancelled.

Finale Rosso - 22P (unblockable): Blood pit. This auto-targets the opponent and opens a portal below them, this is unblockable and will drag the opponent down for an auto-combo and decent damage. The startup is somewhat significant and it has a very poor recovery time if it fails to catch the opponent. It can be useful for punishing full-screen shenanigans, but other than that the Contract super tends to be marginally more useful.

Dark Force:

Santo Ario - Same strength P + K

(Any Version) Enables Jedah free-action flying. During this mode he can move around in the air freely and chain his air attacks. His landing has no recovery and there is no recovery on deactivation.

Movement:

Walk: Medium walk speed, tall character.

Dash: A ground-to-air dash, aka "flight" dash. Both his forward and backward dashes take him into the air where he can perform jumping attacks. A major tool in his high/low rushdown game. Another advantage to this kind of dash, apart from very fast overheads, is that it can dodge low attacks and if you're hit out of the air you will be reset rather than getting full-comboed. If Jedah crosses over (or under) the opponent he will auto-correct to face the opponent which also makes this extremely useful for left/right mixups.

Jump: Particularly high and floaty jump. However, this works more to Jedah's advantage when varied with his other movement tools. His high arc can put him in a good position for airdashing over people, poking, and setting up scythe wheels. His j.HK is also good for modifying his trajectory, especially since you can attack after a j.HK whiff.

Air Dash: One of the four characters in the game to posses an air dash. Like QB, Jedah can only airdash forwards. However, Jedah's airdash is unique in that the flying animation also contains a hitbox that can attack the opponent. This will knock down an airborne opponent. Jedah's airdash also allows him to special cancel his air normals. And, like his ground dash, if Jedah crosses over (or under) the opponent he will auto-correct to face the opponent.

Again, credit for the above useful information goes to whoever put in the work for the wiki. I don't know who that is.

- c.lk c.mp s.mk c.hk: basic close range damaging combo.

- c.lk c.mk c.hk: it's important to mix up with this since it hits low 3 times. c.mk c.hk is

also an option for hitting low and early anti airing at the same time, with good range!

- c.lk, +c.lp c.lk s.mk: his best far range combo after dash mp's and such. not so much good

damage but it adds up after being stacked.

- c.lk s.mk c.hp: this is ok if you're out of the first combo's range.

- jump in mp hp, dash mp, c.lk s.mk c.hp: this is a good jump in combo. i like his jump in

because it hits from full screen. so if Bishamon tries to spirit you can punish him with

this. you can also dash hp before dash mp for some extra hits and damage.

- dash over crossup hk, c.lk c.mp s.mk c.hk: this is good against small characters.

- dash mk, c.lk s.mk c.hk: good air to ground combo.

- dash hp: this is an infinite, but it's very hard to keep this going for a long time. timing

is strict, and it isn't recommended. but if you're going to use this, use it on victor and

bishamon since they can get infinited while crouching.

Ad.mp, +ad.lk, +ad.lk

*try setting up the ES spin scythe(his bigass projectile) to keep em on the ground? follow w/ unblockable super? WRR

DF: [F+[LP, LK, MP, HP]]xN

*need to be hovering barely off the ground

*jedah?s attacks lunge after wiffing a move in a a dash. So you can do d.mk, d.mp, and the mp will gain signifigant range. Groundash backward will make him lunge backwards

Magman's written guide: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XH0YZWB0

Jedah

Special Moves

Spinning Scythe: d, df, f + P (useable in mid-air)

Sphere Scythe: d, db, b + P

Sickle Slam: In mid-air, f, df, d, db, b + K

Sickle Spin: In mid-air, f, df, d, db, b + K, then press P

Blood Pump: When close to the opponent, f, df, d, db, b + K

Blood Blast: When blocking, f, d, df + P

ES Moves

ES Spinning Scythe: d, df, f + 2P (useable in mid-air)

ES Sphere Scythe: d, db, b + 2P

ES Sickle Slam: In mid-air, f, df, d, db, b + 2K

ES Sickle Spin: In mid-air, f, df, d, db, b + 2K, then press P

ES Blood Blast: When blocking, f, d, df + 2P

EX Moves

Finale: d, d, + 2P

Signed in Blood: b, db, d, df, f + 2K, then press K

Crap I got some good combo's here

Killer Combo's

Jumping deep LP, Standing close LP, MP, HP

Jumping deep LP,Standing close LP, LK, MK

Spinning Scythe, Jumping deep LP, Standing LP, MP, HP

ES Spinning Scythe, Jumping deep LP, Standing LP, MP, HP

ES Spinning Scythe, Standing HK, Pursuit Attack

ES Spinning Scythe, Standing HK, ES Pursuit Attack

Finale, Pursuit Attack

Finale, ES Pursuit Attack

Jedah is an agreessive powerhouse who is fast but a large target. His unblockable supers make him a threat for any opponent, espcially defensive characters. They can be snuffed but not very easily. His dash is also one of the best with Demitri's and Morrigan's. It has excellent speed and range. Plus, his air dash is great get inside to set-up your attack. Use alot of LP's to rely on pokin' strategies due to its speed and range. It's both a useful and a annoying tool. The standing MP and HP also got just as good as priority. HP got incredile range, do amazing damage and hit multiple times as well. This 3 attacks make up as the best, easiest adn useful chain combo.He's not much for projectile wars with his Spinning Scythe though. It should still be used though, on both the ground and in mid-air. Never use it close. Use it about half a character away or so. This projectile also comes handy with Jedah's LP poking pattern's into his LP, MP, HP chain. The Sphere Spike is not a completley great attack. Use it in close perimeters and to get outta corner traps. Although, since it moves Jedah back at the same and uses his HK attack it gives him some good defense. Just don't abuse this technique. Try to mix this move up with his LP poke. His Sickle Slam is a great suprise move and there is basically no escape from it. In addition with it, you can mix it up with the Sickle Spin and you somewhat control the distance and not attack the opponent with it. On the other hand this just leaves you quite open though. The Blood Blast is another awesome attack which only works good as a Guard Cancel like it does in Vampire Savior unlike in Savior 2. The Blood Pump is an ok move that should be used sparingly since it can only be executed at close range. Yet one downfall is Jedah's lack of knockdown moves. The standing HK is one but is very low priority. it has slow wind up time, cant' be linked, and leaves Jedah open. Although, it works well as a overhead attack and as a anti-air attack if you time it right. While the Finale is his only other knockdown, yet you must be quick to react for this one for pursuit attacks. The Finale is Jedah's best EX attack for it has a great suprise like ability and cant hardly be escape. In addition it comes from the ground and does tremndous damage. Signed in Blood is good but has less priority, for it is a bit easier to escape and must timed correctly to grab the opponent. Jedah's dark force, which enables him to fly, will it's nothing great. With it you can play a defensive game or refer to corner poking trap games.

Jumping LP, LK, Standing close LP, (ES) Blood Blast, (ES) Pursuit Attack

Standing close, (ES) Spinning Scythe, Standing close LP, crouching LP, (ES) Blood Blast, (ES) Pursuit Attack

Dark Force, Flying close LP, LK, MP, HP

Jedah: the basic rundown

Noteworthy normals

--mp - jedah?s mp(fingernails) similar in all forms all versions come out relatively fast, and stay out long enough to get well enough in the way

-s.mp - useful in keeping the opponent on the ground in the corner

-d.mp - from afar, his dashing mp makes for a great instant overhead, comes out fast and you get the benefit of advancing at the opponent

-c.mp ? looks like a good AA doesn?t it?... well use c.mk instead

--fierce- One of jedah?s more memorable moves that people who play against jedah are familiar with. scrubs will just spam this move. All of them have quite good priority(j.fierce beats out qbee?s normal air shit). The problem with this move lies in where the prime hitboxes are placed(a character and a half away from his body mainly), and the fact that if you wiff(which you shouldn?t be) you?ll likely get punished. Hp should be used when rushing from afar, or in a chaincombo of some sort.

--c.mk ? makes for a great anti air(from a character away)

--j.rk ? another move that people are becoming all too familiar with. j.rk completely removes jedah?s momentum w/ whatever he?s doing in the air. Crosses up, and more often than not you can squeeze a j.lk or j.mk before you land to throw them off while rushing down

--j.mk ? mix up a pulsed d.mk when you?re near the opponent and rushing down?. Its got a really perfect angle made for rtsd.

--airdash ? its here, b/c it hits and shit. You can chicken guard into it, and throw your momentum and direction left and right. It causes empty chained normals that are done after it to track the opponent, so should be use in your rtsd.

~knocks down, and thus give him his primary way of using a pursuit.

Specials(dubbed by quick nicknames, b/c those Italian names confuse me)

--wheel(qcf+p, doable in the air-1 hit): everyone can use the wheel, but it takes proper anticipation to us it correctly. the 3 wheels spin in different positions, depending on the strength of the punch used. The lp wheel will be in the lowest position, when standing, and the highest position when jumping. The hp wheel works opposite to the lp wheel. Of course, their most obvious asset is to zone and pin the opponent down, while you run the fuck away, or rush down. An airblocked wheel will have the opponent land with a momentum that goes away from you.

-ES wheel (approximately 5 hits)- the ES wheel is where majority of your meter should be going. It takes up 2/3rds worth of the height of the screen, and allows for you to dash in for mixup, or throw a super at them(provided you pin them properly). If the wheel is behind them, you can still poke them back into the wheel. Should they rush YOU down, you can tech(pushblock) them into the wheel.

--~hittind jedah cancels the wheel

~An airblocked ES wheel will have the opponent fly at you. Which gives you a free claw.

~ES wheel will be nullified by basic projectiles(soulflash, missles, fireballs)-so in that aspect, it only allows for 1 hit worth of a trade.

~hitting jedah early cancels the wheel. if hes hit, and the ES wheel?s developed, it will stay there.

--claw(qcb+p) ?jedah?s 3rd throw? he claws at the air, and leaves claw marks... doesn?t hit low, but I think it may get a crouching victor(I halfto test it later). If the opponent touches the claw marks, they get put in a blood bubble and shit. Works as an AA IF you can anticipate ahead of time. C.mk is definitely safer though.

--air command throw(hcb+k, optional punch extension) - I really like using this without the punch extension on wakeup, or just to change momentum of rushdown, but a player w/ quick reactions will bat you out of the sky.

~the ES version goes extra far(and doesn?t track, as some might wish/hope). Use it if you need to grab?. extra far.

--ground command throw(hcb+k) jedah?s 3rd command throw? mix up accordingly.

~ has no ES

--guardcancel(dp+p) ? he decapitates his head, and blood splurts, and hits the opponent. The hit boxes are in a nice enough place for this to be a reliable gc.

~The ES gc is special case? make sure all the hits hit, b/c if they get hit by the 1st of iono how many hits of ES gc, then they fall and roll under you, ggpo.

Supers & DF

-jedah's supers have low utility (they're both unblockable which is their saving grace imo)

--hell super(down, down+PP) ? unblockable super, that grabs from beneath the opponent. Stays out for quite a while. But if you miss, you?re fucked.

contract super(hcf+K, k after to grab) ? slow, sends a wave of blood that, upon command will grab the opponent.

~~both supers are best used with a wheel or ES wheel to keep them grounded.

Df: he flies? I can?t say much, because I haven?t found effective utility in using it.

Strategory

jedah's played rushdown(tho, i try to play all characters rushdown)/zoning.

unless you're going at the opponent from a high airdash, always ground-dash in pulses(enough to just hop into the air & do an attack) going high into the air with a groundash sacrifices your ability to block[which isnt good].

Rushing down: choices and options(oh so fun..)

from afar, these are the best options to get in on the opponent(imo):

-a hopped hp, or mp

-fwd, fwd, fwd, air normal/blade(this'll have jedah grounddash, then do a low airdash,)

__~an additional benefit; once hes dashed, he naturally grazes over fireballs

-groundash back, ad forward, empty linked normals(tho, this is one of the more obvious ways of getting in imo.)

-normal jump, lp/mp blade, airdash in(also unsafe, & very obvious)

once you get in close, mix up w/ hi/lo shit.

for up close, your best options are:

-pulsed groundash, d.mp/mk/rk/lk

-jump straight up, airdash, immediate rk, into empty linked normals for annoying possible crossup.[i'll generally do ad.rk, ad.mk, ad.lk->land]

wakeup options:

-dash toward enemy & attack for hi/lo

-dash/airdash then airthrow

-blade on wakeup

-meaty super

also, you could opt for a light- air command throw, if you know you're gunna get on top've em on wakeup(or even just dashing in). opponents tend to spend a bit of time thinking/blocking an attack that never came out.

Misc. Info

If you wiff normals during his ground dash, jedah DOESN?T build meter

unlike morrigan(who's down/up groundash "homes in" on the opponent), if you decide to dash w/ your opponent while they move on the ground, you'll rely moreso on intuition[than laziness]

the primary characters you wanna watch out for as far as wakeups go are anak[who has his anti-pursuit move], and demitri(lilith too maybe)[who's got the high priority(not invincible) uppercut]. I'm pretty sure you can counter both by chicken guarding in, but again, thats countered by ground normals -_-

DF: [F+[LP, LK, MP, HP]]xN

*need to be hovering barely off the ground

[+d.hp]xN

and something on the lines of [d.lp, d.lk, d.mp, d.hp]xN

tho the last one might be DF only too... which means that and the first one are actually semi-infs..

as far as the d.hp one goes, I know daigo still practices perfecting it...meaning, the linking is a bitch

[Daddyneptune]

It come down to a few things when fighting talbain. Focusing on your strengths, gallons weaknesses, and push blocking. First of all its jedah's worst match up, but like I said focus on your strengths and his weaknesses. No where near easy though.

First thing you should remember though. He takes damage like a little girl so if you hit him,hit him hard.

Also you have to have a solid plan for him. One is just to put him in the corner so you can start your offense with es pinwheel and your hi/low game. Usually its jedah being pushed to the corner though.

For mid screen.

You are good at at zoning so keep him at bay with pinwheels. Mainly the one that hits at a mid level. Also keep him so if he tries to jump in he will eat a c.mk and make sure he says at that distance.

Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAO9RpKu9uo

[Skankin Garbage]

If the mods feel like it's worthwhile to keep this thread open, then by all means; but, I should mention that I'd be more than welcome to discussing anti-Talbain strategies in my thread, as well.

[Kyle]

I'mma just turn this into the Jedah Thread. =P

You guys can talk match-ups a lil later. We need to grow some more first before we prove we deserve matchup threads.

[HARD_BREAD]

Thread should be called Jedah: Vampire Jesus.

[Kyle]

Added some contect from SRK.

[doragonkoroshi]

Good call, Kyle.

By Magneto Maniac:

when guarding in air you can chicken with airdash. use this to escape corner and pressure situations.

- learn how to use his airdash and get 2 hits off of it. for example. if you airdash too low, you will be able to only input 1 button. if you do it high OR go around, you can do something like mk hk or mk mp. when you go around i suggest MK then MP (hopefully you can see why by looking at the moves). and when you are above them but high and they are still in front, use MK then HK. if you are too low to the ground you can use LK to hover, then MK, MP, or HK. you can also do LP and HP which i don't recommend. something to keep in mind when using this is that if you're high, you can do THREE inputs using the light attacks. LK, LP, MP or LK, LP, MK/HK. maybe by now you have followed that the LK floats you more and the height at which you choose to attack during the airdash affects what you can and cannot do.

- his ground dash is important to his mixup game. you can do the same thing as you can with the airdash in this mode. when they start to get scared, you can hold the dash until you're half screen up and go around them, MK then HK, airdash, whatever. tons of mixups, you can either watch match videos or get creative, the mixups are endless.

- one thing about mixing up with jedah is to know it's counters, and what a good subsitute mixup to use that counters the counter, or stops the initial counter that is hitting you. it's hard to explain, but it goes back to basic meaties beat mash/throw and jump beats throw etc. now i know that jump in some cases doesn't beat throw due to high normals but i was just giving an example. adjust your mixups so that one out of 3 or 4 will work in a situation.

[Kyle]

Someone asked me if there was any trick to inputting the "infinite"combos. I hastly said, "No".But after thinking about it for a bit, I did come up with something.

Button priority is heavy attacks > Light attacks. Such that pressing hp+mp+lp at the same tiem results in a hp being activated. This means we have (3) ways of inputting hp or hk & (2) ways of inputting mp or mk. This is applicable because we now have (3) inputs to hit any link with a hp or hk. This adds (2) extra frame of input leniency for the user.

hp input = [hp]~[mp]~[LP]

mp input = [mp]~[LP]

hk input = [hk]~[mk]~[Lk]

mk input = [mk]~[Lk]

Against standing Bishamon:

(66, [hp]~[mp]~[LP]) xN

I don't know that exact frame link to connect dashing.j.hp, but there is a +2frame input leniency with this trick. =)

[[TRM]tenkai-45i[xTF]]

That doesn't work, Kyle. What you're describing is SF4's Plinking mechanic, which does not exist in Vampire Savior. To illustrate this, let's use the Bishamon infinite example you talked about:

Suppose we have frames ABCD you're doing 66 [hp]~[mp]~[lp] as you said, and the window for linking the HP is on frames B, C, and D. If you press and hold HP on frame A, and then on the next frame, press and hold MP, you will still only get a MP (you just happened to be holding down HP as you're doing this). The game doesn't recognize these subsequent inputs as you getting another HP; only SF4 does that.

That being said, there is a very important thing to keep in mind when doing the infinite vs Bishamon. When you do 66 for the dash, you should hold the second 6, so you get 6[6] HP. The reason is that when you dash, there is a period at the beginning of the dash where you cannot input any attacks. So the effect of a tapped 66 HP is that you dash a little bit, fall slightly (since you cannot hit HP right away), and then the HP comes out. The problem is that your falling slightly will often cause the HP to only hit once because you're not airborne long enough for the other hits. You will fall after the first hit and land before the second hit. When attempting to redash to continue the infinite, too much time will elapse from the time you hit with the first hit (when you were relatively high in the air) to when you land, redash, and try to hit HP again. So you want to get an HP hit as close to the ground as possible, so you have the maximum amount of hitstun to work with for the next dash HP. To do this, you do 6[6]. Since there is a period where you cannot hit any buttons anyway, you should use that period to dash as high as possible. So you hold the dash and then link the HP normally. The HP causes Jedah's body to naturally fall, so there's no need to worry about staying too high in the air after the attack connects.

Besides that, I think the only trick we have to work with when linking the HP is double-tapping it.

[Kyle]

Does not work. Thanks for the input [TRM]Tenkai-45i[xTF].

I did notice some effective Jedah air approaches.

Against standing opponent. j.lp (hits), j.mp(whiffs), recover, falling whatever.

Lastly, bait an Anti-air with j.hk (whiff), recover, falling j.mk for a combo.

He has unique air momentum b/c of his stall on j.hk and his float on j.lk. Is the j.lk stuff only on an airdash, like.. is it an extension of his current momentum?

[Kyle]

From Gbursine @Srk. Post#2342

he goes over all standing projectiles w/ his immediate ground->airdash

[doragonkoroshi]

From Gbursine @Srk. Post#2342

he goes over all standing projectiles w/ his immediate ground->airdash

Good to know for sure. I've tried this before but wasn't sure if it always works. Or maybe i was doing backdash>airdash to get more time to get the airdash out?

I have a question that I asked you, but I thought I'd post it on here to see if anyone can pop in and answer. Does hcb+p+k work as an option select for unblockable and command throw? In theory, the unblockable will come out if they jump and the command throw will come out if they block. I've messed with it and I think it was working the way I want it to, but would like confirmation from someone who understands the mechanics of the game better than me.

[doragonkoroshi]

Also how does command throw startup work? It says jedah's command throw is slow, but if it whiffs forward or roundhouse comes out. Is there an additional startup added to these moves when you go for a command throw or are the command throw startup frames part of the animation of the normal that would come out if the throw whiffs?

[Kyle]

It seems to be worded poorly. What is typical is that you get no whiff animation on command throw, but w/ slow start-up you have a greater chance it not coming out b/c the opponent has a larger window to GTFO (movement is fast in this game!)

It's my belief that a command throw only whiffs when the active frames is overlapping someone's vulnerable hitbox & they are off the ground or invincible. When the active frames is not overlapping someone's vulnerable hitbox- the normal comes out instead. Really, this is poor coding b/c command throws should be baited & punished. This doesn't allow for that scenario.

I believe if they were to PATCH this game, that would be fixed. lol

[doragonkoroshi]

I edited my above post stating that after spending time in training mode I did find the whiff animation but I had to time it just right. I like that whiff animation rarely comes out because claw swipe sounds like an awesome option select for me. Main problem with this from a design standpoint imo? What if you're playing the game for the first time and trying to figure out moves? You'd never know you had a command throw unless you were in range when you tried the input. Nowadays there's the internet and you can look these things up, but when this game came out, it probably would have been hard to get such info.

[Blade]

Damn, nobody wants to answer my Jedah question: what's the name of that Latin Chant that plays in his boss intro!?????

At the same time I want to learn his combos for Chaos Tower.

[doragonkoroshi]

nobody wants to answer my Jedah question

Correct.

At the same time I want to learn his combos for Chaos Tower.

OK.

If you want to ask any questions that have to do with competitive gameplay, please ask them and we will do our best to help you. Actually, I would have been glad to tell you what that chant is if I knew the answer. Unless Google knows it, I don't think anyone here does either. Thanks for the Vampire thread activity and feel free to stop in again sometime.

[doragonkoroshi]

OK, so my friend asked me for some wolf help on srk, and I gave him some tips for that as well as some general jedah tips since he's kind of a new player. the following is what resulted.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmqqfS4-4nU

From Kyle@SRK. His comments in reference to this video.

...

- Dog in the air ALL DAY

- Jedah using wheel above dogs head to keep him out of the air. I assume if dog jumps & blocks you get st.mp into a reset = mixup.

- Jedah buffering 63214+React. You actually see him do a couple crouches until he finally hits the antiair claw. Buffer the halkf back and all you gotta press is 1-button.

- B/C dog is a short croucher, dashing j.hk is especially effective,

- when midscreen Jedah's primary pokes are dashing j.mp or cr.mk.

- Last thing I noticed was Jedah using cr,lp b/c it's his fastest move and trying to keep gallon honest w/ what he has frame advantage w/ and what he thins he has advantage w/.

^also it probably needs to be said that you need to be really careful with your wheels. i see shimatsuya get punished even for doing it full screen in a neutral situation. jumping wheel from full screen seems a little safer, but buzz even hits him out of one of those. on the offensive they're much safer provided your opponent is either getting up from a knockdown, or they are respecting your pressure and blocking. if they're looking for an opportunity to counter-poke your j. mp, just jump in/air dash in, throw a wheel instead. as kyle said originally, a wheel above dog's head will keep him from jumping, and if he does jump and block the wheel, you should get standing mp for free. to set this up, we see air dash, j.mp canceled into mp (or lp?) wheel a few times. he's not even making contact with the j. mp but it works anyway (i'm not saying whiff j. mp on purpose all the time, but it builds more meter, and is more confusing than wheel by itself, and it's safer than using j. mp, wheel at a range where your j. mp can be counter-poked because of it's bad hitbox.) we even see shimatsuya go for down, down PPP after placing a wheel above gallon's head, but don't go for that one too often as it's really slow and as we see in the video it doesn't work. obviously if your opponent is scared and there's a wheel above their head and they just sit there it will work. maybe this is even a trap where if they jump and block the wheel too early it knocks them back into the super and they eat it. i don't know.

to supplement your inability to rely on wheel (which i think really happens in most matchups besides just gallon anyway) rely on pokes more. dash/backdash mp/hp, standing/crouching lp, crouching mk, neutral jump mp on the way up, then hp on the descent (as soon as you can after j.mp). throwing these out will give you more opportunities to throw out wheels from neutral situations, which will cover any attempts at approaching you might want to make. to clarify this point, when you dance around and poke more, your opponent will be less capable of predicting when you are going to throw circles. DO NOT simply poke from behind your circle until it dies and then throw out another circle. this is bad because your opponent knows exactly when you are going to throw out another wheel and will simply wait for that opportunity to strike. if you can do it without being punished, it's a safe way to play, but you need to be comfortable poking without the wheel out in order to make it less predictable when you do throw wheel in neutral situations.

Also, I told you the other day that in all versions of hp, the first arm that comes out has no vulnerable box. I took another look today, and this is true for the standing and crouching versions only. j. hp is still good as it has great horizontal range, you can cancel it into specials, and the hitbox does extend slightly farther than the vulnerable box, but you're not going to win a whole lot of air-to-air battles this way without trading. so for beast cannon, a standing or crouching hp timed properly should beat it, but because of the slow recovery you'll probably be at a disadvantage afterwards anyway. It looks like Shimatsuya prefers standing or crouching lp for the trade.

Don't forget about renda bonus. if you link two crouching lp's or lk's you get more frame advantage than you would for just doing one. this makes it safer for you to attempt dash mixups. if they're still poking you out of dash even with renda bonus, try a lp wheel with the renda bonus, or change it up by, doing a dash, j. mk/j. hk immediately after your jump-in (instead of c. lk, c. lk.), or by doing one c. lk after landing, then dash mixup, or one c. lk, walk forward, throw if you're close enough. other options are neutral jump, j. hk (to stop your upward momentum while they whiff a poke attempt (hopefully you're far enough out that their poke whiffs)) falling j. mp. hopefully your j. mp makes contact and you're right back where you want to be in your offense dash mixup situation. you can also try dash back, airdash forward, mp/mk.

know your throw range. i'm bad at this, but watch shimatsuya go for grabs all day when they're too close with bad block strings.

Now for more general Jedah tips:

if they block a big circle in the air, you get free qcb p. it will push them into it. this can be chicken blocked sometimes, but i don't know if it was just bad timing on my part or what. just go for it.

if they block big circle on the ground, you can go for mixup, but they can guard cancel it so easily, so watch out for that and punish if they do that. if they just sit and block, go for mixup. the only people i see guard cancel it so far are luke, zach, kyle, and quan i think. if you're playing mark, remember bulletta's gc is just a teleport so i think you're safe at least going for mixup on him even if he does gc.

if they get hit by big (or any circle) in the air, this is knockdown. air dash also knocks down. ray and pat are saying go for pursuit (up+p) every time, and i have been doing this. after watching shimatsuya, i'm not so sure though. it looks like he's only using it when it will kill. remember that pursuits only do white damage, and that jedah's pursuit puts him on the opposite side of your opponent, which usually means the corner. instead, of pursuit, some mixups you can do are:

-mp wheel on top of them, dash. if they roll forward, j. hk for crossup. if they don't roll, they have to block the wheel, and maybe you j. hk anyway for the overhead, or you can airdash from your ground dash and get crossup from your autocorrected air normals. if they roll back, maybe you can force them to block a j. mp or j. hp and keep your pressure up. obviously if they're in the corner, rolling back only functions as a delayed no-roll, so you don't have to worry as much about them getting away from you.

-neutral jump right at their front roll range. if they do roll forward, j. hk becomes hella ambiguous, (make sure you time it so they wake up into your j. hk as you descend.) if they don't roll, j. mp. as you descend to keep pressure up. if they roll back, airdash, something like j. mp, but again, i think this is a setup you want to do near the corner to encourage them to front roll under your j. hk.

-if they're too far away to get a decent oki setup, just dash forward, and initiate an airdash directly above them, then do auto correct air normals. (if you do j. mp it will turn you around, but your momentum will still carry you away from your opponent. if you whiff j. lp or j. lk, these will turn you around, and then the next air normal will have momentum back towards your opponent, which is better for you because you can go for high/low upon landing at closer range.)

-stay between where they were knocked down and their front roll range, mash lp a few times until they roll

-did they roll forward? back dash, j. hk, j. mp, j. hk or j. hp

-did they roll back? dash, j. mp or j. hk

- did they not roll at all? dash, j. hk or j. mk.

-in general in an oki situation, it's safe to just throw out a wheel and see how they react, but it's not always as advantageous as a successful attempt at some of the other options.

try to get your opponent to jump in at your c. mk range. it's a good aa if they're not in too close, and if you hit with it, you reset them and get to apply pressure.

if your opponent is jumping out of your mixup (after a jump in, or (more likely) after c. lk c. lk) do standing mp, instead. sometimes c. mk or c. mp works better, but i forget what characters you have to use those on. This will reset them as they jump out, which puts them farther away but at least you can dash in and apply pressure, and it's much preferred to whiffing a mixup attempt and taking damage.

learn to tech hit. if you have a wheel in front of you, and your opponent wants to jump over it and hit you, you can tech hit the jump-in and put them right into your wheel. it's also just good anyway because jedah doesn't react well to being rushed down.

learn to guard cancel (dp+p in block stun.) i'm bad at this myself, but i shouldn't have to go into why guard cancel is good. do keep in mind however that jedah's gc hits kind of high, so shorties and low long-distance pokes are kind of safe from it. one technique to make gc easier is do hcb, (or end in down/back if you're blocking a low), block, then d/f+p. also i guess es guard cancel is better if you feel like doing that.

standing mk. the blood that splatters on the ground has no vulnerability on the initial active frame(s?) so this should be good for counter-poking poorly spaced lows or other moves that don't hit very high off the ground. jedah leans forward to do this and so is vulnerable in the space that his upper-body leans into. neutral on block, +1 on hit, so decent in that department too. also decently fast startup.

remember, your ground chain is c. lk, c. mp, STANDING mk, c. hk. standing mk is necessary as c. mk will push them too far out for c. hk to hit, which will be bad for you. if you don't have the feel for this down, practice it a few times. i know i still accidentally get c. mk in my weaker moments. fyi, c. hp instead of c. hk works, but does equal damage if all 3 hits hit, and if the last hit or two whiffs, you'll probably get punished and that's bad news.

-in addition, you may opt to end the string at standing mk and go for more mixup. do this if your opponent is blocking as neutral on block is much better than c. hk's -7. again, it's neutral on block so be careful, and also once your opponent realizes he can throw out a poke after he blocks standing mk, finish the string out with c. hk anyway and they may not block it. ending on standing mk can work on hit too just to keep your opponent off balance, but in a lot of ways just getting the guaranteed extra damage from c. hk is better than taking a huge risk to continue pressure.

-if they're too far away, you may just have to settle for c. lp, c. mp, c. hp. or just c. lp, c. hp. this will probably happen on certain jump-ins, punish situations, and dark force combo enders.

dark force:

-still adjusting to this myself, but you need to use dark force to get out of pressure, unblockable, and throw setups. activating df makes you fly up, then hold down/forward, (or just down depending on the location of your opponent) and do j. mk, j. hk. then end in a ground string or continue pressure if they blocked. NOTE: dark force is not a free combo. do the above after activation in a situation where your opponent whiffed a huge move which left them vulnerable.

-hitting up will put jedah in flight, which gives you access to your air normals, which basically work as instant overheads in this case. use them. hit down to land and cancel any undesired recovery.

-the darkforce combo i see is tap up, hold forward, j. lp, j. mp, j. mk, j. hk, land, c. lp, c. mp, c. hp. you can also break off the combo at c. lp and go for mixup or add another c. lp for the renda bonus, going for mixup from there with extra frame advantage.

jump in (thanks to kyle for this one):

-jump forward, j. mp asap, buffer j. mk so that if your j. mp hits a standing or jumping opponent, the j. mk will come out and whiff, but after the whiff, you have time to do another j. mk, j. hk, before you land, which can be pretty tricky to unsuspecting opponents and put you in that offensive situations jedah loves so much.

-if the j. mp whiffs, the buffered j. mk will not come out, in which case you still have time to do one on your descent.

-if j. mp hits or whiffs, you may opt to follow with a j. hk, to stall your descent and then do a j. mk or j. mp on the way down depending on where your opponent is.

[Delicious56]

First post on DL so whats up any and everyone. Now i've only just recently seriously started to play this game and I was wondering how we should go about the lei lei match up and just playing jedah in general. I read the info in the thread and i've tried applying it but something feels like its missing. For example, how am I supposed to actually use that renda bonus from two shorts to help my mix up? it feels like his dash takes too long and even after that, and this is probably just me, but it feels like that little delay before you can attack at all after the dash ruins mixup opportunities. I have yet to face a gallon so to me, lei lei is currently public enemy number 1

[RandomALT]

Delicious, are you holding 6 (toward) after the dash? If you let go you're gonna get a short delay before you can attack.

[Kyle]

I would like to add, Jedah & Morrigan are similar in a way that they are a high/low mixup character. They both lack the frame advantage of threatening mixups. often times, opponents can poke/jump out & these two characters are left flying there being ineffective.

These two maintain a level of condition to facilitate their high/low game. About 1/2 the time you have the choice for a high/low, you should be doing frame traps & anti-jump attacks.

Example: cr.lp, rapid cr.lp, RECOVER mk. If the opponent jumped, the st.mk hits them from the air. They get air reset & you can do a high/low mixup right as they recover.

Example: cr.lp, rapid cr.lp, recover, step towards, cr.lk, cr.lk CONFIRM. If the opponent tried to counterpoke, you will counter-hit them and can confirm your 2-chain into a 5-chain for maximum red dmg. You could also cancel the rapid cr.lk into a wheel/ES wheel for frame advantage to do a high/low/bait-GC scenario. When done correctly, this nets more total damage of Red + White.

- Some characters jump higher/faster & force Jedah to use st.mp instead of st.mk. But, the problem is that DOG & BEE can crouch st.mp. =(

- Bee, Zabel & Sasquatch are much more effective high/low characters. Their mixups is frame advantageous. This means they don't have to lose high/low opportunites to bait jumps & counterpokes. Also, their movement is much faster, such that their offense typically beats tech hits.

[Delicious56]

Delicious, are you holding 6 (toward) after the dash? If you let go you're gonna get a short delay before you can attack.

Ive only just recently started doing this as i was trying to learn his dash hp loop. Its very dificult though. There is a small window to press hk that i havent mastered yet. How do you deal with fast mix up characters like bee and cat? Im no pro at teching but all my attempts get baited and i eat full combos as i whiff a normal. Crazy frustrating.

[Skankin Garbage]

- Some characters jump higher/faster & force Jedah to use st.mp instead of st.mk. But, the problem is that DOG & BEE can crouch st.mp. =(

I would like to bring up the fact that in this situation for Jedah, the better thing to do is S.Lp. Here's why, from the perspective of a "DOG" player:

From the ideal distance that Kyle mentions for pegging jumps early with Jedah's S.Mp, there's three things that Talbain players will have a propensity to try:

1. Dash (short hop or D.Mk, D.Lk link)

2. Jump.

3. BC/ES BC.

Let's go down the list.

1. From this distance, S.Lp is extremely effective because it will stop Talbain's dashes. Seriously. Like, every day. All the time. It's ridiculous. Once Talbain learns this (and you'll have to do the work to make them realize it), they'll see that dashing isn't *actually* an option unless they've got you waaaaay off guard.

2. But wait! S.Lp won't stop an early jump attempt! This is true; however, it WILL recover with more than enough time for you to try whatever AA is suitable for you: Nero Fatica, C.Mk (not likely from this range - must be a bit farther out), or just AG (start with S.Lk as an option select for empty-jump-command-throw shenanigans).

You might be reading this, outraged, and want to tell me "Dude, you don't get it. AAing with Nero Fatica is hard. Dude, yo, it's hard, yo. Yo, dude, get this, it's hard." I've heard it all before, and I really understand. I understand the concept of something being ideal on paper and difficult in practice. On the other hand, if you've truly chosen to main Jedah, then knowing the proper ranges and timings to AA with Nero Fatica is something you should be more than happy to learn and practice, as it will benefit you greatly in the long run.

Once you get this, the REAL mind game is whether or not Talbain is going to jump-in with a normal attack, or do an Air BC mid-trajectory. Don't forget that you can always AG.

3. The wild-card to this whole "Just throw a S.Lp" trick is ground Beast Cannons. S.Lp can beat them, and S.Lp will probably recover in time to block a Normal BC before it connects. However, an ES BC can potentially "beat" S.Lp if done at a precise timing; it requires the Jedah player to S.Lp very late, or it requires Talbain to perform an ES BC just a hair late, hitting Jedah's S.Lp on recovery (i.e too risky to try every time and impossible to do on reaction to a jab). Since this is the only thing that can technically beat the S.Lp trick, and it's extremely high-risk for Talbain (losing this exchange will give Jedah the offensive advantage), you won't see him try this very often.

So, when in this situation, try and reprogram yourselves to try this instead. Do whatever you need to do to buff your AA game - learn the timings, learn the spacings, practice your 1-hit AG like crazy. Do this, and the S.Lp defense will work wonders for you in this matchup.

[Ewickify]

http://www.mediafire.com/?5z84rw19l91bxwe

Re-uploaded Magman's Jedah guide since the old megaupload link is destroyed.

[Fang-Joker]

Helped me with blockstrings, thx.