[CSE] Bowling Ball General v:3

[Andru]

If 2A combos I feel like she will have a more "stable" gameplay..combined with higher average damage from a basic combo with the proration change.

[KM Riku]

The loketest is over and the final comments about Tao made from the guy from generalnantoka (not much different from before, but whatever):

-This is not Taokaka, the character changed completely.

---

Complete Change List:

-6B: now Fatal Counter;

-6C: faster startup, it's at least 19 frames or less;

-5C/2C->6C combos on crouchers;

-Proration in some moves is better. 2A->5B->6A->j.8D~A->finisher does 3300 now;

-j.D: less untechable time against grounded character, wallbounce on CH;

-Hexa-Edge: wallbounce removed;

-j.8D: less untechable time;

-5B->6A only combos on crouchers now;

-3C: more knockback, enough that 236A won't hit midscreen.

---

2A may lead to 3k on crouching characters, but...hitting crouching people with a low is kinda . It really doesn't happen very ofen, specially because people tend to block high after a block 5C since Tao doesn't have a low after that and because of her cross-ups. Also those changes make Tao more heat dependent to combos and those limited combo options make her meter gain very worse. Not that those changes make Tao bad or anything like that (even because the nantoka guy said she is different, not bad), but I would prefer more combo options and worse proration than better proration and basically no midscreen combo option against standing characters.

However, this is still the first loketest and I still have some hopes for a more fun Tao.

[Cryingvoid]

Anyone knows how many loketests are going to be held? Damn, those nerfs are no fun at all... I hope this reballance result not that bad in the end.

[Ronove]

Probably atleast 3 more loketests.

[KM Riku]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9792-BBCS-News-only.-Anything-else-TEMPBAN.-BBCS-Extend-for-arcade-PS3-360-Vita&p=1114578#post1114578

Counter assault - Most characters can no longer follow up on a successful CA. Some characters like Arakune are an exception to this. Using a CA reduces your max primer count by 1 (for only that round). It's a useful tool for turning the flow of the match, but using it too much increases the danger of being guard crushed.

Kinda bad for Tao since she only has 4 primes and no defense options without her CA (and Hexa-edge)

[Domethieus]

Not what I ment Geo....but w/e

Forgot Hex Edge has invincibility frames

[NeoGio0o]

Either learn to block........or IB hexa edge/mash distortion and let BB IB for you.

[KM Riku]

-2B links into 5B;

-214C has slightly better startup, breaks 1 prime;

-214214C leap distance decreased, now only covers roughly half-screen.

2B->5B is very good, more pressure options for Tao. 214C buff is nice too and the 214214C nerf isn't that bad, but the matchup against Lambda will probably be a little harder now.

[Ronove]

If it works like it does with other characters having 2B->5B obviously means that on hitconfirm it shouldn't be possible to follow with an other 2B right after, but maybe on block it might be. If that is the case it does indeed open up to more pressuring options since from a 5B she can setup lows, overheads (6B or j.2B) and staggers.

This would also turn 2B into more than just a move used to get close to the opponent when already being near them but it would effectively make it in a footsies move during the neutral phase as well, even though it doesn't travel a long distance it's quick and has a good hitbox for a low move. Of course, this comes by assuming how the proration is going to be and how much damage Tao is able to deal after that.

[KM Riku]

6投げが中央でも6Dで追撃に行けるようになった

-6B+C->5D is possible midscreen

EDIT:

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1307471142/625

-After the j.D~B CH wallbounce, you can land->j.8D~A. It's also possible. It's also possible to combo after j.D~C CH;

-4B+C->22C->etc does 3.3k.

-j.214D: the jump after inputing 6 is shorter, worse to flee. The distance is almost the half of the CS2 j.214D; (NOOOOOOOOO)

-Her Counter Assault seems to have more recovery

-It seems that 5B attack level decreased. 5B CH->6C doesn't hit even with the 6C buff, while 5C CH->6C still combo. 6B FC->5B->6C also doesn't combo; (NOOOOOOOOO²)

-6B prorate seems to be worse since CS2 combos (without the loop or with just a few j.8D~A, I think) drops before it ends.

- ...6A->5D~B->5C->(j.8D~A)->2D->j.D~6->j.C->j.8D~6->j.C->j.8D~6->j.2D~6->Cat 2

6A starter: 3000dmg

j.D starter: 3000dmg

j.C starter: 3700dmg (I think this mean that j.C->6A combos since it's not saying it's crouching only)

2B->5C->2C->5D->RC->...: 3400dmg

(crouch only)5B->5C->6C: 4000

-easiest AB2 combo is 3C (2 hits)->AB2->5B->...

[Cryingvoid]

Is it from the last loketest? Are any more to come?

I don't like those red lines... ((

[XDest]

-2B links into 5B;

-214C has slightly better startup, breaks 1 prime;

-214214C leap distance decreased, now only covers roughly half-screen.

2B->5B is very good, more pressure options for Tao. 214C buff is nice too and the 214214C nerf isn't that bad, but the matchup against Lambda will probably be a little harder now.

214214C is only for trolling purposes, and a Tager jumping right next to you.

[Domethieus]

Tao still looks nice compared to the others lol

[NeoGio0o]

214214C was always for trolling purposes even against Zoner's it really wasn't all that legit unless they are very inexperienced in the match up.

Has the bowling ball change been confirmed?

[KM Riku]

Yes, the bowling ball still breaks prime and is faster.

Anyway, what I posted from the other post:

-5B->6A still doesn't combo on standing characters;

-After a 6B FC, you can j.8D~A 3x;

-You still can combo after a j.C on standing characters (thank god)

-6C hit after j.2D~B/6A (1hit)/j.C (I don't know if it's CH or not, but I think it is)

-After a j.D CH, you still can combo like it was in CS2, but the height change a little.

-AB2 combo: 2A->5B->5C->2C->AB2->5B->6C->Cat2->etc (4500dmg);

-It seems that CA is whiffing against Hazama 5A...so it was probably nerfed (...wat)

---

Also, there was a CSEX stream with a Tao player. Overall, I don't like this new Tao at all...her midscreen stuff is completely boring with basic stuff like 5B->2B->5C->2C->(236A->)5D~A...it's like being only able to only do 1k combos until you hit something like j.D CH or air-to-air CH stuff.Her coner/near-coner combos actually look kinda cool now, specially using 22C, 4D and 6C, but that's it. I don't know if 2B->6A still combos, but I didn't see it once in the stream.

EDIT: From Ushidonburi "タオカカちゃん画面端5Bから6000とか". It seems like can do 6k in coner after a 5B.

EDIT 2: combos from jbbs:

Midscreen standing:

5B->3C->bowling ball oki

5B->5C->Cat1->5D~A

5B->5C->JC->j.B->j.2B->j.C->6A->aerial (works on Litchi, Arakune, Tager, Bang, Hakumen, Valk, Rachel. Need a little delay against Jin, Tsubaki, Mu, Hazama)

5B->3C(RC)->5C->5DB->5C->2D->aerial

5B->5C->2C->5D(RC)->6A->aerial

Midscreen crouching:

5B->6A->J8DA->2D->j.5D~6->j.C->j.9D->j.C->j.9D->j.C->Cat2

Coner standing:

5B->3C->22C->5D->j.D~A->land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->Cat 3->2D~C->j.8D->j.C->j.8D->j.3D->Cat2

5B->3C->22C->5D->j.D~A->land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->AB2->6C->HJC->Cat2->etc

Coner crouching:

5B->5C->6C->5D>j.D~A>land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->Cat 3->2D~C->j.8D->j.C->j.8D->j.3D->Cat2

5B->5C->6C->5D->j.D~A->land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->AB2->6C->HJC->Cat2->etc

EDIT FUCKING 3: Yeah, Tao CA was really nerfed and a lot of jbbs Tao players are complaining about it and that 5B->6A don't work anymore.

[Cryingvoid]

Her corner combo looks very sexy and interesting (from the stream with Dora's Bang). It seems to be harder executed though.

[NeoGio0o]

Wish I could have seen the stream =// How bad the counter assault nerf we talking can we confirm if it's actually punishable on block or is it still -3?

[KM Riku]

I don't know, but from the stream the CA has more recovery.

[NeoGio0o]

Just saw a bit of the archive....

Bowling ball oki is just fake really can't stop the jump out. Still if it breaks a primer I'm fine with it.

Corner Combos look entertaining

Throw combo damage looked really good for day 2

Her CA is definitely punishable now as It looks really stiff when I saw it used

Overall new loop and Tao is still Tao and last but not least J.D counter hit looks lol. Really looking forward to see how satsuno plays her now hopefully he remains faithful.

[XDest]

Can you link us to the archive, actually put it in the new video thread, I'll put up a sticky.

[Cryingvoid]

Guys, is it by any chance possible that later on there will be discovered maybe more powerful combos and paths? Or is it unlikely?

It is no joke having no midscreen damage. Without any zoning tools and casual corner damage it smells of truly a low tier. You saw in the stream how hard he struggled just to confirm shitty <1k stuff? Efforts far beyond the reward he got.

Sorry to sound discouraging, I rarely bitch at nerfs, but I really feel frustrated now.

[NeoGio0o]

The guy looked like he was doing a mix of testing things and sticking to what he knew, his hit confirms were a tad bit auto pilot. Tao's max damage is usually shown very quickly after a new patch. Off of throws she gets far more damage now and her froward throw looked like you can combo roughly anywhere on screen, she still plays the same if you ask me as most of all her damage always came from neutral and some sort of reset mid block string. I can see her relying more on using 5C,6C with 214D and trick edge after 3C for oki, so I don't see getting the opponent in the corner that hard of a task.

Just give it sometime I'm sure more stuff will be shown and the really good Tao's are in the lab discovering best combo paths and getting use to the changes, not to mention their is still AB2.

[KM Riku]

I really don't know. For now, I don't see any buff that could allow a new combo route that could substitute 5B->6A midscreen that is universal and works midscreen on standing. We have the JC->j.B->j.2B->j.C stuff, but the problem is that it doesn't work on every character.

Well, I still think that Tao will be a good character, but she's looking REALLY boring (even more than CS2 Tao), except for her coner stuff...it's like they are taking out everything I liked about Tao since CT.

However, we are still on day 2...who knows what can happen.

[XDest]

She's fine in the corner, and near the corner because of 5C->6C I think.

I'm betting many things still go into 6A, but he was going to 5B out of habit most times, not necessity. Possibly j.C->6A, AnyD~A->6A will still work just because of the amount of hitstun.

And when all else fails at midscreen, there's still 3C->rapid cancel. And of course, if you confirm them crouching there's no problem.

Air-to-Air CH is always going to be fine. Because confirming any air move into 5C->8D~A->2D is still applicable.

[KM Riku]

j.C->6A works fine, any D~A->6A only on CH.