[CSE] Bowling Ball General v:3

[XDest]

Yeah, I meant CH. There's plenty of things we can still do for midscreen damage then.

The biggest problem is definitely 2A, 2B and 5B meterless midscreen. Everything else we used start with is still possible it looks like. But it looks like people are already finding alternatives like the JC->j.B route.

It'll probably turn into something like CS2 Bang, if he's at the range where 623B/j.623B wallbounces (which doesn't have to be directly at the corner, but somewhat near it), his damage potential goes way up. I think CSEX Tao is the same way with 6C, and everything seems to link into it regardless now.

[NeoGio0o]

Yeah, I meant CH. There's plenty of things we can still do for midscreen damage then.

The biggest problem is definitely 2A, 2B and 5B meterless midscreen. Everything else we used start with is still possible it looks like. But it looks like people are already finding alternatives like the JC->j.B route.

It'll probably turn into something like CS2 Bang, if he's at the range where 623B/j.623B wallbounces (which doesn't have to be directly at the corner, but somewhat near it), his damage potential goes way up. I think CSEX Tao is the same way with 6C, and everything seems to link into it regardless now.

My thoughts exactly only thing is we get 3K off of grab setups, so it's not like our damage will be complete CS2 bang tier,truth be told we haven't seen how hard other characters have been hit yet so there is still the possibly that we are all just over reacting and things are better than what they appear to be. Only thing I will miss is 5B,6A burst bait stuff and 214D cross up from any distance, thankfully I have already memorized the distance in which J.C,dash 6A will allow me to combo so I'm fine now.

[XDest]

Well CS2 Bang couldn't air-to-air mid screen meterless for 4k.

We still can.

[Domethieus]

Tao looks super fun again lol. Going to stick to her xD

[Mystic d]

My personal thoughts after first match videos seen: I'm liking this new Tao better. Her midscreen damage was too high compared to the rest of the cast in CS2. To compensate they gave her much strong damage output in the corner. Throws are still very powerful and even better than before. They also gave her slightly harder hit confirms which makes her a little more difficult to play, but at the same time at least everything isn't brain-dead. It should just take a little bit of practice and Tao should be very solid and probably better than before.

Also, Hexa-Edge doesn't wall bounce anymore :/

[NeoGio0o]

One thing I just realized is that now that 5B,6A doesn't combo unless crouching and 3C has too much blowback to go into 236A how are we going to punish DP's mid-screen outside of lol grab combo?. As for her damage she needed it to be high in CS2 as she get's no real oki at all not even BB oki at the end of her combo's,still im fine with her changes.The only thing that is kinda annoying to look at is that as it stands right now your rewarded for not having good execution and playing a complete brain dead character (thanks BB).

Somethings I noticed is that the pink tao player never did j.2D,j.236B he always canceled into j.236B after 9D, also after a raw 6A he only did J8D-A twice and then went for the ender makes me think either that guy is not that good or they changed the proration on some of her stuff. Overall the biggest problem I see besides doing 2K to punish DP's and -9 frame advantage that does not put you in counter hit state mid-screen is the fact Tao does not have two auto pilot universal ground normal's she can throw out to get east hit confirms into solid damage. Ex (Ragna 5B,5C,/Bang 5B,2B/Jin 5B,5C/etc.) What this means is when we do get them in the corner we have no way of getting a hit confirm off of raw 5B so the possible 6K damage off it is meaningless.

Still day 2 was not as bad as it could have been.

[RinHara5aki]

Is there gonna be a combo thread for extend? We should gather combos that we see in videos now for later.

corner -> dash -> 5b -> 3c -> 22c(1hit) -> 5d~5 -> j5.d~a -> 6a -> 4d~a -> 6a -> 236cc -> 2d~9 -> ender ???

[KM Riku]

@NeoGio0o: He did 9D->Cat2 instead of 3D->Cat2 because of j.2D SMP since he already had used it once in the combo. For the 6A->j.8D~A thing, j.8D untechable time decreased (this was already said in this topic)...so you can only do it one or two times in a combo and some you can't even do it. That pink Tao was good, but he is not really used to her because of the 5B change.

My main problem now is that Tao reward on standing opponents is very low in a lot of starters (5B, j.B, 2A, 2B and also is kinda rare to hit crouching people with Tao) and Tao oki and coner corry isn't that good even with 5C->6C on crouching or 3C->tricky edge. Even though j.C still combos into 6A, it's not really easy to hitconfirm it and a blocked 6A makes your pressure options a little more limited. While I think that 3C->236A midscreen needed to be nerfed in this version, I don't really see the reason to take out 5B->6A when the damage after it wasn't that good even with the loop.

But Day 02 anyway, I still have some hope in this matter.

@Rin: in a few pages back, I wrote all those combos from jbbs and some changes/impressions, but nobody seems to care about it lol

[KM Riku]

5B->3C->22C->5D->j.D~A->land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->Cat 3->2D~C->j.8D->j.C->j.8D->j.3D->Cat2 [4023dmg]

5B->5C->j.B->j.2B->j.C->5B->5C->j.B->j.2B->j.C->5B->3C (2hits)>Cat 1>5DA [2122dmg 25 MG] *I don't know if it's character specific or not, but I think it is.

[near coner]6BFC>5C>6C>214D>j.2D~B>6C>5D>j.5D~A>6C>Cat 3>2D>j.C>8D~C>8D>Cat2 [3700dmg]

yeah...her coner damage didn't increase at all and her throw midscreen damage went up by only 100dmg.

[Domethieus]

The changes on Tao looks nice. Her corner combo is going to be fun to mess around with

[XDest]

5B->3C->22C->5D->j.D~A->land->6C->4D~A>land->6C->Cat 3->2D~C->j.8D->j.C->j.8D->j.3D->Cat2 [4023dmg]

5B->5C->j.B->j.2B->j.C->5B->5C->j.B->j.2B->j.C->5B->3C (2hits)>Cat 1>5DA [2122dmg 25 MG] *I don't know if it's character specific or not, but I think it is.

[near coner]6BFC>5C>6C>214D>j.2D~B>6C>5D>j.5D~A>6C>Cat 3>2D>j.C>8D~C>8D>Cat2 [3700dmg]

yeah...her coner damage didn't increase at all and her throw midscreen damage went up by only 100dmg.

At least the combos we have seen posted seem a ton more variant. That's what I really wanted.

If we really need to rapid or have them crouch for midscreen damage on the ground, then fine. For most characters in CS2, this was already the case. Air to air and in the corner we're still looking really good.

[NeoGio0o]

wow that counter assault nerf is just dumb it whiffed on tsubaki 5C, they should have just made it punishable on block as now it's the worst counter assault in the game if you ask me. CSEX Tao looking kinda of a turn off as unique combo's aren't my thing, but my subs and characters I was working on are looking fine so after I recover from being robbed I will definitely be getting this game when it comes out.Hopefully something is discovered soon as I am still optimistic in using Tao for the next game.

Guide to beating Tao in CSEX in America- Always block high as you will block overheads and you won't lose any real health,mash jump back J.C,J.B in neutral as this is called spacing not mashing when done in the air, Mash anti air in the neutral as when it hi'st everyone will think your spacing GDLK.

Last but not least thank you BB for rewarding me for not playing a character with a DP.

[KM Riku]

The new coner combos are cool? Yes, but I have the fear the Tao turns into a coner/near-coner only character when she doesn't have a nice coner carry and oki like Valk. Her standing combos doesn't even reach 2k and you have to spend meter for like...3.5k when other characters does 4k+ using meter.

However, I still have some hope. If this j.B->j.2B->j.C turns out to be universal somehow, this will open a few possibilities.

[Cryingvoid]

Neo, that's a bit how I feel too. But I'm too hyped about my Mu-12 and Relius looking awesome, so not many of hard feelings.

[Domethieus]

Though, think we should create a thread for BBCSEX Tao? At least a place holder for it till more combos gets found/CSEX goes worldwide again...5D~B CH wall bounce looks like it'll be useful for something

[NeoGio0o]

We should probably wait about a week before making any form of combo thread. Let's wait till we pretty much see all the tao's doing roughly the same ender for damage as then we would be able to assume that is the max damage. Right now only tao's we have got to see is the random pink one and satsuno, but making a place holder thread would be good to keep the forum organized.

[XDest]

We should probably wait about a week before making any form of combo thread. Let's wait till we pretty much see all the tao's doing roughly the same ender for damage as then we would be able to assume that is the max damage. Right now only tao's we have got to see is the random pink one and satsuno, but making a place holder thread would be good to keep the forum organized.

Done.

[DeSynBer]

So they took away her only two real combo starters (*b~6a, and 3c), took away her boring loop, which nerfed her damage output, butchered her already bad defensive game by nerfing her CA and taking away the knock back from her hex-edge (which was the only move that gave her any type of real oki game), and with the change of CA taking away primers, even if u do get it off, your still hurting yourself in the long run.

Now even though the new corner combo options do look fun, and that the game is still early to make any precise judgment, tao right now looks like the worst character in the game.

[XDest]

That's such bullshit.

It's one specific situation, and not even one that Taokaka was that great at in the first place. Which is up-close, standing, midscreen. Guess what? Most other characters got that exact same nerf in CS2. Most combos are now in the corner or in the air without meter for most characters. Hell, look at Hazama in CS2, his damage is weak until he gets meter or is in the corner, or does something ground-to-air. CS2 Hazama is no where close to the worst character in the game.

The difference is that we also get really good air-to-air damage as I've been saying. We always have, and that's complimented by Taokaka's great neutral movement game.

I really am repeating myself at this point, so I'll just shut up now.

[Mystic d]

So a thought just occured to me and I'd just like to hear other people's opinions. I feel like the reason they nerfed her CA was to make Tao take a little more risks. Now when under pressure Tao can CA or find a gap (IB mash :3) and Hexa-Edge. Of course you can't Hexa-Edge out of blockstun, but at least you have a little more invincibility frames when you can use it. Hexa-Edge is easily punished though so maybe they nerfed her CA so she doesn't really have a "safe" get out of pressure option?

EDIT: Also, Tao CSX is still looking very solid, so don't worry people. If I had to rank her, as of now, she'd be where she always was, top of A tier

[Mystic d]

Also, does anyone know what we can get off of j.C now? CH and non-CH? Does (non-CH) j.C -> dash -> 5B -> 3C -> 214C work still?

[XDest]

5A, 5B, 2A, 2B, 236C all got damage upgrades. 6B got a huge P1 upgrade (as well as fatal of course).

From the JBBS:

5A 215 80 82　　　※攻撃力　165→215

5B 400 90 86　　　※攻撃力340→400

5C 550 90 89

2A 215 70 82　　　※攻撃力165→215

2B 360 80 86　　　※攻撃力210→360

2C 575 100 89

3C(1)

3C(2)

3C(3)

6B 440 92 87　　　※初段・乗算　70・89→92・87

6A 320*2 70 86(once)

6C 700 80 92

6C最大 1100 80 92

5D 600 70 92

2D

4D 750 90 91　　　※? 乗算92→91　計算ミス？

J5D 550 70 92

J8D

J4D 700 90 92

J2D 600 70 91

猫１ 280 80 80

猫２（１） 380 100 80

猫２（５）

猫３（１） 660 70 92　　　※攻撃力 560→660

猫３（２） 580 70 92

猫３（１）最大 820 70 91　　　※？乗算 92→91　計算ミス？　ダメはCS2と同じ

Also 5B>5C>5D(RC)>6A>J8DA>2D5>J5D6>JC>J8D6>JC>J8D6>J2D6猫２ dm3724

Apparently AB2 combos can get up to 6k now.

So meter is a hell of a lot more used for combos now, since CA and hexa-edge are nerfed. Looks intentional.

[Cryingvoid]

OMFG! Guys, I take my bitching back, Tao does seem to have some nice midscreen damage. It seems to be universally possible to get 2-3k in off even some shitty starters via j.2b > j.c route. I feel a positive vibe. Now we seem to have different 4 general combo-routes (at least): old AtA, j.2b > j.c, to the corner route and corner only route. Our gameplay in BBC SEX might become as entertaining as ever

btw, what hyped me was the latest H.H's stream: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17815188

[KM Riku]

I already posted that combo route a few pages back and it is character specific (last time I saw, it didn't work against Ragna/Lambda/Carl/Noel/Relius) and only work on standing characters.

[Cryingvoid]

Yeah, I remember, but only a video made me pay real attention to it, so just wanted to share my joy And Tao still seems incomplete. Perhaps there are even some more adjustments to be looking forward to.