Eddie vs. Dizzy

[Teyah]

Japanese Matchup Rating (outdated): 6.0

Teyah says: 6.0

General Strategy:

This matchup should basically consist of Dizzy attempting to run away and set up her offense, while Eddie chases and attempts to lock her down with the Shadow. Once she gets enough distance, Dizzy will be summoning fish and spear to discourage empty summoning from fullscreen on your end. At any point during the match when the Shadow gauge is available, your main goal should be to avoid her summons, get in close and force Dizzy to block. Once that happens, you can summon with -S- or -K- to force a mixup series.

Neutral: No Shadow

This is the only point at which Dizzy may try to rush you down unprotected, usually with 5K from the ground or j.2S/j.H from the air. If Dizzy is rushing you while you are summoning, -S- should hit her out of pretty much anything she tries.

While on the ground and without a shadow, Dizzy's rushdown often begins by poking you with the tip of her 5K. This can be very frustrating at first since her 5K goes through your 2S - which is generally Eddie's best poke on the ground - and allows her to combo into 5H xx Ice Spike for easy knockdown and mixup. This can be dealt with in a number of ways: 236S will move your hitbox backwards a bit, allowing you to safely summon and hit Dizzy out of the move. If you do not have gauge available you can try to beat her out at some risk by using a pre-emptive 2K, 22S, 6P, or 5H. 2K is probably best since it is quick to activate and recover, so you the window for punishment on whiff is very small. However it's usually best to just play it safe, and escape via BD or a backwards jump/AD with something to cover you on the way down such as j.K or j.D.

Offense: Shadow Out or Available

As mentioned earlier, at any time you have access to the shadow your goal should be to move in. Make good use of Eddie's IAD and jump -> dj.flight when at medium range - you can adjust your descent to avoid Dizzy's AAs altogether, and most of your jump-ins will beat Dizzy's AA (far 5S or 2S) if you space them properly. Once you're in close, apply general strings to get your shadow out safely (see the Beginner's Eddie Guide for more info). Against Dizzy particularly, quick strings such as 2P-2K, 2P-5H, or even a sole 2P canceled into shadow summon work best to keep you in range to begin your mixup.

At farther ranges, expect Dizzy to try to run away and summon to force you to block, which will remove your Shadow. Your job is to not let this happen. In close, 2H in conjunction with -S- will force Dizzy to the ground. If you're in the air, j.S is very helpful to pin down a Dizzy that is trying to jump off the ground, due to its high vertical range. If Dizzy manages to get high in the air, unsummon the shadow and chase her down. Be patient, as she can and often does change her trajectory with her double AD. Once she lands, have a well placed 2H xx Summon ready, or stay at a close distance and get ready to shadow summon again.

Once you land a hit on Dizzy, using maximum stun combos on her is recommended since she stuns easily. One mixup into a puddle unblockable -> 6P combo followup will often stun her, which most likely means the end of the round.

Defense: Getting Around Dizzy's Summons

Eddie's biggest strength without the shadow in this matchup is his ability to fly and easily manuever around Dizzy's summons. Use flight mode to evade spears and lasers, and once they clear out be ready to move back in. If you are a full screen away and you see Dizzy summoning stuff, running Far Drill FRC works well to knock her out of it and allows you to move in and stall/summon Shadow.

For dealing with fish, you've got a few options. The first and most obvious is to evade via flight as mentioned above. You can also kill the fish early: Eddie's far 5S works great for this, as it comes out quickly, has a large hitbox in front for its first hit, is multiple hits in case Dizzy tries to rush you, and allows you to cancel into Shadow Summon, or Break the Law to reduce recovery.

Staying put and blocking fish is an option that should be avoided whenever possible since that removes your shadow (if it was out) and allows Dizzy to move in for mixup. But being forced into blocking with a fish on top of you will happen at some point, and it is important that you remain patient and do not try to poke out when in this situation. Instead, watch for a throw and be ready with FD jump to escape when you sense it coming.

Antiair:

2H is your main AA in this matchup, due to its great vertical range and good recovery. Once extended, this move is very tough, if not impossible, for Dizzy to beat out or trade with from the air. On connecting with an airborne Dizzy, 2H easily allows you to cancel into 236H -S- which combos on hit, and if they blocked you can then follow with -K- for mixup.

6P is your antiair against Dizzy's IAD j.2S or low AD j.2S. The upperbody invul on 6P can keep you safe from the j.2S if it is done higher, but may lose to it if Dizzy is low to the ground, so be careful of this. 6P also has other uses in close if your Dizzy is being too aggressive, but it is generally not used as an antiair outside of the above scenario.

Conclusion:

Eddie vs. Dizzy is all about breaking through Dizzy's runaway and forcing her to block so you can get off a summon. Since one successful mixup can lead to her death, the threat of shadow summon in this matchup is so great that Dizzy will want to avoid blockstun as much as possible.

As far as damage output goes, Dizzy has to fight for a knockdown in order to work her big damage setups, all of which pale in comparison to Eddie's basic summon, -K-, mixup -> UB game. Dizzy does not deal nearly as much damage on Eddie and has to fulfill many conditions just to set up her mixups while Eddie simply has to summon at close range to shift the advantage to his favour. Dizzy also does not have any unique way of dealing with shadow blockstrings, as she is limited to basic escape options of IB, SB, backdash, and FD jump, all of which can be difficult and risky to use if you vary your shadow timing by even a slight amount. For these reasons, it is clear that Eddie holds a strong advantage in this matchup.

[Tage*Proto]

I'm having trouble timing nobiru on a Air borne dizzy. Her IAD 2s is just too damn good. Should I jsut forgo Nobiru all together here and try a 6p or 2hs?

[Teyah]

Nobiru is too amazing of a move to not use, regardless of who you're facing. Unless you mean naked Eddie -> summon Nobiru, which is way too slow to use on reaction to air dashes and is punishable if done up close. General AA stuffs: Against characters with high-priority air-to-ground normals (eg. Sol j.H, Slayer j.H, Dizzy j.2S/j.H, Chipp j.H, etc etc) I find that pre-emptive AA is usually the better form of antiair to work with. - If you're able to read when they will IAD in, throw a 2H. If it hits, follow with far drill, IAD j.H-D, (sj.K-H-D). - As your opponent wisens up to this, using pre-emptive 2H becomes more risky. 6P can be used on reaction with decent results against most IADs, though this depends on how deep their move hits. - Early running j.K is another early AA option, though this doesn't work on everyone and is often too unsafe to be worth using. Outside of AAs, on reaction you can also use backdash and chicken guard. Though the use of backdash depends on the range/activity of the move in question as well as if your opponent can convert these aerial BD hits into something useful. Chicken guard (jump + IB into the air attack) can work against laggier, unchainable aerial attacks if they were done higher off the ground. And of course, you can always block! All of the above is assuming that you don't have shadow meter, though. If you do, creating space/stun to summon the shadow should take priority over anticpating IADs (unless they IAD at you constantly or something).

[Guardian]

If Eddie command grabs Chipp, Millia, Dizzy, Bridget, I-no or Baiken in the corner with 25% tension, they all die. PERIOD. Eddie is such a broken piece of shit.

[fatewalker]

Teyah also said this in regards to Dizzy in the Dizzy match up forum. hope its of some use.

Just clearing up alot of that info:

Eddie cannot reactionary AA a a timed AD j.2S by Dizzy, as both his AAs get CH during their long startup. j.2S has the range needed to break through his 6P's upperbody invul, and will activate before a 2H done on reaction. If Eddie has shadow out, you should probably not be jumping onto him so -S- is a non-factor AA for the most part as well.

Fullscreen laserfishes stop easymode shadow advances. Summon it if you can; if you can't then use sj. and double AD to buy yourself some time until you can. At fullscreen, ground laserfish will negate the shadow's attacks so take advantage of this. Max height dj.Dizzy cannot be reached by -S- or Eddie 6H, and sj. allows lots of time to delay the ADs to bait out -S-, then work your two airdashes.

Ground laserfish alone kills any immediate threat of Eddie being able to put you into shadow mixup, and coupled with spear it allows you to move in safely. In response to this, Eddie can fly up and away, but a highflying Eddie isn't much of a threat - you can just resummon or cross under him so that he can't attack you on the way down, then make him attack him as he's landing.

Eddie needs roughly 50% shadow meter to get an unblockable setup from a high/low hit (Mawaru #1, mixup, Mawaru #2, puddle, some moving of the shadow inbetween). So most Eddies won't try for the 2D, -D- 22D pseudo-UB setup any earlier than that since there are better options... and risk/rewards favours blocking high or jumping out, the lower that the shadow gauge gets.

Speaking of which, you don't need to FD jump out of that setup either. There's an 8-frame window between the 2D and 22D (20F startup - 12F hitstun), so all you'd have to do is just hold up-back to regular jump and block. No need to FD the FB Drill in air either, it's regularly blockable.

Eddie cannot 6P -> wait for recovery -> charge IK -> activate IK... unless the opponent isn't mashing like at all. The only feasible IK setups are after near-zero recovery moves, such as an IAD j.S-H.. but you can't really plan for those.

Eddie vs Dizzy is skewed in Eddie's favour, but it's still doable. Dizzy's normals still beat Eddie out on the ground, it's just that the threat of shadow summon means that she wants to avoid blockstun as much as possible. Eddie is still susceptible to Dizzy's great oki and fish lockdowns, so you just have to play it safe to get yourself into these positions as much as possible.

fear my Dizzy punk!

[Teyah]

Oh right, that post.. after some experimentation, I see that a bit of that info is off:

Eddie cannot 6P -> wait for recovery -> charge IK -> activate IK... unless the opponent isn't mashing like at all. The only feasible IK setups are after near-zero recovery moves, such as an IAD j.S-H.. but you can't really plan for those.

Depending on how fast you are at hitconfirming a stun, you can IK from a 6P. So puddle usually = GGPO Dizzy

And regarding my reply to that 2D, 22D + -D- UB setup, it's somewhat irrelevant since a more common setup now is 2P-2H-22D + -D-. This sort-of-blockable technique has seen lots of discussion over on the Chipp boards of all places. It starts here and spans a couple of pages, it's a good read for knowing where your gaps lie.

[Teyah]

Moving some defensive notes from the matchups thread: Vs Jam, Dizzy, Millia.. basically any character who spends a decent amount of time in the air: Defense is key. - Avoid spamming drills at neutral, this will get horribly eaten by an opponent who sees the huge opening for an IAD. - Limit your air time. Avoid flight in close; chances are that your opponent will have far better priority/more damaging setups/better reward from random air to air hits than you. Superjumps can still be a good way to move around if you have to, provided you're not predictable with when/where/if you airdash. Covering yourself with j.K near the landing of your sj is usually safe. Regular jump-back j.D mixed with jump-back, AD back j.K cover is another movement option you have. - Watch for predictable air patterns from mid-far range, throw out early Shadow Summon -> Nobiru when you see your opponent jump and suspect a followup dj or late AD. Risk/reward is in Eddie's favour since on CH, your followup 6P(2) -> shadow combo leads to about one third of their life + good stun damage. If spaced correctly, this is hard to punish well on whiff since the Nobiru takes up so much space and may even act as a meat shield. The alternative to Shadow Summon S is try for an early 6P/2H antiair... both of which are much faster, but leave you open to if your opponent just lands and doesn't AD or move in. And of course, you can always just reposition yourself if you want, as explained above..

[Teyah]

Copying some posts over from the Dizzy forum that discuss the other side of this matchup:

Oh yeah, right, piece of cake... which eddie players have you played?? Eddie dominates Dizzy in all aspects. Choose from 2S, eddie S, 6H, 6P, all of them will own your air game. On the ground, your only hope for survival is to kill little eddie asap, which usually won't happen because Dizzy has NO pokes that will do this (unless the eddie you are playing against sucks and doesn't manage his little eddie well). Oftentimes I sacrafice 25% tension using icespike frc just to kill little eddie. Once he even touches you (even if you are blocking) and he has eddie out, you're pretty much dead. No viable options to escape his pressure (you could risk IB > backdash but you will probably fail and eat a low attack instead), which means pressure into unblockable into knockdown into puddle into dizzy into instant kill. I don't know how many times i've eaten 100% from my local eddie player just from 1 hit, and that doesn't even involve becoming dizzied!! Dizzy is the easiest character in the cast to become dizzy, and eddie's 6P while you're held = 90% guaranteed dizzy = no chance. And throwing him out of his command throw? I don't know how you manage that, everytime I've tried I eat the throw since his command throw range is farther than my throw range. Only option if you see it coming is to FD jump.

TIP: icespike that little eddie!!!!!!11111@@

TIP: if he catches you in puddle, burst before he can 6P > 6P > 6P = dizzied = instant kill

Her j.2S doesn't beat any of his anti airs from my experience. His little eddie S can reach you at superjump range. When you manage to escape and get him on the other side of the screen, his neutral summon little eddie advance is too good: you can't poke it (except icespike), you can rarely jump away (eddie S, and if you manage to get by that where will you land? he's now got both sides of the screen covered), you can't airdash towards him (eddie S), usually you will end up eating a hit or blocking it, which means a rushdown from eddie.

Also, while you're stuck in his mid-pressure screen and he does his drill/eddie D unblockable, it's true that you can FD jump to avoid the unblockable, but will you be able to see it coming? if you're trying to expect it, then you most likely won't be blocking low, which means it'll be easy for him to break your guard into combo > puddle > unblockable > 6p6p6p > dizzy > IK. If you do somehow have the ability to see it coming most of the time (more power to you) and FD jump, you'll still end up wasting quite a bit of tension especially if he uses his FB drill.

Also, no matter how much you wiggle you won't be able to escape his IK. The recovery from 6P isn't that much, he can go right into IK mode since he's standing, plus he's right next to you. I'm certain no matter how good you are at shaking you won't be able to avoid it.

I'm not saying this match is impossible for Dizzy, but in my opinion this matchup is mostly in favor of eddie. Eddie also takes a lot of damage, so as long as you get that knockdown things will go your way. I wouldn't spend a lot of time in the air for this matchup, unless you're trying to escape his little eddie (good luck, you'll still get hit even if you superjump).

Easier than axl, harder than faust.

Just clearing up alot of that info:

Eddie cannot reactionary AA a a timed AD j.2S by Dizzy, as both his AAs get CH during their long startup. j.2S has the range needed to break through his 6P's upperbody invul, and will activate before a 2H done on reaction. If Eddie has shadow out, you should probably not be jumping onto him so -S- is a non-factor AA for the most part as well.

Fullscreen laserfishes stop easymode shadow advances. Summon it if you can; if you can't then use sj. and double AD to buy yourself some time until you can. At fullscreen, ground laserfish will negate the shadow's attacks so take advantage of this. Max height dj.Dizzy cannot be reached by -S- or Eddie 6H, and sj. allows lots of time to delay the ADs to bait out -S-, then work your two airdashes.

Ground laserfish alone kills any immediate threat of Eddie being able to put you into shadow mixup, and coupled with spear it allows you to move in safely. In response to this, Eddie can fly up and away, but a highflying Eddie isn't much of a threat - you can just resummon or cross under him so that he can't attack you on the way down, then make him attack him as he's landing.

Eddie vs Dizzy is skewed in Eddie's favour, but it's still doable. Dizzy's normals still beat Eddie out on the ground, it's just that the threat of shadow summon means that she wants to avoid blockstun as much as possible. Eddie is still susceptible to Dizzy's great oki and fish lockdowns, so you just have to play it safe to get yourself into these positions as much as possible.

[Double]

What would eddie's mindset be in the start of the match? i mean, would he try a ground normal or something to get dizzy in blockstun right away or would he take the backseat (i would be inclined to iad backwards away from eddie, but i wonder if icespike, though risky, would be an option here because i "think" its faster than eddie's normals at that range).

[Teyah]

Eddie's 2K will CH almost anything Dizzy tries as an opening attack (including Icespike) which he can then combo to 22H for knockdown -> shadow summon -K-. Except for her 2H, which trades with 2K, but Eddie can deal with that by doing anything other than 2K and then punishing Dizzy on whiff. Not really a good idea for Dizzy to try to be beating Eddie's normals without some cover or frame advantage. Icespike is actually pretty slow and it can't beat out Eddie's normals up close, but it can be used from farther away as a poke provided you can FRC it. If you don't FRC, Eddie can punish it with a 22H on block. Most Dizzys backdash or jump back at the beginning, and so Eddie can either choose to follow her, or just back off a bit himself so he can summon the shadow and then advance. Also just tested some stuff out, found that Eddie can deal 100% damage to Dizzy from anywhere on the screen if he gets one knockdown w/50% tension, and Dizzy has no Burst: ...2D xx 236H, -D-, 22D, -K-, j.SG FRC, -H- j.H + puddle (UB), 6P(2), 6P(2), r.6P(2)-5S-6P(2) - stunned r.5S-2H xx 22D, rsj.K-S-H-D Dizzy should die somewhere in the third combo (from full health).

[Hellmonkey]

If Eddie command grabs Chipp, Millia, Dizzy, Bridget, I-no or Baiken in the corner with 25% tension, they all die. PERIOD.

Eddie is such a broken piece of shit.

don't know why you posted this here, and this is only (partially) true if he has eddie meter.

[Guardian]

don't know why you posted this here, and this is only (partially) true if he has eddie meter.

It was posted in another thread that got ported to this one.

And when is eddie ever w/o shadow meter? lol

[vxnine]

It was posted in another thread that got ported to this one.

And when is eddie ever w/o shadow meter? lol

when you kill it or it runs out