[CSE] Noel Final Changes

[Chaoschao222]

First Loketest (Joketest):

Loketest II (Return Of The Joketest)

Final Build

Buffs:

• Assault Through; Causes corner blowback on normal hit, wallbound on counter hit, wallbounce on CH for followup midscreen
  
• Assault Through; Causes slide down state on hit when not near edge of screen, increased untech time
  
• Chain Revolver; Drive starters can be cancelled into specials (ie: 5D > OB is possible, 5D > d.6D > OB is not)
  
• Haida; Now holdable (22 rather than mash)
  
• Revolver Blast; Damage increased to 400 each hit
  
• Revolver Blast; You can jump after an RC (meaning IAD > RB > RC > jump is legit )
  
• j.B; Better horizontal hitbox
  
• j.D; Repeat proration buffed from 40% to 60%
  
• d.6C; Untech time increased to 32f
  
• j.D; Projectile invul added
  
• Throw; Cancelable into specials again
  
• Spring raid; Can now combo after it even from midscreen with j.b. If SR launches low, you can combo into (a high) 6C. Untechable time decreased.
  
• j.C; Proration (P2) buffed to 89 (once)
  
• 5A/2A/j.A; Damage increased to 300
  
• j.B; Damage increases to 460
  
• j.D; Proration changed from 92 to 92 (once)
  
• Assault Through; Untechable time increased to 32f
  
• Assault Through; Frame advantage increased to -8
  
• 4D;
  

  gdlk: head, body and projectile invulnerability, get bodied, waifus purged, madness returned.

  
  
  Neutral Changes/Confusing Shit:
  
  • 5D; Invul at 5-15f
    
  • Optic Barrel; No change in start-up as previously thought
    

  Nerfs:

  [*]6C; Second hit cancel window reduced. 6C > BC (whiff) > 6C no longer works

  [*]Chain Revolver; Slower overall, more like CS1

  [*]"Various" Drive moves can no longer be cancelled into specials. Drive Specials (AT, BT, SR), Distortions, and Valkyrie Veil can still be cancelled into.

  [*]d.6D; No longer moves Noel forward (blows up our oki)

  [*]6A > 2B chain removed

  [*]5C; Startup time increased

  [*]5C; P2 decreased to 89

  [*]j.4d; Untechable time decreased

  [*]Fenrir; Minimum damage down to ~700

  [*]Fenrir~Nemesis Stabilizer; Opponent falls faster, double Fenrir no longer possible, no oki midscreen

  [*]Silencer; Repeat proration added to starting hit (B and C)

  [*]j.B; Vertical hitbox decreased

  [*]Haida; Less heat given

  [*]5C/2C; Level decreased to 3

  [*]2C; Nerfed to +1

  [*]4D; Horizontal hitbox decreased

  [*]2A; Supposed longer startup and recovery

  [*]Bloom Trigger; Vertical hitbox decreased. Causes first hit to occasionally whiff

  [*]Assault Through; 30% repeat proration

  [*]3C; Frame advantage reduced to -18

  [*]2D P1 reduced to 80

  [*]j.D; damage reduced to 350 (each hit)

  [*]B Haida; 80% repeat proration, but only on the first hit

  [*]Bloom Trigger; Untechable time on 2nd hit reduced to 35f

  [*]Nemesis Stabilizer; Raw damage reduced to 3.6k

[LiveWireX]

You know, this is going to sound weird and it could be because it's 2:40 AM, but I don't remember ever using/knowing about a 6A>2B chain in the first place. If anything, I'd think it would be Muzzle Flitter>2B>6A, as opposed to the 6A before the 2B. And that 6C>Throw Whiff>6C being taken out when it's been there through all of the previous games sounds like it could be quite sad if it winds up sticking.

[LunaKage]

You know, this is going to sound weird and it could be because it's 2:40 AM, but I don't remember ever using/knowing about a 6A>2B chain in the first place. If anything, I'd think it would be Muzzle Flitter>2B>6A, as opposed to the 6A before the 2B. And that 6C>Throw Whiff>6C being taken out when it's been there through all of the previous games sounds like it could be quite sad if it winds up sticking.

6A > 2B was a huge part of how our AA OS worked, and with it gone we will be taking a huge risk whenever we go to anti-air.

[TrueGunnerShadow]

I reading stuff from the Noel jbbs. http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1307359200/l50

If only I know what they are saying.

[Chaoschao222]

Few more things added from this morning's stuff

[Setsuna]

5D back to CS1 invinc ... me like

[Eng_08]

6A > 2B was a huge part of how our AA OS worked, and with it gone we will be taking a huge risk whenever we go to anti-air.

At least there's still 6A > 5B and 6A > 6C at point blank, so no guaranteed punish on blocked 6A.

But i agree with you. It's a shame.

[LunaKage]

Having Chao run this thread was a good idea.

[KraaL]

So basically, midscreen drive opener will get us 1 drive serie, SR, air combo instead of 2 drive series. That's a way of lowering midscreen damage.

I hope optic barrel will remain usable, loving it currently.

[Atreides]

Well going with what's available so far, if drive damage is more or less the same, then Noel is more or less consistent with other characters. Simple combo like 5D/2D > d.5C > d.5D > d.6A > d.6C > 236D does about 2700-2800 with corner push. Doing the 623D ender nets 400-500 more, but loses corner push and corner advantage. 3.2k mid screen isn't that bad. 5D CH has enough time to reload and do 214A, and depending on how haida-able the person is, gets about 4.3k+ damage. Doing stuff like 2D/5D/4D > 6A > 6C > RC > 214A gets about the damage we get now and a net meter of -10 or so. I know this is the first loketest and all, but changes don't seem so bad.

[Arcknight]

Does 5D still have that awful slide forward? They can remove that and I would not be sad to see it go. I also never knew d.6D moved Noel forward any. Nor did I know that 6A linked into 2B.

[LunaKage]

Well going with what's available so far, if drive damage is more or less the same, then Noel is more or less consistent with other characters. Simple combo like 5D/2D > d.5C > d.5D > d.6A > d.6C > 236D does about 2700-2800 with corner push. Doing the 623D ender nets 400-500 more, but loses corner push and corner advantage. 3.2k mid screen isn't that bad. 5D CH has enough time to reload and do 214A, and depending on how haida-able the person is, gets about 4.3k+ damage. Doing stuff like 2D/5D/4D > 6A > 6C > RC > 214A gets about the damage we get now and a net meter of -10 or so. I know this is the first loketest and all, but changes don't seem so bad.

Note however that they did say that drive has slowed down, so all of our CS2 drive chains may not work anymore.

[LiveWireX]

Yeah, they said it's back to CT levels, but it's been so long since I played CT that I can't for the life of me remember what that was like. I'm just hoping we can still 6A>6C as someone said before. Plus, I'm curious to hear more about if Optic Barrel's still going to have similar/same uses, and how many drives and things can't be canceled into special moves because that d.6C>214A bit has served me well on multiple occasions.

[Lythium]

It actually says in the changes listed in the OP that it's been slowed to CS1 speed.

[LiveWireX]

Thanks, though I guess I'm not that surprised.

[Remius]

[*]5D; Lolinvul increased back to CS1 levels

Hehehe...HAHAHA....

.......BWAHAHAHA

Yeah, they said it's back to CT levels, but it's been so long since I played CT that I can't for the life of me remember what that was like.

See an attack coming > lol5D -> CH combo

It was hard to get right because only the starting frames were invul, but if you timed it right, it fucked people over because many people always seem to forget at crucial moments that noel could do that.

Basically, it was the source of CT Noel's "noobcannon" status.

[skd]

6A > 2B was a huge part of how our AA OS worked, and with it gone we will be taking a huge risk whenever we go to anti-air.

kind of late, but not really lol

6A 965B (react to airdash with jD) is a better OS

" Spring raid; Can now combo after it even from midscreen with j.b. Untechable time decreased.

CR5C>214D combos in the corner (no clue what this means or how/if it helps us)

"

Spring raid thing is def a nerf standalone, but coupled in with the next change it may not be that bad. Short air combos dont help in the damage/meter department much if at all. Sure, you can get some more damage off of light confirms with like jA jC(1) jD 623D but "jB connecting" as a note makes me think of it like the nerf on ragna's keriage. for a midscreen followup, you have to go right into air attacks I doubt 6C will connect unless its really low proration or something.

the CR5C connecting with 214D means 5C gives more hitstun, or some radical change to how 214D works. i assume 214D is getting a huge revamp, as a bunch of changes are being made to it. Due to spring raid being nerfed in the hitstun department, 214D might take its place for corner combos?

[LunaKage]

kind of late, but not really lol

6A 965B (react to airdash with jD) is a better OS

I dunno about that, because if it doesn't counter hit and you "react to airdash" with j.D, then you just wiffed a j.D(assuming your opponent techs) and now you're in drive with your opponent in the perfect position to sodomize you.

The 6A > 2B OS is so much safer for every situation:

Blocked 6A > 2B is neutral.

Non CH 6A cannot be combo'd from this, but puts you at advantage, for another 6A setup or an airgrab.

CH 6A > 2B can be combo'd from anywhere, and needing to 2A > 6C doesn't really sacrifice too much damage considering it's an A move.

I mean I'm sure your OS has it's advantages but I just don't see it myself.

[skd]

I dunno about that, because if it doesn't counter hit and you "react to airdash" with j.D, then you just wiffed a j.D(assuming your opponent techs) and now you're in drive with your opponent in the perfect position to sodomize you.

The 6A > 2B OS is so much safer for every situation:

Blocked 6A > 2B is neutral.

Non CH 6A cannot be combo'd from this, but puts you at advantage, for another 6A setup or an airgrab.

CH 6A > 2B can be combo'd from anywhere, and needing to 2A > 6C doesn't really sacrifice too much damage considering it's an A move.

I mean I'm sure your OS has it's advantages but I just don't see it myself.

well i didnt strictly mean react to airdash with jD, my baaaaad :[ but there are times when using the move where you KNOW its going to CH, and at the same time it isnt difficult at all to react to CH. If you end up doing IAD you land right in front of them as they tech assuming its back or neutral, i believe you can do that same 6A again business. aaaaaand 6A airdash is 3k damage ;_; Plus, cant you get jA'd pretty easily assuming that they block 6A and you whiff 2B? <_< 6A 965B does 5B (which is air unblockable, JCable, and has a higher hitbox) which gives you more opportunity to keep up pressure. You can mixup and pressure after they block an ANTI AIR with another chance to hit them with an air unblox. and just JC into jAAA blah blah blah do whatever you want.

6A 2B being neutral as a point in your favor is kind of weird considering the fact that the use of 6A is for AA and 2B is really low lol. 2B is 21f in entirety and 6A being blocked and whiffing 2B puts you at -2 if im remembering things correctly. 6A is level 3, right? And this is disregarding instant blocking

so all in all my reasons for believing 6A > 5B to be a better gatling

-better pressure assuming its blocked, without a chance for them to gain momentum. Much safer alternative than doing 6A 2B whiff and trying to resume pressure.

-hitconfirms into more damage overall (maybe, i dont know good 6A combos. i currently run 6A IAD jD 6D 236A dash 6C 22B 22BBBBBBC dash dash 6C 4D 5D/6A 5C 6C 5D 236D. I think it works on everyone barring arakune? 3169)

-Double air unblock is kind of a benefit?

assuming you react to CH (which isnt hard at all, haha) 6A 965B deeeeelivurz.

the only time i use 6A 2B is going into corner if i want to double fenrir :v

6A airdash jD/5B OS can be done from anywhere, is better than 6A 2B assuming it gets blocked in the air, and still has you in an adv position. you can do some dirty stuff after the air techs, if you think theyre going to neutral tech and mash out after you do 6A IAD you can set up a pretty meaty 6C~2D. If it whiffs, you are probably going to be sad but if you guess right, thats 5k <_< If you are close to corner the second hit might nab them too haha.

but losing 6A 2B is definitely a nerf, i liked it for pressure (on the ground) but in terms of anti air it isnt really a huge loss.

fuckin huge BUY MY PRODUCT post

[Runis]

Neutral Changes/Confusing Shit:

• CR5C>214D combos in the corner (no clue what this means or how/if it helps us)
  

imo it means that since 214D has the corner blowback, you should be able to do d.5D 214D 66 2B 6C to continue combo

[Gemakai]

If the Drive speed is as fast as CS1 then I'm not too concerned. So long Noel has a general at least 2.5k midscreen meterless combo (which it's looking like she still will), then I'll still be playing her. A good number of the changes do suck though, but I'm sure like with the change from CT to CS, we'll find new ways to do impressive things.

[LunaKage]

fuckin huge BUY MY PRODUCT post

I'll have 2B wiff very rarely, I guess it's because I love dem balls deep anti airs, but most of the time when my 6A is blocked, my 2B is blocked as well. In those rare events where 2B does wiff though, I still get my pressure, because my opponents are still on the defensive, while it's true that they CAN mash out, I've never had it happen where they DID mash out, it's kinda the same reason the 5A > 6B/214A mixup works, sure both can be mashed out of easily with the same shit, but no one does it because they are afraid of Noel CHing you with something else.

Though I guess I better start practicing the 6A > IAD AA due to the CS2+ Change :C

[Runis]

In terms of meter-less damage what i can see in terms of combos is something along the lines of 2D d.6A d.6C d.6D d.2D 623D sj j.B jc j.B j.C j.236C for about 3.3k'ish

if we want to be fancy and rapid cancel - 2D d.6A d.6C rc 214A 2B 6C. Insert Haida loop. 4-5k combo.

If we predict a move and counter hit with 5D: - CH 5D, Reload, 663C, Insert Haida Loop. 4-5K combo.

We'll still have damage options off of 3C unless they change the hitbox on 22B to only ever hit a grounded opponent, that is the only change that will kill Haida loop, so if you see that change, Noel's max damage just went down a fuckton.

This is just speculation based on current data however.

[LunaKage]

While it hasn't been mentioned yet, I can almost guarantee that Haida will either no longer be possible, or completely changed somehow, since they are actively trying to remove loops from the game. However like I said, nothing has been mentioned about it yet.

[Chaoschao222]

Since loketest 2 is coming up soon, maybe we'll hear something on it.