[CSE] Noel Final Changes

[LunaKage]

I use 22BBBBC and 22C in the same combo in CS2. It sets up so much different stuff.

I wonder if its possible to set up a 22(B)~BB mid combo if we land a 6C after a Spring raid (Since they're higher than normal)

Oh you mean land a followup 22B but not the starter? I dunno since they might tech before they get low enough for it to hit.

[Runis]

I know its possible in the 6C(2) combo, but I'm wondering if we can do something with it normally, _{(AKA REVERSE HAIDA! Easier on small Chars, Harder on big ones.) Chances are you'd need to do 6A>6C to get them to the right height to loop it though.}

[LunaKage]

We'll see, experimentation is the best part of a new game.

[Setsuna]

So who here is going to import BBCSEX in december ?

[HexaNoid]

If I have the money to do so, I will.

[TrueGunnerShadow]

So who here is going to import BBCSEX in december ?

I am. Trophy hunting first then Netplay.

EDIT: Well, um....... Don't expect me to netplay BB a lot.

[LunaKage]

These posts are more suited to the General thread.

[HexaNoid]

Ending our combos with d.6B/5C look like they give us the same pseudo-oki as OpticB whiff does now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gTxD25O4W1A#t=335s

Also, j.D going through/eating bursts looks like it requires a particular timing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yuesj8vVBNo#t=927s

[LiveWireX]

Wait....Optic Barrel whiff oki? Weird, I wonder how that's going to play out.

[HexaNoid]

Wait....Optic Barrel whiff oki? Weird, I wonder how that's going to play out.

Well how it works now is that you do XX > d.5C > OpticB(w) and you recover slightly before they tech allowing you to apply pressure or something with 5A. Obviously we can't do that any more since drive moves aren't special cancelable, so this is our alternative it seems.

[Ichipoo]

Wait....Optic Barrel whiff oki? Weird, I wonder how that's going to play out.

What Hex said.

And you can watch Luna putting OB whiff Oki in action here.

[Chaoschao222]

New developments suggest 4D might be gdlk, waiting on confirmation.

[KraaL]

There was this case of 4D eating Belial Edge, is there anything more ?

[LunaKage]

There was this case of 4D eating Belial Edge, is there anything more ?

I saw 4D beating a low j.C from Makoto. Which definitely was low enough to hit 4D's old hurtbox.

[LunaKage]

Couple of things:

4D is most certainly godlike, it pretty much dominates everything in the air, and a bunch of stuff on the ground as well, just to give you an idea, it even goes through Arakune j.B.

Optic Barrel doesn't feel any slower, if it is slower then it's only by a small couple of frames.

Cancel window for 6C is the same as it ever was, which is how do my SR > 6C > 236A combos, by delaying 236A a ton.

2A supposedly had a startup nerf, I can't feel it at all.

5C had a startup nerf too, can't feel that either.

C moves had a level decrease, the only time that I felt the effects of this was when I landed a crouching 2C and could not combo into 2A, but it's JUST as good for pressure as it was in CS2, you just can't easily confirm it like you could before.

5C > TK Thor is just as easy to connect as it was before, I suppose it's just because I was good at it, because the level nerf made the timing a bit more unforgiving, but I didn't feel the difference, SO JUST BE ON YOUR GAME.

2D got a heavy proration nerf, but it's not too bad, she gets a consistent 2.5k off of it midscreen(2.3k if it was a crossup 2D) and it leads to 3.5k-3.7k in the corner, all meterless. With 50 heat for a Rapid > MF you can get 4k easy midscreen on characters that MF > 2B > 6C > 22B actually works on, oh yeah and that reminds me...

Losing throw wiff sucks, and it's never more apparent then when you're fighting Makoto or Lambda or any character who just doesn't like you, after a Muzzle Filter, half the cast cannot be hit with 22B, so for these characters it's usually best to just RC > 3C for extra damage, at least until further testing can be done. For those of you who enjoyed doing MF > 662B though, the alternative is: RC > MF > 662B > 6C > 236A > 6C > 22B (Tested on Makoto).

After an airgrab certain characters who could not be hit by 22B after muzzle filter can now, due to airgrab putting your opponent a tad bit farther away than MF, but for those that it still doesn't work on, just do 2B > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D Ender, unless you are close enough to the ground to do 662B, then you can do the combo I mentioned earlier.

j.D in an air combo, I haven't had a lot of time to fuck around in training mode, but what I've been doing with it so far is very inconsistent, it's very height dependent, seems like both you AND your opponent need to be at the perfect height to follow up with an air combo j.D, but whenever I did get it I had some fun follow ups, like j.A > j.B > dj.C > dj.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.214D > Wall Bound > 6C(2) > 6C > 4D > d.236D as an example, so it may not be very consistent right now, but it's definitely something that can't be glossed over.

Revolver Blast, seems like Mori loves RB this time around, the damage increase is apparent in the sole fact that it allows j.A > j.B > dj.B > dj.C > dj.236C to do 1.6k, that's like Ragna doing Hells Fang combos off of 5A. Because of this and the 6C > 2B nerf, j.A has been my go-to anti air for now, makes me look like a Jin player honestly. Oh yeah and...

6A > 2B jnvkjsnkijshvihjd Yeah we don't have it anymore, and it sucks monkey balls, but I did find a replacement that's only a tad worse, 6A > Throw wiff. It works pretty much the same way: CH you get to combo, normal hit you still don't, if they block in the air your throw wiffs and depending on your opponent you get more pressure or you get hit in the mouth. Same general shit as 6A > 2B, but there are two big differences: First off if you get a tip-toe CH on a fucker like Valk, you don't get to follow up, if you can I just haven't been able to do it yet, Secondly, if you're opponent blocks 6A while he's on the ground, he gets Purple Grabbed, which I guess if he gets hit by it than good for you, but more than likely he'll break the grab, so just be prepared for this and know what to do in this situation.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Dorian]

Good shit luna.

[BatousaiJ]

Hai Noel dudes.

I have some extend question for ya to better understand this match up a bit.

4D as I've read definitely seems to have a better hit box(delaying j.C will just trade with it instead of beating it now).

I'm guessing 4D still has no feet invul still? It seems dashing in with 2A or 2B with Tsu was able to stuff it.

Also thinking throw should work as well to stuff it?

Wake up 2D should go over any low move I can throw at it like 2A, 2B and also should go over throws as well but at this point it's better off getting hit by 2D than 4D it feels like in the whole risk vs reward thing.

Lastly, assault through seemed more difficult to punish after block(definitely couldn't get a CH combo afterwards anyway), what's the approximate frames on block after that now and what kind of invul does that have and for how long?

Thanks ahead of time~

[LunaKage]

Hai Noel dudes.

I have some extend question for ya to better understand this match up a bit.

4D as I've read definitely seems to have a better hit box(delaying j.C will just trade with it instead of beating it now).

I'm guessing 4D still has no feet invul still? It seems dashing in with 2A or 2B with Tsu was able to stuff it.

Also thinking throw should work as well to stuff it?

Wake up 2D should go over any low move I can throw at it like 2A, 2B and also should go over throws as well but at this point it's better off getting hit by 2D than 4D it feels like in the whole risk vs reward thing.

Lastly, assault through seemed more difficult to punish after block(definitely couldn't get a CH combo afterwards anyway), what's the approximate frames on block after that now and what kind of invul does that have and for how long?

Thanks ahead of time~

4D is essentially immune to air moves during the frames that it has invuln now, it's still beaten by throw and low hitting moves though, it's best to not challenge it in the air however, since if timed right it can beat anything you throw at us.

2D beats everything that 4D doesn't, but don't get comfy that it only does 2.5 meterless, since we can still choose to get 4+k off of 2D if we use some meter mid combo, and it's easy to bait bursts if we hit muzzle filter, so don't think you just got a free way to make us waste 50 heat either~

Assault Through has definitely gotten better, you can still punish it with 5B, but you can't get a CH combo or anything like that on block, you can still hit us after we move to your other side though, so if you're feeling ballsy you can CH us before we connect, but if you time it wrong it's just a free CH combo for us as well, just remember that.

[BatousaiJ]

Our 5B is significantly slower, I'm not sure if it'll be sufficiently fast enough to punish. Quick dash 5A might be better but I'm not entirely sold on either just yet. I'll try to instant block/block and barrier block it later and see what's the proper punish for it since Noel players seem to end their combos on this like it's unblockable for some reason.

Assault Through is wall bounce on CH? I might be able to beat it with a quick reaction 2A but like you said, it's probably not worth the risk.

Tsu still has 6C that is basically our Ragna 5D answer to Noel's wake up D shenanigans so I'm not too worried about playing the guessing game with wake up Noel when it comes down to it but it's good to know Noel can RC into 4k+ off 2D. So I don't sleep on it.

4D anti air is going to be a pain to deal with making me think twice about jc resets in pressure. I'll see what I can do about it if any.

Is there any change to j.4D in extend or is it still the same as before.

Thanks for the info, Luna~

[LunaKage]

WHAT? YOU'RE SAYING ASSAULT THROUGH ISN'T UNBLOCKABLE??? lol Hey man, if the move is godlike it would be dumb NOT to spam it~

Yeah we get an easy 3+k on CH Assault Through midscreen, even more in the corner obviously.

j.4D is the same as far as countering goes, it got some changes, but none that you need to worry about really. Just don't get fataled by it, we still get 4k midscreen off of fatal j.4D lol.

Also take note that if you are anywhere close to the corner, our D moves hurt like a bitch even meterless, I get a consistent 3.5k meterless off of Corner 2D, no matter which one of us is in the corner, 2D also took a heavy proration nerf, so if you get hit with a D that isn't 2D, you're gonna get hit much harder, even on normal hit, 4D and j.4D get about 3.2k midscreen and "fuck my life" damage in the corner, 5D is in the middle somewhere, but you don't wanna get hit with it lol.

[BatousaiJ]

So you're saying, expect more D mashing Noel players.

And God is in his heaven and all is well with the world~

[LunaKage]

So you're saying, expect more D mashing Noel players.

And God is in his heaven and all is well with the world~

You asked about her D moves, not about anything else :3

And no, you can expect less D mashing Noel players, because she's not top tier anymore, expect more B mashing Ragna players though ;3

[BatousaiJ]

Expect it?

I've already seen it!

No big whoop though. The best way to crush a scrubedge player's spirit is to play as him yourself and rape them in a mirror match to show them just exactly how easy it is to do.

Preferably with a few BK > DbD.

Thanks for the info all the same though. I shall return when I have more questions to ask.

[LunaKage]

No problem. Maybe in return you can contribute to the "Vs Tsubaki" thread when we make the Extend matchup threads sometime in the future.

[BatousaiJ]

Sure, why not.

Here's a small preview.

Save your burst for Mugen. That shit hurts.