[CS2] Ragna Tutorial Video

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Watching part 1 now. Will have detailed opinions later.

I really wish people would just stop using the term 'abare'.

[Final Ultima]

Well, it was certainly informative and not particularly difficult to follow, which already makes it miles better than anything I could churn out. If anything though, I felt that it could've done with a couple more light-hearted segments (like the part with Ragna getting Astral'd for sticking his foot out, or the bonus footage at the end) just to break up all the information.

In regards to the information itself... a brief block strings/frame traps section wouldn't have gone amiss during the segment where you talked about needing to get creative with Ragna to land hits. I don't necessarily mean a "do X blockstring" sort of thing, but just an expansion on the mixup ideas you brought up in the video.

Just my two cents. Great work, at any rate.

[KayEff]

http://shoryuken.com/2011/09/26/bbcs2-dustloop-community-ragna-tutorial/

video's a hit success!

...until you get to the comments

[Reamatsu]

lol, Ragna getting called out on tutorial. I know plenty of players that actually need it. They have a better chance learning Makoto before returning back to Ragna.

[LuminAbyss]

"does ragna really need a tutorial video..? seriously lol "

This guy probably mains Ken.

[Final Ultima]

http://shoryuken.com/2011/09/26/bbcs2-dustloop-community-ragna-tutorial/

video's a hit success!

...until you get to the comments

That's SRK for you.

[a Lisianthus]

not sure if its in the video

but its worth noting that its a good idea to delay tsuika/ID upper punch to put them closer to corner.

[Sharakonta]

Kayeff as I said in the IRC there's a Bit of an error in part 2 of the tutorial

Time 2:19 combo starter 5B against Rachel, you've got the damage notation wrong

[Dozer1170]

"I mained Ragna until I quit BB when CS2 came out. They made him TERRIBLE. Belial Edge is horrible now, Devoured by Darkness does crappy damage now, his followup to Inferno Divider only wallbounces near corner now?!" .....seriously?

Some people infuriate me.

Oh yeah, the whole point of this thread.... Great video Kayeff I really enjoyed it.

[MashThat5A]

Yea, that guy probably mashes DP reeeealy hard

[KayEff]

and that's why i say ragna is bad

to keep people like this from touching ragna

[VR-Raiden]

Wow I didn't realize 5B>5C>3C>HF(1) was as good as it is until looking at the tutorial closer and trying it more. You're actually at advantage even after whiffing a 22C if they emergency tech after the HF(1), I did not expect that. So they get 22C'd for waiting to roll away or delaying their neutral tech, and if they emergency tech you can still apply pressure. I'm gonna use this more.

Question though, how is the 3C delayed JC stuff supposed to deal with an opponent choosing to stay down on the ground? It seems like there's not much you can do. A forward jump cancel causes you to go over them and into the corner yourself, so I'm assuming jump canceling straight up is the safer option. Only things that I can get to hit a grounded opponent from the air are BE and ID, both wouldn't be great if they neutral tech'd through them. If they've stayed down long enough I guess you can land and do the 22A~C thing. I'm just wondering if staying down hurts the mix-up a lot or some ways of dealing with it.

Also, is there any reason to safe jump with j.B and not j.C? I seem to be able to get a safe jump j.C too. Tested vs. Ragna ID© and Hazama houtenjin.

[KayEff]

i haven't messed with it all that much but i'm sure there's an answer to that

well, let's try theory-fighting for the sake of discovering something

on normal jump, you're in the air for 39F. add 4F startup and you have a 43F duration that you're in the jump. assuming the opponent doesn't tech, the game allows 8F of leniency for emergency tech, and then 18F that hinders everything, resulting in 26F of "forced knockdown." if they forward roll, they are invincible from frames 1~3 but can be hit out from frames 3~17. let's use the last frame of the forward roll where you can get hit out as reference.

supposed you jump right when they hit the ground and the 26F of forced knockdown starts. the moment they are able to do something, you're left when 17F of your jump. at this point, you won't be able to use anything to punish the forward roll, but you can still hit him while they're guarding for something.

this is why you don't jump right when they tech, and instead do it earlier than the moment they hit the ground. i'm guessing if you jump 8~15 frames before they land, you can punish them with something. i know in my video that i jump right when they tech/hit the ground but i'm going to say right now that you shouldn't follow me at that point

try experimenting with jumping right after 3C hits and see what results you get

neutral tech is 32F in duration, so if you jump at the time they tech, you have 11F before you land, in which you can be hit out of. even less reason to do the jump right on their tech.

EDIT: as for the reason you use j.B over j.C, i would prefer using it because it has more active frames. therefore it is easier to meaty with j.B than with j.C, even though the damage off of it isn't as good.

[VR-Raiden]

Cool I'll mess around with it more. I'm reminded of a post back from CS1 about something related to this, I'll have to find it.

[-Seo]

A forward jump cancel causes you to go over them and into the corner yourself, so I'm assuming jump canceling straight up is the safer option.

If you do end up going over someone by jumping forward and cornering yourself, you can dash under 2A if they neutral tech late.

[KayEff]

though at the point you're over and in the corner yourself, i don't see why they would neutral tech when they could just roll with little risk involved.

[-Seo]

True, but some people are dumb

[Zeron_X25]

We're going to make a tutorial for Hazama just like this one. Would you guys mind if we steal the format? I want to make it look like the Ragna tutorial so when we get more of these, they can be an entire package.

I hope you don't mind, Kay.

[KayEff]

sure, it's not like the format's copyrighted or anything.

just make sure that your categories are all important aspects of hazama's gameplay

[Zeron_X25]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[KayEff]

so i messed around with the 3C oki and having the CPU forward roll. appears that if you jump right after 3C hits, you can punish their forward roll with 5B.

though if you end up wanting to do airdash j.C j.D you'll have to have good reactions.

[VR-Raiden]

Ok, I also found that if you do a slightly delayed jump cancel (slightly before they hit ground) straight up and come down with j.B, it can work as a safe jump and catches forward roll. So you can do j.B > 5B > 5D(1) etc. If the timing is slightly off j.B can hit behind you so you don't get a corner combo. If they stay down and wait until you land so your j.B misses, they have a chance to roll through you unless you 2B, but if they don't do it right away 5B will catch it. 5B seems to catch a backroll as well but I can't think of anyone in their right mind backrolling here.

So yeah it's going to take some good reaction time if you want to punish anything they could possibly do. But if you don't, none of the options put you in a terribly bad position anyway, from a straight up jump cancel at least. It's still a very safe way of continuing pressure after a combo.

It seems like people usually emergency tech the 3C anyway since they probably expect a HF or 22C they're hoping to get out of.