[CSE] Iron Tager General Discussion

[toanenadiz]

It looks like the JBBS is saying Tager can do 360->3C->AC->whiff 4D->GF if they are magnetized(3K for A version and 4K for B version).

[TagerTime]

Cool it turns out i was exactly right about magnetized 360A/B>3C>AC after all and Sledge really is like dead spike now.

Quite a bit of new stuff here besides the things already known.

[BKDennis]

- 2C, 3C no longer take primer

..the fuck? this removes totally the primers breaking ability of tager..

[mAc Chaos]

back to bottom tier

[LunaKage]

- 2C, 3C no longer take primer

..the fuck? this removes totally the primers breaking ability of tager..

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

A new thread? Cool. CSE Tager looking solid? Why do I feel there is going to be some type of WTF bomb that keep us bottom tier?

[TagerTime]

- 2C, 3C no longer take primer

..the fuck? this removes totally the primers breaking ability of tager..

It appears they are taking primer breaking away from the moves of alot of other characthers also besides tager, but yea I dont understand this why they would do this to tager unless they gave him new primer breaking on other moves instead. i would like primer breaking on 6A, 5D, 2D, back on 6B and the 1st hit of sledge also not just the hammer part to serve as replacements >.> Also i want my instant guard crush back from Terra Break, it should destroy 5 Primers

[OrionXElite]

6A and 5D primer breaking would be too strong. 2D could work just cause its slow as all hell. But 6A definitely would be too good in pressure if it broke primers as 6A>4D is a true blockstring, something like 5B>6A>4D would be free primers every time which isn't how primer breaking is supposed to work. 5D is too safe to really be a primer breaker as it pulls in during recovery and is +2. 6A>5D would be 2 primers that would need a good read to do anything about which is too strong. Carl and Rachel are rare exceptions cause of how their character designs work. Carl literally has NO primer breaking moves on his own so he has to rely on the Doll to do anything. Rachels only Primer breakers are 5CC, 6B and 3C but shes designed around utterly relentless pressure and her Primer breakers for the most part limit her mixup potential so its a trade off on her part.

[OrionXElite]

Double post, sue me:

In corner -

something along the lines of 3C > A sledge > hammer > 5C > ~ or

collider in corner > B sledge > hammer > 5C ~ works

From the loketest thread, this is a very interesting change. Hammer>5C now links in the corner? I'm guessing that means either they SEVERELY reduced the recovery of Hammer or they made Sledge>Hammer knock them up much higher and in turn received much more untech time. This can give us more opportunities for combos that don't involve taking them out of the corner and then hoping the proration is good enough to put them back in. 5A>5B>3C>ASledge>Hammer>5C>6A>4D probably works now. Decent damage and heat to keep them in the corner to try and set something up for bigger damage. Sounds interesting how they're changing his combo abilities.

[Tetra - K]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs

We still have 360A for troll.

>.>

Loose your haida loop just so I laugh -_-

Grrrrrr *eats his pillow*

[A.X.I.S.]

Haida loop doesn't exist anymore.

[TagerTime]

6A and 5D primer breaking would be too strong. 2D could work just cause its slow as all hell. But 6A definitely would be too good in pressure if it broke primers as 6A>4D is a true blockstring, something like 5B>6A>4D would be free primers every time which isn't how primer breaking is supposed to work. 5D is too safe to really be a primer breaker as it pulls in during recovery and is +2. 6A>5D would be 2 primers that would need a good read to do anything about which is too strong.

" i would like primer breaking on 6A, 5D, 2D, back on 6B and the 1st hit of sledge also not just the hammer part to serve as replacements >.> "

i put >.> at the end of that sentence for a reason

[Isorropia]

something like 5B>6A>4D would be free primers every time which isn't how primer breaking is supposed to work.

It seems that Mori thinks that the way primer breaking is supposed to work, is that nobody can be guard-broken ever. Currently, a 5-primer character needs to block -8- primer attacks in order to be guardcrushed. (And this assumes no primers are regenerated after some have been broken.) And even if they are pushed into danger mode, waiting a whopping 6 seconds regenerates half of the barrier gauge, requiring 2 more primer breaking attacks to guard crush them.

And add that to the fact that people are getting their good primer-breaking attacks taken away from them, and are left with hilarious things like tager's j.2C (-10 at least) and sledgehammer (-17 or something).

Yes green bursts halve primers. Even then it's nearly impossible to guardbreak them for the reasons listed above (2 primers left? Ok, 5 primer attacks needed.)

And unless it's a mistranslation, in CSE you lose even less barrier for blocking a primer attack with 1 left than you do now.

So yeah, all I know is that I disagree with the way guardcrush works in BB and felt like ranting about it. >.>

[mAc Chaos]

Wait, what do you mean 8 primer attacks? Because it just regenerates so fast?

[Manta]

Double post, sue me:

In corner -

something along the lines of 3C > A sledge > hammer > 5C > ~ or

collider in corner > B sledge > hammer > 5C ~ works

From the loketest thread, this is a very interesting change. Hammer>5C now links in the corner? I'm guessing that means either they SEVERELY reduced the recovery of Hammer or they made Sledge>Hammer knock them up much higher and in turn received much more untech time. This can give us more opportunities for combos that don't involve taking them out of the corner and then hoping the proration is good enough to put them back in. 5A>5B>3C>ASledge>Hammer>5C>6A>4D probably works now. Decent damage and heat to keep them in the corner to try and set something up for bigger damage. Sounds interesting how they're changing his combo abilities.

Let us not forget that 5C > MTW is totally legit. That seems like a good way to keep them in the corner after hammer.

Also, potential [3C > 236A > 236A]xN corner loop?

[Isorropia]

Wait, what do you mean 8 primer attacks? Because it just regenerates so fast?

Someone has 5 primers. You break 4, leaving them with 1. With 1 primer left, if they use barrier to avoid guardcrush, they lose 3194 units of barrier (with gauge max at 10 000) for each primer attack they block.

Assuming they don't have a full barrier (reasonable to assume), breaking 3 more primers will leave them in danger mode, and then 1 more will break their guard.

This is, of course, assuming they don't regenerate any primers. And like I said, even if you get them to danger mode, they can probably just eat a 2k damage midscreen combo on purpose (char dependent) to let their barrier come back at 50% instead of being guardbroken and pushed to the corner with a combo starter of choice.

[mAc Chaos]

Ah, I see. Well, that's not that bad. The trick is that when they're focusing so much on barrier and not getting guard broke, you have a lot easier time catching them off guard with other stuff. I know when I've been almost guard broken half the time I end up getting hit by something else in the end. It just adds another layer of mixup for you. You don't need to actually guard break them to benefit from it.

[FlyingVe]

They are also changing barrier around so it drains faster.

[Manta]

They are also changing barrier around so it drains faster.

But saving your last primer with barrier consumes less.

[FlyingVe]

Overall it is probably a wash....

[Manta]

Oh guys, apparently 2D has very little knockback, the following may well be legit:

CH 2D, 3C > AC, AC whiff, 6C > j.2C, 2B > 2C > AC, 2D

Not sure about the AC finish though. 2D CH, 3C already works even with 2D's current knockback. And it seems that both drivers have the same proration. Combos from both give damage exactly 1000 damage different.. The combo proration is completely arse however. No comment on 3C CH being techable or not. If it isn't then:

3C CH, 5B > 5C > 6A > AC.... is legit, even at range.

[Tetra - K]

In normal conditions, aka midscreen not close from corner, why do people always do colider whiff? -_-

Please explain me.

Edit : - 5D pull from magnetism lasts longer, we got our 5D back? :o Re magnetism option enhanced :D

[A.X.I.S.]

I doubt we have CS1 5D but we may have something close to it.

CS2 5D is actually good when your opponent is approaching or when your opponent wants to throw something out midscreen.

Tetra what do you mean?

[Tetra - K]

Why do people use colider whiff over j.D which is better.

I know that in some situation like put the ennemy in the corner, colider whiff is better but well why do people rely only on colider whiff when j.D is way better. We should all use j.D combo when we're midscreen. AC whiff is good only for positionning na?

I like cs2 5D when opponent IAD from afar. Just too good to put them back in the corner magnetized XD

[A.X.I.S.]

Because you should do whats easier.

Also in some cases the proration is so bad its not worth the 200 extra damage.