[CSE] Relius Clover Technical Discussion

[Kurushii]

Uri are you going to be able to keep up doing Platinum's and Relius's combo section? It should be situation first then input (like how you did Plat's). As Solex said you forgot D's. :3

I already plan to do some combo videos later. Maybe a multi-volume bnb combo videos as more better ones are found.

[Dusk Thanatos]

This is really demanding of me, but, I think at least one post should be spent explaining how to make combos yourself on the fly -- what the basic pieces are, etc.

I only really feel like I know a character's combos if I understand the formula behind them.

EDIT: Also, godlike post, stick

[Urichinan]

Uri are you going to be able to keep up doing Platinum's and Relius's combo section? It should be situation first then input (like how you did Plat's). As Solex said you forgot D's. :3

I already plan to do some combo videos later. Maybe a multi-volume bnb combo videos as more better ones are found.

Pshhhhhhh, I would have never realized I missed combos from D moves. @_@

Situational combos like CH j.B hit-confirms and such will also be in each post.

It'll look something like:

Combos from B Moves:

Mid-Screen:

5B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

2B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

6B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

j.B:

Air vs. Ground

Air vs. Air

Using Ignis:

5B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

2B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

6B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

j.B:

Air vs. Ground

Air vs. Air

Corner:

5B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

2B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

6B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

j.B:

Air vs. Ground

Air vs. Air

Using Ignis:

5B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

2B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

6B:

Ground vs. Ground

Ground vs. Air

j.B:

Air vs. Ground

Air vs. Air

And I don't think I'm going to do Platinum's again, I'll have to wait and see. I might not even use her anymore, I just need to try her out once I get Extend and see how I like her. Otherwise, I'll be focusing on Litchi and Relius.

[LunarSelenia]

Super Armor stuff

I got to play more games in after that and I realized that 2D had that before I came back here to post about it. Thanks so much for finding all of that other stuff and testing things out. Really useful stuff there~

[Solex]

hey so about that relius throw 214b thing i managed to record it but it looks awful because i trimmed it giving me no time to add any transitions so it just jumps straight to the glitchand also the quality is terribad

here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYWmSlfSAmQ&feature=plcp&context=C3091430UDOEgsToPDskLO-FZJaOfqY3lkGmNajqq0

EDIT: i added annotations to help explain what is happening and added pauses so its easier to understand

[Dusk Thanatos]

Can't read the input display very well.

What's the input, 214B~C?

[Solex]

nah you have to do it that fast just 214b wait a sec and grab

[Urichinan]

Hmm... I think I may be able to explain this, but I might be wrong.

It looks like whenever you preform the throw, Ignis hits them out of a grab state, causing them to recover to a normal position. Whenever they block Ignis' attack after being pulled out of Relius' grab, they get hit by the unblockable throw followup, but if they don't block, the rest of the throw combos after Ignis' hit.

Litchi has something similar using Daisharin, however, the followup to her throw is a physical hit, not another followup throw like Relius', so it's blockable.

Like I said, I could be wrong about this, but I think that's what's happening.

[Solex]

o...that might be it but i don't think it is. i think its actually a lot weaker than that...but then again i can't explain it more than the attacks hit at the same time lol so your probably right

[St1ckBuG]

unrelated but has anyone found out that relius has a glitch where he grabs at the same moment 214b attacks? the grab will be green and the opponent could tech it, but even if they do they take 1200, unless they were blocking. still i think this could be pretty useful, o btw if they try to do something they get ch and cant tech the grab its pretty funny

umm not exactly but i will test it more when im home and ill try to record it since my brother recently got a hd pvr but neither of us really know how to work it yet lol

something i can say though is that you have to do the grab a tiny bit before the 214b attack connects since grabs have like a 7 frame startup

Back before EX was patched you could kara-summons into throws. It's actually in that JP Relius guide video that was posted a while ago. If that's what you're talking about it was patched out and no longer works.

If you're talking about doing 214B then buffering throw, then yes, you green throw right before 214B becomes active. It's definitely a good mixup tool... if you're confident that the player won't push a button. Also remember that teching throws always unsummons Ignis no mater who threw first.

Since we're on a combo thread topic, a Relius combo thread should be categorized depending on:

1). Ignis summon/unsummoned

2). Position on the screen

3). Starter

4). How much IC you want to use/have

If you guys are going to start making a combo thread please keep it simple. Please please please please please keep it simple. Don't list 40 combos with 3 variations of each. The first ever Makoto thread from CS1 did this and it was terrible. Combo theory would be great.

BTW: All of Ignus D normals and specials/summons guard point projectiles.

Also, you can combo 214A > 6D only on crouching CH.

Edit: I just watched your video. I didn't refresh the page until now. It only works off of counter-throw? That's weird.

Double Edit: I'm not too sure about that combo thread layout...

[skd]

when certain attacks hit on the same frame as throws, the game freaks out haha. Maybe you can avoid it by late teching? If it runs out of active frames ;o

[Toasty]

If anyone is having trouble with the IAD combos connecting properly, I think I may have found a substitute that does roughly the same damage for the same cost:

(midscreen) 5B -> 2B -> 3C -> 6D -> falling jC -> 4D -> sjB -> JC -> jB -> jC -> 236C -> 214B ~3k

If you are close enough, you can use 5C(2) instead of 2B to make the damage about 3.3k. The trick to this combo is to do the 6D at the same time you jump cancel the 3C, and then to do the falling jC as low to the ground as possible to ensure that the 4D will combo.

Double Edit: I'm not too sure about that combo thread layout...

Do you mean the new thread or the combos in this one? This thread isn't going to be the combo thread anymore, but just served as one before the game came out just so we had a listing of them. The new one seems fine to me, but any input would still be appreciated.

[Dusk Thanatos]

If you guys are going to start making a combo thread please keep it simple. Please please please please please keep it simple. Don't list 40 combos with 3 variations of each. The first ever Makoto thread from CS1 did this and it was terrible. Combo theory would be great.

Amen amen amen PLEASE.

I'll even do the goddamn combo theory writeup if need be, I just don't want to see a massive, intimidating list of combos that turns away everyone who comes near the forums in the first post.

[Critical Edge]

If I may make a suggestion:

If combos are listed, there should be some kind of explanation as to why the combo should be used, difficulty level, strategies, things to know, etc.

Things like explaining different ways to approach okizeme midscreen and in the corner after those specific combos, along with tips and tricks to make them easier would also be really good for beginning players in my opinion. It'll cut down on the really long list of combos and put more focus on the target stuff.

[Kurushii]

Toasty and I had a discussion about the combo thread. I messaged Uri on the approach we would like it to be done. We are listening to everyone's opinion and we share the same feelings. Dusk you are welcome to take a shot at writing up a combo theory if you are eager to. Send it to Toasty or myself so we can review before posting it up.

[St1ckBuG]

Oh wow, I think Ignis 2D during 236A also has armor? Can someone else confirm? I'm at work... doing uh, work?

Edit: Confirmed. I just saw it done again, and tested it myself.

[unsanctifier]

Do you think 236A effects Ignis attacks as a whole?

[St1ckBuG]

Do you think 236A effects Ignis attacks as a whole?

Nope. Not from what I've seen/done. 2D seems to be the only exception.

[Dusk Thanatos]

So, this is a quick preliminary look at how I'd break down corner combos. Right now, I think it can still be made more accessible, but I want to get some feedback on whether or not my explanations make sense.

Relius's corner combos can be divided into three parts, which all end with a target move with high hitstun.

-One part (usually the first) will end with ground Id (236C) into a followup (214A), or just ground Id by itself.

-Another part (normally second) will end with aerial Id (j.236c) into a followup, or TK Id (j.2369C) by itself.

-A third part (normally last) will end with 4D, or 4D> (wait) 3C if placed at the end of the combo.

These three sections get connected by OTGs and catching falling opponents. The second is less common than the first, so we'll examine the first.

Take this basic Relius corner combo.

5B>5C(2)>236C>214A>5C(2)>6B>sj j.BC>j.236C>j.214A>falling j.C>2C>4D>3C

This looks complicated as hell, but it's easy to break down into the three parts I described.

[5B>5C(2)>236C>214A] is the first part. It's just normals into 236C>214A.

[5C(2)>6B>sj j.BC>j.236C>j.214A] is the next part. Since the 214A followup to 236C grounds the opponent, you run up and OTG them with 5C(2) to continue the combo, do 6B for a bit of extra damage and a higher launch, and do a quick one-off aircombo into j.236C>j.214A. (There's only one jump in this aircombo so that Relius is at the right height to catch the opponent with falling j.C to start the next part.)

This leads into the third part, [falling j.C>2C>4D>3C]. This part looks a bit odd at first, but it behaves the same way; you're performing an OTG (falling j.C), then putting in another normal for more damage and stun, then getting to your target move, which is 4D (and then 3C, for knockdown).

I also think j.C might be a falling catch rather than an OTG, but >_>

[Critical Edge]

I can consider it an OTG.

With okizeme after 3C ender, you do a vertical jump and D to put Ignis back. That gives you enough air time to throw out a j.C on your opponent. When you do this, you can:

- Catch forward/backward(ohgodwhywouldyoudothat) rolls.

- OTG those who don't tech.

- Land and do pressure if they tech immediately.

Since you land on the ground pretty much immediately after the j.C finishes, you can put up your guard to guard against any DPs or any other wakeup stuff. If there isn't any wakeup stuff then you can do pressure and mixups to your heart's content.

[Kurushii]

Nice write-up Dust. Looks good for a corner explanation.

[Kurushii]

Astral:

3C>214214D

6B>214214D

BC>214214D

4BC>214214D

CH 6A>214214D

CH 5B>214214D

CH 2B>214214D

CH 5C>214214D

CH 2C>214214D

CH 6C>214214D

[skd]

can you set up that 214b + throw thing on oki lol? because on oki you can get the 214B and throw to connect on the same frame as long as the active frames for both are in play, correct? thats really strong oki if its true <_<

[Kurushii]

Ground Revolver Action Table

[table=width: 500, class: grid]

[/td]

5A

5B

5C

2A

2B

2C

6A

6B

6C

3C

Throw

Special/Super

Jump

5A

Yes+

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

On Hit

On Hit

5B

-

-

Yes

-

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

-

On Hit

-

5C

-

-

-

-

-

Yes

-

Yes

Yes

Yes

-

On Hit

On First Hit

2A

Yes

Yes

Yes

-

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

-

Yes

Yes

On Hit

-

2B

-

1x Per String

Yes

-

-

Yes

Yes

-

Yes

Yes

-

On Hit

-

2C

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

Yes

Yes

-

On Hit

-

6A

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

On Hit

-

6B

-

-

Yes

-

-

-

-

-

Yes

-

-

On Hit

On Hit

6C

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

On Hit

-

3C

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

On Hit

On Hit

[/table]

Air Revolver Action Table

[table=width: 500, class: grid]

[td]jA

jB

jC

Throw

Special/Super

Jump

jA

-

On Hit

On Hit

-

On Hit

-

jB

-

-

On Hit

-

On Hit

-

jC

-

-

-

-

On Hit

-

[/table]

• + Available even on whiff
  

[Critical Edge]

Astral:

3C>214214D

6B>214214D

BC>214214D

4BC>214214D

CH 6A>214214D

CH 5B>214214D

CH 2B>214214D

CH 5C>214214D

CH 2C>214214D

CH 6C>214214D

Here's a corner one I use a lot:

[Corner] 5B > 5C(2) > #IdHaas > 6C > 214214D