DLM UNDEAD Report post Posted October 10, 2011 That carl had negative penalty lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Osuna Report post Posted October 10, 2011 AC doing 2.4K clean, getting 4K of that sounds easy enough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGRnPrO9Fc#t=91sCarl was in negative penalty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoular Report post Posted October 10, 2011 Whoops, its late here, the vid was dark, hard to see Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manta Report post Posted October 10, 2011 How long is the 3C untechable time? Anyone seen people airteching out of it? Was just pondering a 3C > (AC), AC Tech trap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshara Report post Posted October 10, 2011 I can't lie. Seeing the new Tager combo's got me pretty hype. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TagerTime Report post Posted October 10, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=muMOOBjl7mw#t=188s They had to have made VT>720 much easier to do because that definatley looks like it has to be after the current 11 frame startup window. That's not possible with current CS2 VT>720. I can do VT>720 very easily so I tried to replicate that repeatedly in training mode and after Gadget VT>720 is so fast 720 comes out before voltic charge can even guard point ID at all. Therefore ID always hits you out of the 720. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OrionXElite Report post Posted October 10, 2011 Albeit an irrelevant point, you can actually get ID to snag the Guard Point on Voltic Charge. The Guard Point starts on frame 6 and the cancel to 720 needs to be done by frame 11. So you have to time the Voltic Charge to start within 1-5 Frames of the ID in order to get the Guard Point to work AND Cancel to 720. If you're doing off of GF oki, you're probably doing the Voltic Charge way too soon for the ID to ever try to meet the Guard point. But in theory, it is possible to VTC>720 through DPs even in CS2 if the conditions are right. But in regards to the actual point of that, there are 2 things they could have done with Voltic Charge to allow this. 1- They increased the window for you to cancel to 720 outright so instead of 1-11, its probably 1-15 now. I'm hoping that they didn't just make it cancel into 720 at any time cause that would just be a stupid change. 2- They gave it the same properties as its Hammer Cancel now but also able to do it with 720 meaning that if the Guard Point eats a hit, you gain the option to cancel immediately into 720. I also hope this is a real change cause that would be just as stupid:v: If all the did was make the window for it from something like 1-11 to 1-15, then whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manta Report post Posted October 10, 2011 Volic charge into 720 and hammer? Anyone remember that stance EX Potemkin had in GGAC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A.X.I.S. Report post Posted October 10, 2011 I actually missed that detail! Nice observation Kiesha! If they did actually do that change then it benefits us either way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TagerTime Report post Posted October 10, 2011 Albeit an irrelevant point, you can actually get ID to snag the Guard Point on Voltic Charge. The Guard Point starts on frame 6 and the cancel to 720 needs to be done by frame 11. So you have to time the Voltic Charge to start within 1-5 Frames of the ID in order to get the Guard Point to work AND Cancel to 720. If you're doing off of GF oki, you're probably doing the Voltic Charge way too soon for the ID to ever try to meet the Guard point. But in theory, it is possible to VTC>720 through DPs even in CS2 if the conditions are right. ok i went back to training mode to try that. i did VTC>720 as late as late as i could after Gadget. ID hit the guardpoint while ragna was still on the ground, then 720 comes out just as ID lifts off the ground and ID still hits you right out of 720. Plus i only got it to hit the guardpoint 2 times out of like 30. Anyways this still is absolutely not what happend in the CSX video. I hope they did change it to make it cancel into 720 at anytime or made it into a VTC 720 counter attack. anyway im just really glad they made it alot easier to do regardless. I actually missed that detail! Nice observation Kiesha! If they did actually do that change then it benefits us either way. Who is Kiesha? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyI-nomitsu Report post Posted October 10, 2011 Does anyone know Tager has any REAL resets like this? P.s. I'm being serious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_1oQW_wdjc&feature=related Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commanderoftroy Report post Posted October 10, 2011 I'm pretty sure most characters don't have real resets like that. Thus far I'm enjoying tager's new combos but still not sure how much he has improved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyI-nomitsu Report post Posted October 10, 2011 I'm pretty sure most characters don't have real resets like that. Thus far I'm enjoying tager's new combos but still not sure how much he has improved. I'm talking about corner resets dealing with mag and they end with a tasty 360 and 720. and don't worry Troy. With how you was bodying everyone with Tager at CH3. You'll be fine. And if you decide to get into MK. I highly suggest Jax. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OrionXElite Report post Posted October 11, 2011 I hope they did change it to make it cancel into 720 at anytime or made it into a VTC 720 counter attack. anyway im just really glad they made it alot easier to do regardless. Either of those changes would just be stupid by design, it would just turn into start the charge and churn butter, did anything happen near you? CCCCCCCCC and hope the 720 lands. Yeah there are ways around it, but it would just turn into another gimmick that sucks like most of his of current stuff. The original intent of the 720 cancel was to create stronger tick grab setups off of 5A/2A pressure(And now 5B). Not to mention that there is no point for it to have a larger cancel window. You can only use it off of 5A and 2A and 5B which means that these moves are the quickest and hardest to do effective 720 ticks off of. This is a tool added to give Tager another option in pressure for his faster moves. Note that tick grabs are FAST, so giving Tager a larger window for the cancel would only cripple its effectiveness. Its a lot harder to react to 5A>VTCxx720 than 2B tick to 720. Thats ALL its there for, a minor addition to create better grappler mixup. Changing that to yet another gimmick that Tager sucks at using is just bad. I'm fine with the window for the cancel being something like 1-15 Frames, but anything more than that is completely unnecessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grandjackal Report post Posted October 11, 2011 So I was watching some new EX vids, and I saw this very bizarre Tager combo vs a Jin player. http://youtu.be/3I2uV0u7svI?t=10m12s It starts when you see him land a Volt Tackle. Combo seems to be (and sorry for not using the numbers, I am still new to the community of arcade fighters, not quite familiar with the numbers corelating to stick positions) seems to be this. Down D-Forward A-Down C-Collider-Back D Whiff-Sweep C-Whiffed Collider(drags enemy from in front of tager to behind him over his head)-People's Elbow-B-Back D 9 hits, 3765 damage. No bluebeating. Keeps opponent in the corner. Thoughts on what looks like the wonkiest combo ever? Other thing I noticed in that bit of footage was that while doing Down D, Jin's Down D whiffs despite the ice blade Tager tackling right through it. Did Down D get some technical properties changed to it, did Jin's Down D get a change like a thinner hitbox, or am I seeing a problem that isn't actually there? Also, not sure I've seen in this topic people's thoughts on the new chargeable B Sledge. IMO it looks like another gimmick, but I'm not the Tager player here. What you guys thinking of it? (Hate Ragna needing to use forward B for his new midscreen combos, that clunky piece of crap...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isorropia Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Basically what happened was tager hit Jin before 2D went active, and that caused it to disappear. Also that combo is amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OrionXElite Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah this combo was pretty silly to watch but the irony is that this was actually a really good combo the Tager player did because the way he did it allowed him to easily trade places and put the opponent in the corner without having to use another Collider. The back-D(4D) whiff allowed the down forward-C(3C) to be spaced in a way that the Collider Whiff would pull Jin over his head so the People's Elbow(Jump 2C) would hit behind Tager allowing him to hit the Standing B(5B) to Back-D(4D) and get a better oki situation. As for the Down-D(2D) beating Jin's Ice Sword, Tager managed to hit Jin just before the Sword had become active to hit anything so it broke the ice upon Jin getting hit. Chargeable BSledge may have some random uses in certain matchups but other than that it isn't anything special. If you need help doing combo notation with the numbers and stuff, Read This. Its a detailed and really helpful guide for learning how to read the combo notation we use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grandjackal Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Well, glad I could contribute the knowledge of that combo to y'all if apparently a player like Orion thinks it's a pretty good combo. Suppose since I am the one who posted it, it's my responsibility to clear up the notations, so that the combo is easier to read, and you guys can mentally prepare for it when EX comes out on console and outside Japan. 2D-6A-2C-Colider-4D Whiff-3C-Colider Whiff-j.2C-5B-4D: 3765 Damage, 4D and some 2D Magnetism stacked. Small combo looking at it on paper, but the timing on the j.2C when you do the colider pull has to be the annoying part of it all. As for B Sledge charge, my only thoughts on it really (and I'm probably just noobdreaming theory fighting here) is that with ASledge-BSledge and Charge BSledge sounds similar to Potemkin's Hammerblow and how he had that fake one where he just sort of headbangs, though I hardly need to point out the differences between the two that make's Tager's "version" of it worse. That's just a noob spouting out about a character he doesn't know (but is at least interested in), but if it dosn't sound silly well...there you go. Ahh ok, that's what happened with Jin's blade there. Simple enough I suppose. Thanks for the link, Orion. Much obliged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetra - K Report post Posted October 11, 2011 2D has been modified no? Seems safer. I've heard something like this in the discussion topic some week ago but it's not in the first page's list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grandjackal Report post Posted October 11, 2011 I've heard something like this in the discussion topic some week ago but it's not in the first page's list. Well, at least we got video proof of it now, so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Osuna Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Well, glad I could contribute the knowledge of that combo to y'all if apparently a player like Orion thinks it's a pretty good combo. Suppose since I am the one who posted it, it's my responsibility to clear up the notations, so that the combo is easier to read, and you guys can mentally prepare for it when EX comes out on console and outside Japan. 2D-6A-2C-Colider-3DWhiff-3C-Colider Whiff-j.2C-5B-4D: 3765 Damage, 4D and some 2D Magnetism stacked. Small combo looking at it on paper, but the timing on the j.2C when you do the colider pull has to be the annoying part of it all. As for B Sledge charge, my only thoughts on it really (and I'm probably just noobdreaming theory fighting here) is that with ASledge-BSledge and Charge BSledge sounds similar to Potemkin's Hammerblow and how he had that fake one where he just sort of headbangs, though I hardly need to point out the differences between the two that make's Tager's "version" of it worse. That's just a noob spouting out about a character he doesn't know (but is at least interested in), but if it dosn't sound silly well...there you go. Ahh ok, that's what happened with Jin's blade there. Simple enough I suppose. Thanks for the link, Orion. Much obliged.No one gonna mention that 3D typo? I hardly think that combo is optimal with a starter like 2D, but it kindly illustrates some new combo paths. I look forward to improvement. I also see no similarity between sledge and hammerfall. They don't do any of the same things, might as well compare it to 2D or J.C since the only thing they have in common is they move forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manta Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Incidentally. 2D CH, 3C has always been possible since CS. Being able to follow it up with 623C fling as of EX might lead to more optimum combos like: 2D CH, (3C, (623C), J.2C)x2 , 2B > 2C > 623C, Egadget Pretty sure that loops works at least once from a good starter like 2D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NumeroGaijin Report post Posted October 11, 2011 The real thing would shoul dbe asking about is why even on IB after an A sledge no one counters Tager. Not even Ragna has done that yet. Does this mean that A-Sledge is safe or safer. That is what I am wondering. 2D not knocking back on block is a good change because it allows us to actually use 2B finally instead of always using 5B when we get in that close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A.X.I.S. Report post Posted October 11, 2011 A sledge looks like it has less recovery which means a cheap and easy way to try and repeat pressure. Stuff>A sledge has a gap that can be DP/reversal'd so it's not smart to rely on it. Also iirc seeing in a earlier vid that after a blocked A sledge Tager got a CH with a normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grandjackal Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Sorry bout the typo, fixed it up. And yeah, I could imagine any other starter to that combo would be better, but they'd have to be magnetized for that combo to work in the first place. Food for thought. Also, sorry about the horrid Hammerfall comparison. Teaches me to speak about characters I don't know better about. http://youtu.be/05ARkdQZBAE?t=10m42s From here, I think one thing to note is the following. A-B-3C-ASledge combo, untechable till you touch the ground form what it looks like, 999 damage. Looks useless, but it seems like it could be followed up with...Something. Seems strange it would end with putting the opponent in that state before he techs. Blockstring: 2B-2C-3C-ASledge-I dunno, because Ragna gets hit with it (it's like 10 seconds after the link I sent). ASledge lead to this. Asledge-A-B-3C-Spark-Colider-j.2C-B-4D 2361 damage, no bluebeating on either combo. Not sure if any of this is old news, but I just wanna see if any patterns can be seen. But it says something when you can apparently actually link ASledge into something without it bluebeating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
