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pktazn

[CSE] Tsubaki Yayoi Video Compilation 3.0 (Updated 4/7/13)

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The only good thing about this match was the moment in the first round where, I think, Hakumen did a Kishuu and went UNDER Tsubaki's CA and I went "Wait, what the?!" and the announcer went "NANDA?!" Grats us on CA hitbox nerf, unless Hakumen has gotten more invulnerability on Kishuu.

Kishuu has head and body invulnerability along with the low profile in Extend. It's one of the major changes that are causing him to look like the strongest character in the new game. The hitbox on the CA is identical, and the invulnerability has the same window of duration.

Dora/Akira/Buppa/Kaqn

Who's Buppa?

And the only Ragna player I know is that Sakamoto Ryouma guy, or however you spell his name.

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Legit questions yo~

Watching some of the vids, I don't know if this has been discussed before but:

A.) So now that we have a few more Tsubaki vids show up, what seems to be our options for gaining charge in our neutral game? Considering we can't tap 5D anymore and 5D now only goes up to 1.5. I just wanted to see everyone else's opinions, I rely on the 5D tap in CS2 a lot and lots of 2-3 charge combos. Which leads me into my next question.

B.) CS2 Average charge usage was like 1-2 midscreen and no more than 3 in the corner. I hardly see Tsu's charging up more than 3 stock if they're lucky. I've been mostly taking note that most Tsubaki that get 1 charge are using it in blockstrings + combos. Is CSX looking like 1 charge combos midscreen and 2 maybe 3 for average use? But this question may be on the fact that imo in CSX, finding a safe time to charge and get actual stock seems a lot harder.

Of course, I could be wrong, and at times I have a horrible memory so please correct me if I am, but this is just observation on my part.

CS 1 Tsubaki had an even harder time getting charges than she does in extend so I would imagine you'd have to use the charges more wisely most likely meaning you'll have to maximize combo damage and corner carry and etc to your best abilities using charges like even more valuable resources.

It's going to encourage smart play and that in itself will be fun.

As for getting charges in neutral, we're going to need to use the hj.D > backdash/forward dash more often as j.D is faster than ever always keeping an eye on where our opponent is and their reach to not get too greedy. Then there's the charge canceling where we can get some much needed charges while we're doing our block strings.

We should also be able to get a full one charge or more using the j.CC > j.236A > j.214C > j.D ender which will allow us to quickly air dash forward to keep up the pressure or air dash back if we took more time charging and no longer have the advantage as they're teching.

I think most of our combo options are going to revolve around 1-2 charge use(one mostly) and 3 at max- there's also air mugen which we'll be able to use with 1-2 charges that should provide us with a means to extend our combo to a much greater length which I'm sure we'll discover as we delve into her optimal combo flow.

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Legit questions yo~

Watching some of the vids, I don't know if this has been discussed before but:

A.) So now that we have a few more Tsubaki vids show up, what seems to be our options for gaining charge in our neutral game? Considering we can't tap 5D anymore and 5D now only goes up to 1.5. I just wanted to see everyone else's opinions, I rely on the 5D tap in CS2 a lot and lots of 2-3 charge combos. Which leads me into my next question.

B.) CS2 Average charge usage was like 1-2 midscreen and no more than 3 in the corner. I hardly see Tsu's charging up more than 3 stock if they're lucky. I've been mostly taking note that most Tsubaki that get 1 charge are using it in blockstrings + combos. Is CSX looking like 1 charge combos midscreen and 2 maybe 3 for average use? But this question may be on the fact that imo in CSX, finding a safe time to charge and get actual stock seems a lot harder.

Of course, I could be wrong, and at times I have a horrible memory so please correct me if I am, but this is just observation on my part.

Like Batousai said, the fastest way so far during neutral is j.D. But imo I also don't think they've quite found the most optimal ways to charge or found a way to take advantage of charge cancelling which I honestly believe got a buff but it's hard to tell since the only Tsubaki I've seen really do charge cancelling is Kuresu. I think that most of the Tsubakis that we've seen are still playing in a CS2-esque way so hopefully we'll start seeing new things later on.

And the only Ragna player I know is that Sakamoto Ryouma guy, or however you spell his name.

He's way too gdlk lol.

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3C is "safer" in that if you space it PERFECTLY, you're 'only' at -5. I actually glanced at this back when I was doing the initial CS2 frame data comparison, and basically wrote it off as still not really feasable. Though I guess at decent range it's safe if people wait to see if you do the followup.

Thanks for the clarification! That's good to know!

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I saw Uido getting hit by litchi's 5A after she IB'ed 214D, going by that, it's safe to assume the move is at least -10 on block (-7 on IB, giving the litchi barely enough time to hit with 5A)

Or would it be -9/-6? not too sure if -6 would allow a move with active frames of 6 to actually hit or not.

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I saw Uido getting hit by litchi's 5A after she IB'ed 214D, going by that, it's safe to assume the move is at least -10 on block (-7 on IB, giving the litchi barely enough time to hit with 5A)

Or would it be -9/-6? not too sure if -6 would allow a move with active frames of 6 to actually hit or not.

This is backwards. IBing makes things MORE negative, not less. Assuming Litchi's 5A hasn't gotten any FASTER (seems unlikely) then all this tells us is that 214D is now -4 or worse (-7 or worse on IB) because Litchi's 5A is 6 frames, so you need to be not blocking on that 6th frame. (I'm PRETTY sure that if you are -6 and someone attacks with a 6 frame move, you can start blocking right as their attack hits and not get hit. Obviously for throws and stuff it's different though.)

I'm a little confused still about the discussion surrounding Charge Cancelling as a source of charge. In the Tsubaki vs Hakumen vid above, Tsubaki does a charge cancel and gets the usual garbage amount of charge for it - not even a quarter of a gauge. Charge canceling may have been improved, but if it has, it looks like it's from a frame advantage perspective, not a charge-gained perspective. And they can't really improve it MUCH on the frame advantage side, or we'll have free license to turn 5C/5CC into +2 whenever we want, which would be sortof crazy.

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Kuresu used it and got a pretty good amount of charge I think. Again it's an option I haven't seen used often so I'm interested in seeing what can be done with it because running away and trying to charge isn't doing any better.

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This is backwards. IBing makes things MORE negative, not less.

I just re-read my post and feel ashamed by posting that, dunno what the hell I was thinking there. Brain fart maybe :psyduck:

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Kuresu used it and got a pretty good amount of charge I think. Again it's an option I haven't seen used often so I'm interested in seeing what can be done with it because running away and trying to charge isn't doing any better.

Could you point out where you see someone getting decent charge (like, more than 1/4th of a stock) from a charge cancel? I just reviewed two Kuresu videos and I'm not seeing it.

And yeah. Not to be pessimistic or anything, but it doesn't look like they're giving us decent charging options. The only times I see anyone getting more than a small amount are on a 2D after a knockdown.

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I remember it mostly in his match against Satsuno. It's not CS2 speed of getting charges but he keeps up pressure while still building up his charge meter. I kinda wish I could see it more to make a more accurate assessment of it but it's one of the things I want to try out and see how far I can go with when Extend is released here.

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Did you guys notice in the Kuno video, how fast 6BB came out? Not so much the first hit but the second hit on whiff.

I'm not sure if it'll be useful for anything in particular but it's definitely immediately noticeable.

Also, it looks like off a naked 214D hit, you can do 214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B still for 2895 damage.

As we've established already though, most of the videos that have been surfacing have been of not so high calibur play.

I wish it was December already so I could really see what she's capable of now instead of counting on these videos to trickle in but it is what it is.

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I really wish I could just stalk the top 10 Tsubakis for PSR and get footage of them playing :(

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He scared me too lol. If he played a bit more carefully I feel he could have taken a round and maybe even the match. Those throw counters from 5B...

Good to see some more combos though like the B DP whiff midscreen.

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I'm just glad the IAD combo works from a 2C AA.

The player was off to a good start....

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10/22

Kishida (Tsubaki) vs Hentai (Makoto)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOOIusQnqU8

Kishida (Tsubaki) vs Roten (Ragna)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOOIusQnqU8#t=9m12

Kishida (Tsubaki) vs Hentai (Makoto)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtC4WB4nA0U#t=9m02

Lol at j.214B going past ID during the Ragna match? I dunno though, didn't look like it whiffed but ID definitely didn't hit her through her j.214B.

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Man this guy really liked using 3C, especially that crossover setup.

Such a risky maneuver especially when he didn't have heat to RC.

I have a good idea on what combo he was going for after the 3C FC, 6CC but it looks like he waited too long to go into 214D and missed it both times.

Oh and that j.214B going through ID doesn't make any sense at all unless they added some kind of invinc frames to it or perhaps something happened with the hit detection and something glitched out.

All in all, he didn't go for any DP whiff into jc combo ender which I think will be the new standard in most situations tried too many ground charges. Also, I noticed he opted for 2D charge for his charge cancels for 5D which still did almost get him a full bar for 2 charge cancel which isn't bad at all but one would imagine that 5D would be better because of 2D's awful charge up time during the first few frames but we'll see.

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I'm surprised he didn't do 6CC - 236D the second time...

I'm more concerned about Ragna getting a 2B hit during Tsubaki's 236D - 214D which is tight even on IB. Tsubaki getting hit like that, most likely means they may have reduced the frame advantage of 236D.

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I would think he went for 2D because it recovers faster even though 5D would get more charges. I'm thinking we'll have to decide which one we want to use depending on whether we want a bit more pressure or more charges though I'm thinking it'd beneficial to alternate between the two depending on the situation. I thought that sometimes when he used 3C it was a flubbed 22C but that's just me guessing.

And yea I kept replaying the j.214B and ID but due to Tsubaki's need to be fancy, her sparkles are covering up anything that could indicate what happened. I'm just gonna call it a homo-genius moment because when I saw it I had to do a double-take.

All in all, from these matches it really shows that we have to be smarter and more careful about when we use our moves than we were before.

EDIT: When it's invincible, little circular waves come out right? Cuz I really am interested in what happened between j.214B and ID and well...

dYuAZ.png

wMdTb.png

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I'm surprised he didn't do 6CC - 236D the second time...

I'm more concerned about Ragna getting a 2B hit during Tsubaki's 236D - 214D which is tight even on IB. Tsubaki getting hit like that, most likely means they may have reduced the frame advantage of 236D.

I felt a slight delay in the input between the 236D > 214D.

I could be wrong but it was noticeable when I saw it the first time by a little.

I would think he went for 2D because it recovers faster even though 5D would get more charges. I'm thinking we'll have to decide which one we want to use depending on whether we want a bit more pressure or more charges though I'm thinking it'd beneficial to alternate between the two depending on the situation. I thought that sometimes when he used 3C it was a flubbed 22C but that's just me guessing.

And yea I kept replaying the j.214B and ID but due to Tsubaki's need to be fancy, her sparkles are covering up anything that could indicate what happened. I'm just gonna call it a homo-genius moment because when I saw it I had to do a double-take.

All in all, from these matches it really shows that we have to be smarter and more careful about when we use our moves than we were before.

That might be about 2D/5D. In CS 2 the recovery time was more or less the same from what I can remember(unlike CS 1). I'd really like that frame data but we won't be getting that for a while I bet >_<.

I agree with having to play smarter especially since we have to work harder to our charges which is very similar to what we had to do more in CS 1 but I feel like these players are barely scratching the surface of things like optimal combos, situational option selects and etc which is understandable since the game hasn't been around for very long.

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Definitely about finding optimal combos and the like. It'd be helpful if there were more videos... Or if we had the game ourselves :arg:

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