My Ky Trade Secrets thread

[xlolxlolx]

what are you having trouble with? last time i checked this was closer to even or slightly in ky's favor

[Sytha]

KY/JU is indeed pretty bad. But I'm not sure it's 3-7. Feels pretty terrible if Justice gets her bombs going tho.

 

 

If your having trouble with the bombs.

You can TK Hard Slash Stun Edge and it will go inbetween all justice 22whatevers unless she FRCs the P one and goes directly into the K one. Or if it is already in travel for too long But if she tries to get the multibomb sets out then TK Stunedges are pretty strong tool.

 

Another option is trying to trade 1-2 hits of a bomb with a f. Slash which will negate all other bombs.(Including the remaining hits on the bomb you traded with)

 

Other than that the only methods Ky has with dealing with it is dash breaking which isn't quite optimal but it can set you up for the f.S threat which will end the bomb spam. assuming she doesn't FRC it.

 

Her normals tend to be pretty good against Ky ground to ground is the other issue. 5P, 5K, f.S, 5H, 2H, 6H are all buff as hell normals.

 

If you knock her down tho she is pretty open to whatever mix you want to try on her.

[ehuangsan]

It feels like a 3-7 to me only because it feels like I have to win off the one or two knockdowns I get per round, otherwise I automatically lose.

 

Yeah, TK HS SE only sorta works, until Justice decides to just block or do the high bomb to negate the SE. If Ky does it and airdashes, and Justice blocks, 2HS catches every possible move Ky can do. She can also always do her FB or super if Ky tries to TK HS SE too; it's free and hands Justice the initiative.

 

Ky's other options are to IB the air bombs and try to double jump through with an air S SE FRC, run up and dash brake/trade 5S with a bomb so the bomb only does one hit, or sometimes, sacred edge if justice gets too predictable to hit the bomb startup. All of those answers are mediocre. Basically you forfeit 40-70% of your life before you get a turn on average.

 

Ky cannot even really effectively anti air justice other than air throw and HS VT, as jump HS is very very buff. So if Justice wants to attack Ky, it is awfully difficult to stop her from doing so, especially since her ground normals are better than Ky's ground normals, even at Ky's effective range.

 

Also, Ky has literally no answer to Michael's sword, other than trying to force it to whiff into FRC HS SE combo. It's a get out of jail free card on defense against Ky, unless Ky backdashes or something during offense. At the start of the round, Justice can open auto Michael's sword or TK backwards Michael's sword, unless Ky opens the round with HS VT, but who does that.

 

I watched a match video with Ain where the commentator said that it is 非常につらい for Ky, so I'm guessing JP thinks it's 3.5-6.5 or 3-7 as well.

[xlolxlolx]

if you don't let her play her bullet hell game she can't do too much, staying right outside of throw range with pokes shuts down almost all of her options 

 

definitely not good for ky at long to mid range since her hitboxes are fucking gigantic

 

i dont know how to deal with tk s michael sword without fishing with 2hs or 5hs but you can forward jump fd and catch ground s michael sword if it whiffs when your jump is right over the sword

[BladeOfJustice7]

With regards to the Ky vs Justice matchup, Ill post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0KsyAUTWo0#t=1367

 

 

Obviously Machabo is the best Ky player, so watching this video must be taken with a grain of salt. But I can't see why Ky can't keep Justice locked down, with my personal experience against the character and watching others play against her. You clearly cannot play full screen, and instead must keep yourself just outside of the range of Michael Blade and pressure her to keep her from doing anything, be ready to bait Michael Blade, both super an ordinary version. tk hs stun edge along with it's FRC point really gives Ky an opening to get in close. I found using j.SE frc points and either running or air dashing proved to be fairly effective at closing the distance with her and getting rid of her grenades all at once.

 

 

Any chance on a write up against Order Sol?

[Delrian]

TBH I'm not sure that Justice player knew what he was doing... I think player skill was the greater determinant there than the matchup.

[Coffeeling]

As a GG noob this thread has been amazing <3_<3

[VicViper]

yeah actually the Justice player in that vid seemed pretty incompetent

 

the footage of Ain Ky vs TON Justice here at 2:50 seems to reflect what you guys are saying about this matchup.

 

Fuck it really looks a lot worse than what I've been playing against. The players I've played didn't have anywhere near as good control of the mines. Even when I played against Eshi at CW6 here, despite all of the mistakes I made (jesus fuck I played so horribly and choked a lot) it was actually really easy for me to get in because the mine formations were nowhere near as optimal.

 

If you look at TON vs Ain, you'll notice that he does a much better job of keeping Ky out because of throwing out the P K S mines in that order. If you just throw out P S like Eshi did a lot, you'll see that there's a pretty gaping hole in that formation if you don't cover it up with other formations like TON does. It's so easy to just jump right in the P S hole, and then I'm in at a range where if you try to throw out another mine, I can just stuff her out of it like with Stun Dipper for example

[Coffeeling]

Also finally watched MSY vs. Faith, and I'm just o_o. Such a bad matchup made to look so even, such fluency with a pocket Eddie, and both just playing at an absolute breakneck pace. But why do we celebrate only Faith's good decisions with !? marks :'(

 

Put in a vote for: Vid study - Machabo(Ky) vs. Ogawa (Eddie)

[ehuangsan]

With regards to the Ky vs Justice matchup, Ill post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0KsyAUTWo0#t=1367

 

 

Obviously Machabo is the best Ky player, so watching this video must be taken with a grain of salt. But I can't see why Ky can't keep Justice locked down, with my personal experience against the character and watching others play against her. You clearly cannot play full screen, and instead must keep yourself just outside of the range of Michael Blade and pressure her to keep her from doing anything, be ready to bait Michael Blade, both super an ordinary version. tk hs stun edge along with it's FRC point really gives Ky an opening to get in close. I found using j.SE frc points and either running or air dashing proved to be fairly effective at closing the distance with her and getting rid of her grenades all at once.

 

 

Any chance on a write up against Order Sol?

 

Yeah, that looks like Machabo is just trolling some random scrub.

 

As for Order Sol, I could do that for the context of AC, but the +R matchup is a LOT different and I don't understand it too well.

Maybe I'll do the Machabo-Ogawa match next since that one is pretty epic.

[Eshi]

yeah actually the Justice player in that vid seemed pretty incompetent

 

the footage of Ain Ky vs TON Justice here at 2:50 seems to reflect what you guys are saying about this matchup.

 

Fuck it really looks a lot worse than what I've been playing against. The players I've played didn't have anywhere near as good control of the mines. Even when I played against Eshi at CW6 here, despite all of the mistakes I made (jesus fuck I played so horribly and choked a lot) it was actually really easy for me to get in because the mine formations were nowhere near as optimal.

 

If you look at TON vs Ain, you'll notice that he does a much better job of keeping Ky out because of throwing out the P K S mines in that order. If you just throw out P S like Eshi did a lot, you'll see that there's a pretty gaping hole in that formation if you don't cover it up with other formations like TON does. It's so easy to just jump right in the P S hole, and then I'm in at a range where if you try to throw out another mine, I can just stuff her out of it like with Stun Dipper for example

thanks I'm downloading these matches and never losing again =3 It didn't even occur to me that K missile is positioned perfectly for absorbing air stun edge. I definitely agree that this match-up is hard for him. 

[ehuangsan]

Vid Study - Machabo vs. Ogawa - Tougeki 2007

 

Very epic match between the best Ky of the time versus the guy who is probably the best GG player of all time. Machabo had the right ideas in the Ky vs. Eddie matchup, but Ogawa is just so frighteningly good that it doesn't really matter.

 

Of especial note is the lack of Ky 2S to attack the Eddie summon as Machabo opted to kill the summon with only air SE. If I had to guess, I would say it's because Machabo feared that Ogawa would react to the hitstun of Ky 2S with an immediate drill to a knockdown, which cannot be allowed in this matchup. At least with the air SE, the nobiru combo allows him to tech into the air to avoid the knockdown. Unfortunately, this rigid thinking causes Machabo's downfall as Ogawa exploits this beautifully.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDPqtvZ5Sg from 22:00

 

Round 1

 

22:00-22:18 - Machabo enacts Ky's basic game plan, which is to hound Eddie as safely and as often as possible. Ogawa tries to create space to activate the summon, as it may as well be as strong as Genei Jin in 3S.

 

22:18-22:21 - Eddie whiff 2S/Ky run in 6P(!) - very sharp tactics by Machabo. Lesser Kys like myself would've opted for 5S for a counterhit try in reaction to the 2S whiff. By running in, Ogawa has to guess if Ky is going to run in and throw or run in and hit buttons. Ogawa guesses wrong.

 

22:34-22:36 - Eddie 2P (hit) pause, summon (!) - sharp reflexes by Ogawa. Takes advantage of Machabo reacting to getting hit by the 2P with blocking to initiate the Eddie summon. It pays off drastically as 22:36-22:44 pretty much illustrates why Eddie is top tier.

 

22:52-22:55 - Ky FB star -> air SE (?)/Eddie drill -> Nobiru -> FB drill (!) - Again showing Machabo's penchant to air SE and here it was a mistake. He probably thought the FB star would stop a Nobiru combo by trading with the summon and leave Ky alive even if he got hit by the Nobiru, but unfortunately Ogawa is the best Eddie on the planet and finds a clever way to end the round. Machabo's reaction at the end of the round shows that he did not anticipate Ogawa's response.

 

Round 2

 

23:06 - Ky dash in 6P (!) - Ogawa tries to create space but Machabo does not let him. Good reaction on Machabo's part to just auto chain as Ogawa did not have enough tension to defend everything in the air. From here, the round just goes completely downhill for Ogawa as Machabo presses him like a bloodhound and never lets go.

 

23:24 - Ky FRC SE -> falling S (!) - Pretty way to end the round. Machabo baits a 2HS anti-air and combos off of it.

 

Round 3 - Ogawa immediately starts with summon to change things up as he was probably unhappy with not getting space to do a summon in the second round.

 

23:34-23:36 - Ky air SE whiff - here you can see Machabo's thinking to just do air SEs so that even if he gets hit by Nobiru, he can tech and airdash away. Of course, Ogawa notices Machabo's strategy as you will see.

 

23:46 - Eddie Nobiru (sacrifice) -> 2HS counterhit (!) - Ogawa rushes in with Eddie and the summon and yet has enough situational awareness to sacrifice the summon in front of him with the Nobiru to go for a counterhit 2HS. Very nicely done, although he misses the combo.

 

23:52 - Ky 2HS (!) - nice catch by Machabo, though he misses the super jump afterwards.

 

23:56 - Ky 5S ch -> stun dipper whiff - Unfortunate. Normally 5S counterhit will combo into stun dipper, but Machabo was just slightly too far. This little misstep turns things completely around for Ogawa, because...

 

23:58 - Ky air SE/Eddie far drill (!!) -> Mawaru (!!) - Goddamn. Honestly, this is the most brilliant move I've ever seen in a GG match. Machabo as usual tries to kill the summon with air SE and does not FRC as he thought he would be okay or at worst take damage off the nobiru and tech. Ogawa responds by using the summon as bait and then protecting the summon with a far drill, thereby allowing the summon to sneak behind Ky and hit him with a mawaru, which is the worst possible situation for Ky. That far drill along with the tactics and thinking behind it clearly illustrates why Ogawa is the best GG player in the world, and perhaps of all time. It deserves ten billion exclamation points.

 

24:06 - Ogawa tries to bait Ky's burst, but Machabo is patient and does not burst. Which allows Machabo to have one last chance but...

 

24:19-24:21 - Ky mistimed jump S oki (?)/Eddie wake up airthrow (!!) - Yes, it was a mistake on Ky's part to mistime that oki, but there are only a few players in the world who would 1) recognize that the misstiming is enough to air throw, 2) have the balls to actually do wake up airthrow. Brutal. If this happens to you, you should just put down the controller right there and shake the other guy's hand, even if the match isn't over yet.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Eh-sama once again thank you for the write ups.

 

Do you think we can use majority of these matchup write ups you have and apply them to Xrd, 

 

Do you have any advice on improving one's airthrows, to keep people afraid of jumping/;leaving the corner? I have been trying to work on that this last month, but not clear consistent results.

 

Does anyone have advice for dealing with Robo-Ky?

[Coffeeling]

Just remember to swat at drill residue puddles/glow. Getting hit by surprise Nobiru/Mawaru is unhealthy I've heard. One of the things you saw Machabo change after Ogawa mauled him in the next set was attacking whiffed drills to prevent drill puddle summon shenanigans.

[ehuangsan]

Eh-sama once again thank you for the write ups.

 

Do you think we can use majority of these matchup write ups you have and apply them to Xrd, 

 

Do you have any advice on improving one's airthrows, to keep people afraid of jumping/;leaving the corner? I have been trying to work on that this last month, but not clear consistent results.

 

Does anyone have advice for dealing with Robo-Ky?

 

I haven't been paying attention to Xrd at all so I don't know. Maybe?

 

As for the airthrows against the corner, Ky has much more damaging AAs than airthrows, so airthrows should really be towards the bottom in priority. Though, it is an excellent counter to IAD out of the corner.

 

I might do a robo-ky writeup sometime.

[ehuangsan]

Sliding 5K Option Select

 

This was a staple for me, but now it's kinda rendered obsolete because of 3HS. Although if the other side is adept at slashbacking the 3HS, then this might still be occasionally useful.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByBkPSP_5qg @ 2:27

 

Along with the sliding FD trick that I mentioned earlier, this takes advantage of how Ky retains some slight forward momentum after a run even after sticking out a poke. The idea is to be out of throw range when the 5K is active and slightly after they get up, and then slide into throw range after they have gotten up with the last few frames of the 5k, and then tap 4S while holding K. This becomes an option select where either 5K hits or is blocked, and then chains into 5S, or 5K whiffs because of some invincible move, and you end up briefly FDing into block.

 

Many people get hit by this because they think Ky is within throw range for wake up throw, when he actually isn't. It also looks like it can be reversaled, but unless the other side has a reversal that is active in 10 frames or less, then it is a safe approach. As in the vid, since either blue or gold burst strikes at 19F, it's too slow so Ky can block and punish accordingly.

 

This shouldn't really be a primary option as I think 3HS and safe jump S oki are better, but it can be used to see if the other side will wake up burst or super and hang themselves for you. This will also lose to wakeup backdash or wakeup hold FD, though if you are savvy then you can throw the 5K a little later to catch a backdash in exchange for risking eating a reversal.

 

 

[BladeOfJustice7]

^Now that I had a chance to read that, good article, can't wait to hit training mode and do a lot of testing experimentation.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Sliding 5K Option Select

 

This was a staple for me, but now it's kinda rendered obsolete because of 3HS. Although if the other side is adept at slashbacking the 3HS, then this might still be occasionally useful.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByBkPSP_5qg @ 2:27

 

Along with the sliding FD trick that I mentioned earlier, this takes advantage of how Ky retains some slight forward momentum after a run even after sticking out a poke. The idea is to be out of throw range when the 5K is active and slightly after they get up, and then slide into throw range after they have gotten up with the last few frames of the 5k, and then tap 4S while holding K. This becomes an option select where either 5K hits or is blocked, and then chains into 5S, or 5K whiffs because of some invincible move, and you end up briefly FDing into block.

 

Many people get hit by this because they think Ky is within throw range for wake up throw, when he actually isn't. It also looks like it can be reversaled, but unless the other side has a reversal that is active in 10 frames or less, then it is a safe approach. As in the vid, since either blue or gold burst strikes at 19F, it's too slow so Ky can block and punish accordingly.

 

This shouldn't really be a primary option as I think 3HS and safe jump S oki are better, but it can be used to see if the other side will wake up burst or super and hang themselves for you. This will also lose to wakeup backdash or wakeup hold FD, though if you are savvy then you can throw the 5K a little later to catch a backdash in exchange for risking eating a reversal.

This is still a great alternative to using 3hs on oki. I will be practicing this once my monitor arrives.

 

Any chance we could get a write up on robo-ky and/or order sol eh-sama?

[ehuangsan]

Sure, I'll try to get to that.

Had a rather dismal showing at EVO since I mostly focused on Aquapazza instead. lol.

At least I got second in AP!

[BladeOfJustice7]

Lol congrats on that then

 

Any Japanese players partook in AP?

[ehuangsan]

Mabusin (SBO top 8 Chizuru) and KOG (best Tamaki in the world aniec) showed up to play from JP. Though I was rather surprised to find that they aren't really ahead of us by all that much.

[BladeOfJustice7]

It is still possible to get a write up on Order Sol and/or Robo Ky matchups?

[ehuangsan]

Ky vs. Order Sol

 

+R is rather odd compared to AC but if I had to guess, I'd say it's 4.5-5.5 in favor of Order Sol as he just wins out on damage quite often due to lvl2+ attacks and CH fafnir. This also happens to be one of my favorite matchups to play as both sides are very active throughout each round, and Order Sol is a great Ky combo dummy for whatever reason.

 

Neutral

 

Similar to the Sol matchup, only Ky should be much more aggressive. If he does not, then Order Sol can become very dangerous once he gets his charge gauge up, so you have to minimize his chances of charging up.

Ky will attack very aggressively with 5S, 2S, and ground SE. Think Buppa style attacking. Order Sol will try to fight back, but Ky's ground pokes give him the advantage and Ky's anti airs will negate all of Order Sol's options if your reflexes are sharp enough. Unlike other matchups though, being aggressive against Order Sol is generally okay.

 

Also, everything chains into a stun dipper combo against Order Sol. Far 5S CH will combo into it, 5S > 2S > 5HS will combo into it, etc. For whatever reason, Order sol is one of the easiest characters to combo, so exploit that for all its worth.

 

Order Sol will attack while trying to build to at least lvl 2., from which point he can inflict some massive damage off random hits. If he has lvl 2 and you get hit by CH Fafnir you pretty much lose, but other than that Ky should stay aggressive. Greed Sever will also beat Fafnir.

 

Offense

 

You can keep it standard and play as if you are playing against Sol, with a couple of caveats.

Using stun dipper to check a jump is inadvisable if he has FB fafnir available, and banned if he has that and lvl 2. If he hits you with CH fafnir + lvl 2+, the round essentially ends.

FB star oki into mixup is also very strong against Order sol, and also seems to lead into ridiculous amounts of damage to him due to Order Sol being the best Ky combo dummy ever. You can get away with doing a lot of damaging combos on Order Sol if he blocks wrong. The rule with Order Sol is if you think it could combo, it probably does.

 

Defense

 

Order Sol has a two way mixup with gun blaze, but in reality it isn't that scary. Even if you get hit, the damage isn't really high so just take a guess and don't worry about it.

Order Sol really swings the match in his favor based on how quickly he can blow Ky up in the corner. He can do massive amounts of damage near or at the corner, so you will have to be patient and try to block your way out.

In general, look for a moment to super jump away. Order Sol cannot really deal well against super jumps, and will most of the time be content with just using that opportunity to charge up instead of pursuing you.

In +R, he has a lot of new strange corner setups that disable air dash if you tech incorrectly, which is very counterintuitive as it looks like you could tech and airdash away in those situations. I don't understand them too well, but from what I've seen front teching will get you killed extremely quickly if you keep crashing into those setups. So if you have to tech, lean towards neutral teching towards the ground.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Awesome write up eh-sama.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Any chance we could get a write up on Millia and Chipp? I played a Millia recently, although I've never played one and don't know the matchup I was certain I must avoid getting knocked down under any and all circumstances.