[CSE] Jin vs Mu

[Moy_X7]

Match Start

If you both use 5C at the start of the match it will most likely end up in a trade unless your timing on your 5C is absolutely flawless. Your other option is to just jump towards her while holding Barrier and punish her whiffed 5C with j.B, just be ready to react to an air throw. Or course she can just do the same against your 5C, so be aware of that. Mus who don't want to use 5C will probably just IAD backwards or back dash so your safest bet at the start of the match is to just jump towards her while holding Barrier to see what she does.

Neutral

Full Screen

From full screen, Mu will shoot out Steins in order to setup her ping-pong laser (236D). There's not much you can do to thwart her laser fortress, you can try and intercept her first attempt of shooting out a Stein but after that, the barrage of small beams will clash with your ice blades. Other than that, just try to IB the lasers and make your way in.

Then there's Habaya... this move is annoying as shit. If you read the Habaya, you can just 2D her out of it. However, once that thing starts moving, you'll have no choice but to avoid it. You can try jumping or air dashing over it but Mu will probably have already recovered and will intercept your obvious areal approach as she sees fit. Air Habaya is easier to intercept thanks to DP B.

Other than that, you always have your Ice Wave to get a lucky hit on her Stein/Habaya/236D start-up.

Long-Mid Range

She's at her strongest at this range, her 5C, 2C, 6C, j.C and j.2C (if she's feeling lucky) will intercept approaches from most angles due to their godly hit-boxes. You can crouch under j.C and use a low to punish it. You can jump over 5C and punish with j.B on the way down. You can bait and punish the 2C with a j.236D. You'll have to stop your dash with a Barrier in order to avoid getting hit by 6C. You'll probably just have to block the j.2C, that thing is punishable if she doesn't do it low enough to the ground even if she cancels into Habaya so you probably won't have to worry too much about it.

Your 5C is faster than her 5C but it doesn't cover as much range as hers but don't be afraid to challenge her at optimal 5C range if you're free to do so. I would just be careful when backed into a corner and trying to challenge her with my own 5C because a 5C confirm from her near the corner is going to hurt a lot.

Be really careful when using 2D at optimal range, if she uses 6C at around the same time then you're going to get hurt, REALLY hurt. That and her 5C covers about the same range as your 2D and it's faster than it. So yeah, be extremely careful when using 2D.

You can try and challenge her in the air with your j.C. Your j.C is faster and covers about the same range but her j.C leads to a shitload of damage. Use proper judgment here.

Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs Her Defense

Once you get in, do your standard Jin pressure, use 2A x N and 5B a few times and mix it up with 6A, 2B, and JCs. The 6A acts as a frame trap and grants you some damage + frame advantage (only the 5B > 6A gatling will work as a frame trap, she can mash out of 2A > 6A). The 2B is just there for people who guess-block the 6A and you can use it to frame trap people with 2B > delayed 5C. The JCs to bait the DP and to reset pressure (just don't get too predictable). As far as 6A frame trapping goes, if she IBs the 5B, she'll be able to mash her way out with 2A so be wary of that.

If you're going for JC > pressure reset/cross-up j.2C, be aware that her 2C will AA you for free and that she can 2A your cross-up j.2Cs. If you're going to attempt to pressure reset after 2D, make sure that you're within 2A range, or else you'll just get mashed on. If you're going for a pressure reset or a mix-up after a freeze, be ready to bait the DP both in the air and on the ground.

If you're attacking her and a laser is about to bounce back at you, jump cancel or special cancel into DP D if possible.

Her Offense vs Your Defense

The moves that gatling into her 6B are 2A, 6A, and 5B, so be mentally prepared to block the overhead after any of those. You can mash out of 2A > 6B with 2A on regular block and out of 6A/5B > 6B on IB only. Other than that, just DP if you want to avoid frame traps. Always IB the 2nd hit for free meter and more frame advantage on block. Low level Mus will auto-pilot 6B into Level 1 SoD, you can punish those people with 66 5B after IB'ing SoD . Mu can special cancel the 6B into her DP to keep you on your toes should you attempt to start pressure after the IB so be ready to bait those. She can also RC the 2nd hit of 6B to tag you with 2B as you prepare to block the 2nd hit of 6B for a gimmicky mix-up.

The moves that she can JC are 6A, 5B, 3C, and 2C (on hit only) so be careful when DP'ing or Bursting after those. If Mu has 50 Heat handy, she might decide to do JC > j.2C as an overhead and convert it into a combo with an RC, so be mentally prepared to try and block that. If she does JC > j.2C without meter, she'll be at frame disadvantage if she doesn't cancel it into Habaya, so you can try to start some pressure afterwards. If she does cancel it into Habaya, you can knock her outta the air with a DP B. Basically if she doesn't land immediately after j.2C, then that means that she will cancel it into Habaya, so be ready to DP B her if you don't see her land immediately.

Mu will be fishing for CHs mid-screen using her 5C. Sometimes Mus will auto-pilot 5C > 6C and either Stein cancel or special cancel the 6C. What you wanna do here is IB the 6C, dash forward and immediately cancel the dash with Barrier. You'll block SoD automatically if she cancels the 6C into that, if not then she'll probably cancel it into Habaya at which point you can 2D her out of it. If she cancels 6C into Stein and jumps/IADs backward, then all you can really do is chase after her.

Speaking of SoD, don't take any chances against that thing since she can charge it to eat some of your primers or to make it harder to punish. Just back dash mid-screen and super jump Barrier in the corner if Level 1 SoD isn't used immediately. She probably won't want to use Level 1 SoD as that thing is punishable on IB but if she does, she'll probably do it as an auto-pilot or to try to tag you out of your jump in the corner.

Gimmicks and Misc. Info

Gimmicks

Punishes and Useful Frame Data

2B: Neutral, mostly used to reset pressure.
6B: -1, can be special canceled only.
j.2C: 10F of landing recovery, can be special canceled. You can punish the Habaya cancel with a DP B.
623C: -27, for punishment, if you blocked it in the air, land and do 66 5C. If you blocked it on the ground, do 66 2C mid-screen or 66C in the corner.
j.623C: Vulnerable on the way down, 15F of landing recovery.
SoD Level 1/2: -10, can be punished on IB with 66 5B if close enough to her or with 66 5C if you're too far away.
632146C: -32, the CH state wears out fast so you'll probably only be able to punish her with 5C/66 5C.

[TheYukianesa-01]

I seem to have some problems approaching her, any tips?

[eQualz]

Gotta be patient in this match up. Throw ice swords to interrupt her movement and move in slowly with barrier dash and barrier jump. Try to catch her with your 2D in mid range. Just be aware that she still has DP once you get in.

[TheYukianesa-01]

Gotta be patient in this match up. Throw ice swords to interrupt her movement and move in slowly with barrier dash and barrier jump. Try to catch her with your 2D in mid range. Just be aware that she still has DP once you get in.

Thanks, I'll try.

[bakahyl]

Predictable ice swords will be stopped by a simple habaya. Jin's 2d is slower than her 5c and it has roughly the same range though

[shtkn]

mu's normals outrange jin's and she can spam lasers when further away

get 50 meter (learn to IB lasers!) and react to any laser summon with ice wave. if you can see hte future, get 25 meter and D ice car her when she summons.

use that opportunity to get in and don't let go.

her combos can easily do over half life, so don't get reckless. stay vigilant and watch out for all of her gigantic C normals and her DP

the non-charged lasers ahve limited tracking, usually, just neutral jump, land, then run forward is enough to dodge a group of lasers

[bakahyl]

get 50 meter (learn to IB lasers!) and react to any laser summon with ice wave. if you can see hte future, get 25 meter and D ice car her when she summons.

Mu can jump cancel or special cancel her steins and if jin has 50 heat, i think a decent Mu player won't be throwing out carelessly a habaya or totsuka's anymore and if they do then i am sure they will be in the air in which a CH ice wave doesn't do that much damage.

the non-charged lasers ahve limited tracking, usually, just neutral jump, land, then run forward is enough to dodge a group of lasers

The point of those steins are most of the time to set up her totsuka and combined with her habaya , is to make Jin work much harder to approach her.

Maybe a good advice is to not let her dominate the air space with your fubuki A or B when she tries to IAD you (i am sure fubuki cannot be punished when barrier blocked in the air), Jin's j.a when close and maybe j.c for mid range because Mu and Jin have similar range (but if Mu scores a CH with her j.c , you are going to expect a 4k damage combo though). Also punish Mu's close range jump in's (her j.b and j.c have a poor vertical reach) with jin's 2a (don't get too predictable, otherwise she might use j.2c to FC you)

edit: If you get in, you should opt to pressure her with jump in's and some diagonal ice words to bait her AA. Mu's 2c is nerfed compared to cs2 and her 6a has poor vertical range to work as a reliable AA. Eventhough you should watch out for random air throws.

[eQualz]

Even if Ice Wave doesn't do much damage, it still gives Jin a little time to breath and to move in. Hell I even do 214C > RC > j.2C after watching Fenrich doing it even though it's more of a gamble than anything else since all need you to do is duck.

I don't recommend using Fubuki B, there are a few Jin who still use it but I'm not one of them. Learn to use 2C instead, it might be slow but its range is not to be underestimated.

[bakahyl]

Even if Ice Wave doesn't do much damage, it still gives Jin a little time to breath and to move in. Hell I even do 214C > RC > j.2C after watching Fenrich doing it even though it's more of a gamble than anything else since all need you to do is duck.

I don't recommend using Fubuki B, there are a few Jin who still use it but I'm not one of them. Learn to use 2C instead, it might be slow but its range is not to be underestimated.

IMO ice wave is not even that reliable because as i said, steins are jump and special cancelable (i have reacted on an icewave with my own dp). Personally i think the meter should be better used on rapid gimmicks and maybe resets

[Moy_X7]

Updated the thread, there's a lot of crap which I didn't cover such as Stein formations for optimal 236D usage, oki setups, Stein cross-up mix-up etc so let me know just exactly how that works if you know anything. If not, I'll just scout the Mu board for info later.