[CSE] Rachel Combos

[gli]

For those having trouble with j.2C(lv2) > frog > 1D > 5CC:

- if your 5CC whiffs due to opponent teching then you did 1D too late

- if you did 1D too early then your opponent will be too high when you hit 5CC

- the lower your opponent is when you confirm the lv.2 j.2C, the earlier you have to input 1D

[Chiizu]

Or you could input 1D almost as soon as your frog comes out and delay 5CC depending on the height. I found this way works better for me but to each his own.

[gli]

Never thought of that way haha. Nice.

[Chiizu]

Also, it does look like you get more damage from the new combo (let's find a nickname for it already) even if you go down the BBL route.

These are the 2 combos I compared:

6A CH>5B>j.C2D>j.2C lvl2>236B>j.C>dj.C>BBL>frog>236A>dash 3C>214C>236A>3C>214C>3C>214B 3782 damage and pumpkin out

6A CH>5B>j.C2D>j.2C lvl2>j.214A>1D>5CC>236C>5C>BBL>214B>5CC>214A 3954 damage, pumpkin and frog out.

It's a combo I came up with on the spot so there are probably many ways to optimise it but just to give you an idea of how much potential this combo has, both in damage and oki options.

[Chazmobile]

I'm so glad I'm getting the game tomorrow, I can't wait to practice all of this.

Thanks a bunch Sakaku, much love as always <3

[Chiizu]

Tried another couple of random combos midscreen to corner:

5B>5CD>3C8D>5B>j.C2D>dj.2C lvl2>236B>j.C>dj.C>j.214C>BBL>frog>5CC>236A>(frog activates)>6B>5CC>dash 3C>214C>3C>frog 4.9k and frog out

5B>5CD>3C8D>5B>j.C2D>dj.2C lvl2>air frog>1D>5CC>236C>6A>5B>j.C>dj.C>j.214C>BBL>pumpkin>5CC>frog 5.1k and both summons, blah blah blah

So yeah, 3 stocks regen, you get both pumpkin and frog, how 'bout that?

[Sakaku]

The first one is our BnB in that situation.

The second one gives slightly more damage but 5 less meter. You can do [...] air frog 1D 5CC 236C 236C (dash) 5B j.C [...] for slightly better damage and heat gain (100 more damage and 2 more heat), but it's harder to land so it's not really worth it.

Hitting an opponent midscreen with 4 wind (and a good starter) doesn't happen very often though, but it's good to know we have a combo if that case ever happens.

Which combo variant do you guys use for the new combo?

[starter] 5B > j.C > 2D > jc > j.2C [lvl2] > j.214A > (delay) > 1D > 5CC > 236C > (frog hits) > (dash) > 214C > 5CC > pumpkin oki

seems to be the most reliable combo midscreen

In the corner I tend to do

[starter] 5B > j.C > 2D > jc > j.2C [lvl2] > j.214A > (delay) > 1D > 5CC > 236C > (frog hits) > (dash) > 5CC > (dash) > 3C > 214C > 3C > frog oki

[TD]

l love that combo. love it.

[Herbal Grey]

just a side note to chiizu, if you're just talking theoretically highest damage and heat combos, you'll get about 200 more damage off that bnb if you do = 5b 6b 5d 3[C] (5 hits) = as your starter instead of standard 5b 5cd. (for that SPECIFIC combo)

i think in general it's better to do that starter anyway because you can confirm 5b 6b 5d 3[C] from farther away... (like if you hit them with the edge of 5b, 5cc won't connect, but 6b 3c will)

edit: just spent a little more time in training. looks like it can be situational on which starter does more damage...just tried essentially the combo 15 bnb from the combo vid with both 5b 5cd 3[C] did 200 more damage than 5b 6b 5d 3[C]. so it can depend on the combo

[Warhound]

combos involving lvl2 j.2C are just plain discouraging. I've had a rough time with Rachel in the past but, I've always been able to figure her out combo-wise. But this is terrible, I practiced for about 2 hours and I could only get it to the point where I can do it about 30% of the time. I've read about the common problems with doing combos that utilize lvl2 j.2C but it only helps so much. I don't know how you guys do it.

[kirbster]

Your problem is that you only practiced 2 hours.

Every Rachel player goes through that. Eventually it'll become muscle memory, so don't give up! Don't forget to :

1) Catch them close to the ground with 5b

2) Input 2d during the j.C hitstun, then jump cancel right away

3) Delay the j.2c. You have more time than you'd think.

[Warhound]

I'll try to keep those in mind, thanks.

Just gotta wait, to train again or else I risk my fingers falling off.

[gli]

Recorded Rachel's 5C Fatal Counter corner combo.

http://youtu.be/AkFO8cOKXwg

[[SpA]Relentless]

Haha that one is awesome. Did you test on which characters it works on? (I don't think A cannon hits meaty like this on everyone).

[Sakaku]

It works against everyone with a small crouching hitbox.

It doesn't work on Rachel, Tager, Bang, Relius and Hakumen.

There aren't many practical uses because the most character will stand after moves that have a long recovery. However you can frame trap with 5A > 5C (gli made a video about it iirc) if your opponent is mashing. This should be useful against mashing Noels (and Jins), right Rele? :D

[[SpA]Relentless]

:<

Too bad it doesn't work on Rachel cause that would be a great punish for whiffed cat chair. I wonder if there's some kind of variation on her.

[Herbal Grey]

i didn't see a variety of combos off 4b...i know it's a low percentage overhead but this is a pretty decent combo and it's hit confirmable mid screen.

4 wind, 50 heat

4b 5b 6b 5d 3c 7d BBL sj 8d 9 j.2c (fatal counter) 214a 3[C] 5b then j.2c level two...nets about 4.6k off slow-ass overhead

also, i haven't tried this combo yet on a variety of hit boxes, but it works on ragna.

[[SpA]Relentless]

I tested some stuff today.

Blocked cat chair punish in corner vs Rachel:

5C(FC), 236A, dash 5B, 5CDC, rest of bnb. You can't loop it after the first hit but this does good damage.

Variation with meter:

5C(FC), 236A, dash 5BD, 3C(3), BBL, rest of bnb. 5C proration why so gdlk. Although I have to test if doing 5CD, 3C, BBL does more damage overall.

Some other combos

5B, 5CD, 3C(3), 236C, 5A(1), (j.B), j.C, 2D, dj.2C(Lv2), j.214A, 1D, V, 5CC, 236C (frog hits), dash up, 5CC, 214B

You can sub 5CD with 6BD, it will actually leave you closer to the enemy.

3 wind, does about 4k, gains ~1 wind back and nets about 40 heat. Doing a short dash before 5A is NOT actually needed against most chars except Hakumen. You can leave out j.B but I strongly recommend doing it, it makes the j.2C and the 1D 5CC part about 10 times easier and does almost the same damage. Against some chars you actually have to do the j.B if you don't want to do dash 5A (Hazama, Carl iirc). Doesn't work on chars that fall out of 3C(3), 236B/C (Relius is one of them apparently).

If you started from the middle of the stage, the enemy will land in the corner perfectly. You can do 3C, 214C, 5CC, 214B as an ender then for a bit more damage and 10 more heat.

Variation with 2A starter:

2A, 5B, 6BD, 3C(3), 236C, 5A(1), (j.B), j.C, 2D, dj.2C(Lv2), j.214A, 1D, V, 5CC, 236C (frog hits), dash up, 5CC, 214B

3 winds, about 3k, about 40 heat, gains ~1 wind back. Timing is stricter because the proration is higher. Rest like above.

I have to test if 5B, 6BD, 3C(3), 236B, 5A works on Hakumen without a short dash since 6BD leaves you closer than 5CD.

Fatal Counter Variation (use for punishing whiffed DPs etc).

5C(FC)D, 3C(3), 236C, 5B, j.B, j.C, 2D, dj.2C(Lv2), j.214A, 1D, V, 5CC, 236C (frog hits), dash up 5CC, 214B

3 wind, meterless 4,6k, rest as above.

[gamester]

Sorry if I may be going off the current point of discussion, I thought I'd bring up a combo I quite like using in the corner that I feel might have something that isn't quite right. I must apologize in advance, I'm not very good at explaining things in general. I'm also getting used to the Dustloop forums.

Here is the combo that I use in the corner, I'm not quite sure if it is good for building heat or leaves me open for attack after I have used it. I might have written it out with a few problems like explaining Jump Cancel in the format like (J.c).

5CC > 236B > Dash Cancel > 6A > BBL > Frog > (wait till they fall and catch them with) 3C > Frog activates (during 3C) > 6A > 5B > J.c (Jump Cancel) > J.B > J.C > J.c > J.B > J.C > J.236A

Doesn't require wind and but does use BBL. Can't remember the exact damage from memory but it does around 5k whenever I've tried it.

I feel that near the last part of my combo, on the 2nd jump cancel, I could probably try J.2C instead to not hang around in the air and instead come down to the ground with my opponent. I use this a fair bit when I can but not sure if this combo has some problems with it.

[gli]

5CC > 236B > Dash Cancel > 6A > BBL > Frog > (wait till they fall and catch them with) 3C > Frog activates (during 3C) > 6A > 5B > J.c (Jump Cancel) > J.B > J.C > J.c > J.B > J.C > J.236A

While it's nice to think of this part of the combo as Dash Cancel it's not correct. It's just a normal dash. Nice job though just a minor detail.

5k is good damage but it's only useful if it will kill the opponent otherwise this gives them a chance to air tech and get out of the corner. As Rachel your goal is mainly to carry your opponent into the corner so you can capitalize on your ability to mix-up fairly easily in the corner. So usually for corner combos you will see it end with j.2C / 5CC / 3C with either frog or pumpkin summoned at the end to setup okizeme.

On another note:

What do we currently have as far as optimal guard crush combos (both midscreen and corner)? Rachel has lost a few primer breaking moves in EX so getting a lv.3 j.2C as a starter doesn't seem as likely without RC.

5CC no longer breaks primer.

j.2C lv2 no longer breaks primer (lv3 only breaks 1 primer)

4B and 2C both recover too slowly to get lv.3 j.2C out in time.

[gamester]

Sorry about writing Dash Cancel there, I didn't realize that xD

Thanks for the feedback/info though, I've put what you've told me into practice.

I went back into training mode and tried changing how I tackle this combo. I cut out the part where I did 6A after 3C onwards and instead replaced it with 4B > 5CC > Pumpkin or I sometimes just used 5CC > Pumpkin. Still does around 5K damage. It keeps me on the ground and more prepared to keep them in the corner though. I also checked that it can help build around 29-30 heat and regenerate wind resources/stock by around 3-4 wind.

Talking about guard crushing with Rachel. I can only seem to do something like J.2C lvl3 when my opponent is blocking frog in the corner and 4B when they are blocking frog in general. I try not to use 2C when they block as I would more than likely forget to use Rapid Cancel and leave myself open for attack.

[Rele]

About 2C(CH) combos:

Windless, 50 heat: 2C(CH), sj.[C], j.C, j.632146C, V, 214A, etc. Windless combo into super from 2C(CH), anywhere, about 2,5k + oki. Utilize the float of j.[C] to go under the opponent, then cancel j.C into BBL. It's AWESOME, practice this cause there will be that one time in 100 matches where this knowledge will make a difference.

If you have 2 wind and 50 heat, there are two optimal combos: One for heat, one for damage.

They are both already known, but I thought I'd point this out.

Heat: 2C(CH), 2D, 5B, j.C, 2D, dj.2C(Lv2), V, 236B, j.C, dj.C, j.214C, V, 632146C, 214A, 236A, d.3C(1), 214C (frog hits), 236A, 3C(1), 214C, 3C, 214B

Does about 2,8k. If you started the combo with 50 heat, you'll be left with more than 40 after the combo.

I prefer this one.

Damage: 2C(CH), 7D, 632146C, sj.8D, 66, j.236A(w), j.2C(Lv3), 214A, d.3C(2-3), 236A (frog hits), [3C(1), 214C, 3C, 214B] or [5CC, 214B]

Does around 3,2k.

If you have two wind, go for one of those two combos. Don't do something like 2C(CH), 1D, 6A, 632146C, 214A etc. It results in about 2,8k as well, but gains a lot less heat (about 25 if you started the combo with 50 heat).

[gli]

New Rachel CMV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLS4Y6Ti6UE

Utilizes the 236B/C launcher against specific characters into big damage.

j.2C > air sword iris > lv2 j.2C combos!

7k combo at the end!

j.2C sword iris combo route:

starter > 3C(3) > 236B > 5A(2) > 5B > sj.[C] > j.C > jc9 > j.2C > j.214C > lv2 j.2C > ...

[tofurr]

Bloooop Transcript

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COMBOCOMBO, COMBO, COMBO, COMBO, j.2C, COMBOCOMBOCOMBO, BBL, BBL, TD

Damage/Heat Gain/Wind Usage/Wind Recovery

Notes

2A, 5BD, 3C(3), 236B, 5A(2), 5B, sj.[C], j.C, JC9, j.2C, j.214C, falling j.2C (lv2), 2A (whiff), sj.C, j.C, j.236A

2592/37/1/0

2A, 5BD, 3C(3), 236B, 5A(2), 5B, sj.[C], j.C, JC9, j.2C, j.214C, falling j.2C (lv2), 236B, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C

2676/40/1/1

2A, 5BC, 3C(3), 236B, 5A(2), 5B, sj.[C], j.C, JC9, j.2C, j.214C, falling j.2C (lv2), j.214A3D, 3C(3), 236B, (frog activates), 236A, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C, BBL, 236A, 3C(1), 214C, 3C(2), 214A

3539/57/2/2

Uses 50 Heat you gain.

6B, 5D3C(3), 236B, 5A(2), 5B, sj.[C], j.C, JC9, j.2C, j.214C, falling j.2C (lv2), 2A (whiff), j.C, JC, j.C, j.236A

2902/36/1/0

6B(CH), 5D3C (whiff), 66, 5B, j.C2D, JC, j.2C (lv2), 2A (whiff), 5C(whiff)C, 214A, 665B, (frog activates), 236A (x2), 665B, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C

3281/39/2/1

j.1D2C cross over, 3C(3), 236B, 5A(2), 5B, sj.[C], j.C, JC9, j.2C, j.214C, falling j.2C (lv2), 236B, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C, BBL, 214A, 236A, 3C(1), 214C, 236A, (frog activates), j.2C, j.214B

4221/58/1/2

Requires 50 Heat. In the video it shows using one extra wind in mix-up, to show that you can gain two back in the combo.

5B (AACH), j.C2D, JC, j.2C (lv2), j.214A3D, 5CC, 236C, (frog activates), 66, 4B, 5B, j.C2D, JC, j.2C, 236B, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C, BBL, 214A, 236A, 3C(1), 214C, (frog activates), 3C(3), 214B

5266/61/3/3

Uses 50 Heat you gain.

TD (lv5), j.TD(lv5)

2628/0/0/0

Uses 100 Heat. The point being that this punishes Mu's SoD (63214C) on normal block if you're cornered, otherwise this makes no sense

5B, 5CD, 3C(3)8D, 663C(3), BBL, SJ8D, J9, j.2C (lv3), 214A, 2C, (frog activates), 3C(3), 236B, 665B, j.C2D, JC, j.2C (lv2), j.214A3D, 5CC, 3C (whiff), 66, 236B, 66, 5B, j.C, JC, j.C, j.214C, BBL, 214A, 236A, 3C(1), 214C, (frog activates), 3C(3), 214B

7177/78?/5/5

Requires 50 Heat. Uses 50 Heat you gain. It uses 3 winds, and recovers 1 wind before using 2 more winds. After that it recovers 4 winds.

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EDIT: Thanks for the fixes, Spa. :3

[Rele]

:psyduck: :psyduck:

http://pastebin.com/GBd1tsbB