[CSE] Tsubaki vs Hakumen

[pktazn]

Discuss the match-up here.

[Kiba]

Abuse unblockables and throws where you can.

Do not use 22C for blockstring enders. Our blockstrings can easily be IB'd, and using 22X gives Hak more options to parry.

Remember, on wakeup, if Hak has at least 3 magatamas, all of our reversal options can be beaten. You will have to unfortunately block and take what's coming, and in the corner, it can be a nightmare.

236X can be parried on reaction if the Hak is alert, so be careful. You want to be very patient in this matchup.

You usually lose when he's air dashing to you. You can try to AA him but he can parry it on reaction, and you can try to throw him but his j.C will usually beat you. With that said, it's not really advised to go air to air with Hakumen. He out ranges us hard.

[shad0whiei]

This is a matchup I may be able to give info on after I get extend. My roommate mains hakumen. Ill see if I cant force em to play some when extend comes our way~

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[SansProtocol]

I'll go more into detail once I play some local matches with PK before I can confirm this. However, I'm fairly certain Haku's new Kishuu can go right through 22x as it's Head/Body/Projectile invincible now from 5-14F. That would also mean it would go through most of Tsu-Tsu's specials as well but that needs to be tested. There's a few other things I want to want to try out before I do the write-up, but I wanted to throw that out there.

[Kiba]

22X can be parried on reaction, but with that said, which one would provide you with a greater reward?

Parry > combo, or kishuu > combo?

[SansProtocol]

Kishuu to make a move whiff. It is definitely worth the risk of me mistiming the command dash and getting hit if I can get a 3C/5C CH. I suggest Kishuu as well as it'll go through the 22D unblockable as well, which can't be parried.

[Kiba]

Abuse unblockables where you can.

Kishuu to make a move whiff. It is definitely worth the risk of me mistiming the command dash and getting hit if I can get a 3C/5C CH. I suggest Kishuu as well as it'll go through the 22D unblockable as well, which can't be parried.

I feel to retract this piece of information I put forward.

Frankly I'm quite afraid of attacking Hakumen because of IB > Parry and the many holes in Tsubaki's pressure.

[BatousaiJ]

Throw Haku a lot as that shuts down his counter/kishu options and after you make him think twice about using those against our tools, go about business as usual.

I get a lot of 3C FC against Haku because they try to counter a dash 5A/5B or Kishuu in during neutral. If I see them trying to counter during my strings, I'll throw in more charge cancels into throws or add slight delays into gatlings like 5CC to catch them on a counter.

Just gotta watch out for TK/dash Hotaru on wake up as that'll hit you out of your throw attempt so I keep an eye on his magatama to see what he's capable of(3 - Tsubaki, 2- Low, 1- Kishu and etc).

I play him very different and look out for certain common setups depending on his magatama just as I know what I can do off a certain number of charges and etc.

Also, I tend to use a lot of empty jumps into throws and odd timed 2B and etc to mess with their sense of timing quite a bit and make sure they earn their jump in by keeping them out of the air with 2C.

As for the 22D unblockable thing, just let it go early, almost like a meaty if you anticipate them trying to Kishu through it, it'll knock em out before they enter their invul frames. They can at that point counter the 22D if they expect us not to go for the unblockable but it's a mix up, not a surefire thing to begin with.

It's a very mind games oriented match up where whoever gets in the opponent's head first gets a significant advantage, just like in the lambchops match up.

[Airk]

I feel to retract this piece of information I put forward.

Well, you can still do them meaty on his wakeup, since Kishuu isn't frame 1 invulnerable, it's just important to note that "when you can" qualifier. The timing is a little bit tricky for Hakumen, since if he does kishuu too early you can hit him when he cancels into Enma (or during his recovery frames if he doesn't cancel) because that is "just" low profile and will get hit by 22D.

Frankly I'm quite afraid of attacking Hakumen because of IB > Parry and the many holes in Tsubaki's pressure.

I've got no help for this one though, it just sucks.

[SansProtocol]

Keep your blockstrings random and try to bait counters, you'll do quite fine. I understand there are a lot of holes in her pressure where I can just use 6D/2D, but the Tsubaki player should try to mix it up.

However, Hakumen does have a way out of all of your set-ups and your true unblockable move now in EX. Just something to keep in mind but this is information that not even the other Hakumen players know. I'll write up something professional soon as they're behind. XD

It's a very mind games oriented match up where whoever gets in the opponent's head first gets a significant advantage, just like in the lambchops match up.

Except Tsubaki players have to get in their opponent's head to even stand a good chance. This match-up isn't silly bad, but it's definitely not in your favor. But, the info they said is correct. Haku has other tools though, which concerns me when it comes to the match-up. Kishuu, 6D/2D, Hotaru, agh.

[Kiba]

Thanks for the information guys. I will be sure to take them on board.

And also, I would rather be in the corner against Ragna than Hakumen. Jus' sayin'. I feel at a disadvantage no matter where I am on the screen lol.

If you opt to charge, he's gaining more MGs anyway, so he can afford to camp, and then he'll just use that stuff when he gets you in blockstun .

When you pressure, he can parry, get another MG and then have you in blockstun.

[pktazn]

Keep your blockstrings random and try to bait counters, you'll do quite fine. I understand there are a lot of holes in her pressure where I can just use 6D/2D, but the Tsubaki player should try to mix it up.

This is pretty much what I thought, but was failing to do when I went against your Hakumen last week haha. As annoying as the match-up can be, I think it's a lot of fun.

[Airk]

Is there anything we can do that DOESN'T lose to TK Hotaru on Hakumen's wakeup? (Okay, fine a perfectly timed meaty should beat it, right?)

[Errol]

Yeah, no.

I think it's basically the jump startup time, so you should have a minimum of something like 4 frames to hit them. Which you should be able to do anyway.

The other obvious thing is jab OS tech like you would use on Jin's C and D DPs. Although again, obvious, you're opening yourself up to him just mashing counter if you do that.

[Airk]

Yeah, no.

I think it's basically the jump startup time, so you should have a minimum of something like 4 frames to hit them. Which you should be able to do anyway.

The other obvious thing is jab OS tech like you would use on Jin's C and D DPs. Although again, obvious, you're opening yourself up to him just mashing counter if you do that.

Right. So Hotaru blows up throw and "wins" against us just blocking because it leaves him plus, but loses to meaty attacks, while counters blow up meaty attacks but lose to throws and "blocking".

Could be worse, I guess.