[CSE] Tsubaki vs Bang

[pktazn]

Discuss the match-up here.

[BatousaiJ]

I recently fought StayFree who I feel like is one of the best bangs I've faced thus far and have some stuff I want to write down here before I forget.

First of all, this match up is tough.

Given Bang gets free pressure a few times in a match as usual due to nails, magical 5A(mashing this is pro tactics) and the fact that his double air dash makes him incredibly annoying to anti air he gets in on us very easily and while you can just barrier guard and try to just block his pressure but after you get hit by his overhead after blocking it for the N'th time due to LOL NETPLAY, it gets quite frustrating.

I've found just disrespecting his pressure and DPing through the small gaps between some of his gatlings is a good way to return to neutral since Bang players are generally always, always, alwayssssssssssss pressing buttons(for good reasons).

His guard point is annoying to deal with but his 2D can bit hit out of by going with a low hit like 2B/3C and his 6D can be beaten with 5B > 5CC gatling which will make him guard point the first, teleport and get hit by 5C immediately.

So basically I started doing 2B > 5B > 5C which should hit him out of his options of 2D/6D and quick getup which is nice but you have to still watch out for Asura since that's a really good reversal DD that's infamously hard to punish(for no real good reason).

Bang is also one of those guys with the big hitboxes like Haku, Valk, Tager so j.236D > j.214B > 6C© stuff won't work on him either however because of his bigger hit box, you can connect 2C easier on the ground after gatling allowing for you to use the 214D BnB so keep that in mind.

Do chime in and post what you think about the match up and some stuff that's helped you fighting Bang.

[Kiba]

First of all, this match up is tough.

What matchup with Tsubaki isn't tbh.

Given Bang gets free pressure a few times in a match as usual due to nails, magical 5A(mashing this is pro tactics) and the fact that his double air dash makes him incredibly annoying to anti air he gets in on us very easily and while you can just barrier guard and try to just block his pressure but after you get hit by his overhead after blocking it for the N'th time due to LOL NETPLAY, it gets quite frustrating.

I try to IB but I always get caught in stagger pressure which is quite irritating. You're better of barrier blocking as you said. I wouldn't even attempt to look for ways to disrespect his pressure unless I DP his 5C. His 623B is unsafe on IB. You can punish it with dash 5A > Combo

His guard point is annoying to deal with but his 2D can bit hit out of by going with a low hit like 2B/3C and his 6D can be beaten with 5B > 5CC gatling which will make him guard point the first, teleport and get hit by 5C immediately.

I could understand this situation during pressure, but if he's doing this on his wakeup, you can throw him out of it, or use an unblockable. With that said, if he goes for the umbrella DD, and you're close to him, you can get a throw counter on him, but then you'd most likely have to RC to avoid getting hit by nails. Much point?

Don't try to poke him after he uses 6B, it's safe on block. Even on IB you still can't do anything. Don't try to poke him out of nails. They're + on block.

Just be sure to move around alot. If he uses nails from a distance and they catch you, it'll be in his favour.

[Airk]

What matchup with Tsubaki isn't tbh.

See, I was GOING to say this, but coming from me it would've sounded bitter.

Don't try to poke him after he uses 6B, it's safe on block. Even on IB you still can't do anything. Don't try to poke him out of nails. They're + on block.

I think you're probably thinking of 6A? The low kick? That's actually +1, so for heck's sake, don't do anything there unless it's like a DP. Nails are only plus under some circumstances, so you kinda have to learn; If he does it point blank, or if the bottom nail bounces, he's got a better situation than if he does it at any non-kissing-distance range. And most Bang's will expect to be able to pressure after, so it might be a good time to DP in the face.

Just be sure to move around alot. If he uses nails from a distance and they catch you, it'll be in his favour.

[Kiba]

See, I was GOING to say this, but coming from me it would've sounded bitter.

I think you're probably thinking of 6A? The low kick? That's actually +1, so for heck's sake, don't do anything there unless it's like a DP.

Yea thanks my mistake there heh. It felt like it had more frame advantage at one point but that's a good reminder. I continue to underestimate his 5A it seems.

[BatousaiJ]

I could understand this situation during pressure, but if he's doing this on his wakeup, you can throw him out of it, or use an unblockable. With that said, if he goes for the umbrella DD, and you're close to him, you can get a throw counter on him, but then you'd most likely have to RC to avoid getting hit by nails. Much point?

Don't try to poke him after he uses 6B, it's safe on block. Even on IB you still can't do anything. Don't try to poke him out of nails. They're + on block.

Just be sure to move around alot. If he uses nails from a distance and they catch you, it'll be in his favour.

Ya, I see them try to guard point after my charge cancel pressure. If I try to throw on wake up and they're not doing their guard point and tech the throw we're back on neutral so I'd rather catch em with the gatling if I can since at the very least if they're blocking I'll keep my pressure going.

Nails and his mobility pose a huge hindrance on our ability to get charges and I've come to basically play him in a way where I stay on him as much as I can but you know how long it takes to kill people when we don't have charges so it's quite the hassle.

[pktazn]

How's 2C AA against him? I noticed that some Bangs I go against really jump a lot (usually for nails) so I try to catch them with that. The only problem is when they catch on to what I'm doing and start double air dashing + shenanigans.

[Kiba]

If they jump for nails I usually don't try to AA because they will just get CH. I don't play alot of Bangs that like to jump in on me, and the only time I find myself trying to AA them is when they've used a single nail and I've managed to avoid it.

If they like to hover in the air alot, I'd just air grab them instead really. The double air dashing makes their jump in attempts pretty unpredictable that it may be risky to use 2C.

[Errol]

My general reaction to D nails, if they are thrown out in neutral, is to high jump back.. Sometimes you just slip through the gap between them, but even blocking I'd rather block them in the air probably.

[BatousaiJ]

I've been refining methods of stuffing Bang's drive options on wake up without giving up pressure and I've changed it to

2B > 2C

Simple enough but it stuffs quick get up, 2D, 6D and when they guard point the first hit with 6D and teleport to the other side, they'll get CH in the face with 2C which has some of the longest untechable time on CH in the game on the ground for a normal allowing you do start a combo from there.

You can also use a throw to stuff 2D/6D option but quick getup magical 5A will get you and if they anticipate it and tech, then you're back on neutral and have to start again from there. If they block 2B > 2C, you can JC and continue pressure easily.

I tested this out against a few bangs with great success and recommend you try it. Just make sure you meaty the 2B on netural tech or go early when you see the beginning frames of quick get up to land your 2B > 2CC > IAD combo for free.

[Errol]

they'll get CH in the face with 2C which has some of the longest untechable time on CH in the game on the ground for a normal allowing you do start a combo from there.

quick note, This is a great time to do a 3cc RC if you have heat and no charges.