[CSE] Iron Tager vs Jin: Now with less frost

[A.X.I.S.]

He's nerfed but it doesn't make it easy.

Objective:

Get close and defeat him safely and swiftly, never let him gain momentum, and do not get cornered.

Reason:

Jin is very versatile an as such is good in all ranges, trouble once he gets rolling, and just down right sinister once he locks you in the corner so your goal is simple, catch a slip of judgement on any small exploit you can find and dismantle him from there.

Far range:

Jin can throw ice blades at you from this range, some you can duck, others you can voltech charge through, remember to not just do voltech it or else he times it to counter hit you from your recovery other wise get into medium range and fight your way into close range.

Spark bolt makes throwing those ice blades a risky game too.

Medium range:

So not only does he have ice blades but now you have to get around his j.C and 2D both are managable. The question is when and where?

2D can be sledged if you can react to it, j.C can be IB'd or 2D under, 2D is risky as Jin can space himself in a way to make it whiff, then you eat a crouching confirm.

Do not eat those.

Close range:

My favorite range when it comes to hitting Jin if you are forced to block and he jump cancels then magnetized collider and 2C works well.

magnetized collider for when he jumps back and 2C for cross ups.

Be sure to learn which holes to exploit so you can make him scared to pressure for too long or too recklessly.

Strings and pokes:

5B>5C>jump cancel

5B>2B>5B>jump cancel

5B>2B>5B>6B

5B>6D

5B>5C>2C>3C

3C>Ex ice blade

5C>6C>dash cancel

Special moves he likes to use:

Dragon punches:

His A dragon punch is fast and is not invincible, he usually throws it out if you are jumping in on him.

B dragon punch is slower than A dragon punch but it is invincible, usually does it in places where A dragon punch will not work...mostly combo filler though.

C dragon punch is invulnerable on frame 1 is very slow, you can beat it with 4A (5A but holding back so he blocks soon as it recovers.)

D dragon punch is the one he uses the most and it has a follow up hit after the first hit, cost him 25 heat but it is really fast and it's frame 1 invulnerable, you can actually beat it in several ways:

Jump over it, block it then punish the gap, and 360A through it.

All of these works but not without its risk, be warned that his D DP's second hit can be charged to be unblockable.

Ice blades/air ice blades: annoying ice fireballs meant to nail free hits on you.

EX Ice blades: big, hits 3 times, breaks a primer, and quite a bit of frame advantage if you see the start up (not too fast) sledge it.

Note: B sledge it do not A sledge it.

Air Ex ice blades: used mostly as a fake cross up but on occasion is used to punish you for using 2C predictably.

Basic stuff to go with.

Have fun.

I may edit this post as this is quite a bit of stuff to put in and absorb.

[Tae Seong Kim]

One of Tager's best tool to use in this match up is his HIGH FIVE (2A). Jin's air to ground against Tager is useless because of this. Tager always had this in previous games, but the Jin nerfs make it easier!

You can also still punish Jin's 5C, 6C, C DP combo with a burst, then 720.

[ahdes]

He's nerfed but it doesn't make it easy.

Objective:

Get close and defeat him safely and swiftly, never let him gain momentum, and do not get cornered.

Reason:

Jin is very versatile an as such is good in all ranges, trouble once he gets rolling, and just down right sinister once he locks you in the corner so your goal is simple, catch a slip of judgement on any small exploit you can find and dismantle him from there.

Far range:

Jin can throw ice blades at you from this range, some you can duck, others you can voltech charge through, remember to not just do voltech it or else he times it to counter hit you from your recovery other wise get into medium range and fight your way into close range.

Spark bolt makes throwing those ice blades a risky game too.

Medium range:

So not only does he have ice blades but now you have to get around his j.C and 2D both are managable. The question is when and where?

2D can be sledged if you can react to it, j.C can be IB'd or 2D under, 2D is risky as Jin can space himself in a way to make it whiff, then you eat a crouching confirm.

Do not eat those.

Close range:

My favorite range when it comes to hitting Jin if you are forced to block and he jump cancels then magnetized collider and 2C works well.

magnetized collider for when he jumps back and 2C for cross ups.

Be sure to learn which holes to exploit so you can make him scared to pressure for too long or too recklessly.

Strings and pokes:

5B>5C>jump cancel

5B>2B>5B>jump cancel

5B>2B>5B>6B

5B>6D

5B>5C>2C>3C

3C>Ex ice blade

5C>6C>dash cancel

Special moves he likes to use:

Dragon punches:

His A dragon punch is fast and is not invincible, he usually throws it out if you are jumping in on him.

B dragon punch is slower than A dragon punch but it is invincible, usually does it in places where A dragon punch will not work...mostly combo filler though.

C dragon punch is invulnerable on frame 1 is very slow, you can beat it with 4A (5A but holding back so he blocks soon as it recovers.)

D dragon punch is the one he uses the most and it has a follow up hit after the first hit, cost him 25 heat but it is really fast and it's frame 1 invulnerable, you can actually beat it in several ways:

Jump over it, block it then punish the gap, and 360A through it.

All of these works but not without its risk, be warned that his D DP's second hit can be charged to be unblockable.

Ice blades/air ice blades: annoying ice fireballs meant to nail free hits on you.

EX Ice blades: big, hits 3 times, breaks a primer, and quite a bit of frame advantage if you see the start up (not too fast) sledge it.

Note: B sledge it do not A sledge it.

Air Ex ice blades: used mostly as a fake cross up but on occasion is used to punish you for using 2C predictably.

Basic stuff to go with.

Have fun.

I may edit this post as this is quite a bit of stuff to put in and absorb.

Hi im playing bbcs:ex. im having trouble with the ice car follow up. is back roll forward roll safer option than neutral?

[A.X.I.S.]

I haven't played in a while but iirc rolls aren't safer since Jin can track 2B your roll.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I haven't played in a while but iirc rolls aren't safer since Jin can track 2B your roll.

Every. Fucking. Time.

Only special things bout this MU I'd note is that a meaty 5A will either beat Jin's A/B DPs, or let you recover in time to block his C/D versions.

Jin 6B can be reversed with almost anything because it's so slow. Jin might spam it because he thinks it makes him immune to 360A. It certainly does not, just time the 360A right and hold it until he lands in it. 6B only has 2 active frames.

Also really important: Jin's 5B (2) pulls you in so he can cross you up even when your back is against the wall after using it.

[mAc Chaos]

I love Jin. Especially against Tager.

Rolling against Jin is a bad idea.

[Moy_X7]

Actually, you can roll backwards for free so long as you don't take a year to do it after getting knocked down. Neither 2A or 2B will be able to hit you while rolling backwards if you do it quick enough. However, if you get too predictable with your back rolls, he can just 66 5C you out of it for big damage.

[Jackie Chandler]

Why wouldn't knowledgeable Jins just tech trap with 5C every time then? It catches both forward AND back rolls regardless of where the Ice Car ends, and even if you Neutral tech, he'll still be back to neutral before his opponent can do anything. The only exception is if you Emergency Roll, and even then, the Jin will have plenty of time to recognize the fact that he shouldn't 5C once he lands.

That said, I think your best option against Jin's Ice Car is to Emergency Roll every time. He doesn't have hardly any time to set up any oki or gimmicks out of it, and if you Forward/Back/Neutral Tech, he can 5C for free to punish the former two without any risk of being punished by the latter whatsoever.

[Moy_X7]

Well, most of the Tagers I play just wanna do emergency tech > 360A or quick rise 2C, so I just 5A them as "oki" haha. You're right though, 5C should be the go-to oki option as long as the Jin player in question reacts to the opponent failing to emergency tech immediately after 214B/C. If Jin does 5C when Tager does an emergency tech, he will lose his situational advantage, so reacting to the opponent failing to emergency tech is imperative.

As you said, Tagers should just emergency tech. There's nothing Jin can do to threaten Tager on wake-up, just don't do wake-up backdash or wake-up 360A as 5A > 5B will beat both of those for free.

[ahdes]

Well, most of the Tagers I play just wanna do emergency tech > 360A or quick rise 2C, so I just 5A them as "oki" haha. You're right though, 5C should be the go-to oki option as long as the Jin player in question reacts to the opponent failing to emergency tech immediately after 214B/C. If Jin does 5C when Tager does an emergency tech, he will lose his situational advantage, so reacting to the opponent failing to emergency tech is imperative.

As you said, Tagers should just emergency tech. There's nothing Jin can do to threaten Tager on wake-up, just don't do wake-up backdash or wake-up 360A as 5A > 5B will beat both of those for free.

teching after ice car followup puts you into high low wake up guessing game?