KayEff Report post Posted February 1, 2012 have fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BatousaiJ Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted February 1, 2012 It's like I'm reading the framedata for a CS1 character Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Nerf Analysis incoming. :P Normals: 5A: +Damage: 150-->300 +Heat: 54-->108 5B: -Damage: 560-->520 -Heat: 201-->187 -P1: 90-->85 -Startup: 9-->10 *Active: 3-->5 -Recovery: 13-->17 -Advantage: +1-->-5 -CounterHit: 19-->24 -Start of Cancel Window: 14-->17 5BB: No Changes 5C: -Damage: 700-->640 -Heat: 252-->230 -P1: 100->90 -P2: 92-->89 -Level: 4-->3 +Startup: 13-->8 -Advantage: -7-->-9 (Effect of the level change) +Counterhit: 32-->27 +Start of Cancel Window: 16-->11 5CC: -Damage: 700-->620 -Heat: 252-->223 2A: +Damage: 150-->300 +Heat: 54-->108 -P1: 100-->80 -P2: 84-->82 -Level: 1-->0 -Startup: 6-->7 -Frame Advantage: +2-->0 -Untech: 14-->12 2B: -Damage: 560-->400 -Heat: 201-->144 2BB: No Changes 2C: -Damage: 700-->660 -Heat: 252-->237 -Stagger time on ground CH: 51-->48 2CC: No Changes 6A: -Level: 4-->3 -Frame Advantage: -7-->-9 (Level change in action) +Now Fatal Counters 6B: No Changes 6BB: No Changes 6C: +Damage: 220*6-->250*6 +Heat: 79*6-->90*6 -No Longer Fatal Counters 6CC: No Changes 3C: -P1: 90-->80 +P2: 88-->92 +Recovery: 24-->22 +Frame Advantage: -15-->-13 +Now Fatal Counters(? This isn't in the translation) 3CC: +P1: 90-->100 +Bonus Proration: Now 120% j.A: +Damage: 180-->300 +Heat: 64-->108 j.B: No Changes j.BB: No Changes j.C: No Changes j.CC: No Changes Ground Throws: +Damage: 1000->1300 +Heat: 360-->468 Air Throw: No changes Counter Assault: +Untech Time: 20-->34 Drives: 5D: -Max Charge time: 74-->50 -Charge Rate: 700/200/100-->295 +Special Charge Rates on Charge Cancel: 700/50/295 (Initially I assumed the 50 was supposed to be 500, but they do the same weird thing with 2D, so maybe not) 2D: -Max Charge Time: Infinite-->96 frames -"Startup" time before charge: 4 frames-->8 frames *Charge Rate: 100/250/500-->190/670 +Special Charge Rates on Charge Cancel: 560/60/670 j.D: -Cannot jump for 2 frames after animation ends(?) +Charge Rate: 250/220-->275/220 I'll do specials later. So far, my personal analysis is that this is SUPER HALFASSED work. The almost total lack of bothering to change anything about the followup moves to me speaks of a designer who didn't have the faintest idea what to do with this character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pktazn Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Much obliged Kayeff. Thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Much obliged Kayeff. Thank you This from me too. Sorry, didn't mean to appear ungrateful - definitely not your fault you are the bearer of bad news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Can anyone tell me when you can first CC a move? Is it recovery or active frames? Frame advantage off CC is important as shit but, of course, it's unlisted. EDIT: If you've ever played Melty, think of it like CC = whiff 5a Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 1, 2012 Can anyone tell me when you can first CC a move? Is it recovery or active frames? Frame advantage off CC is important as shit but, of course, it's unlisted. EDIT: If you've ever played Melty, think of it like CC = whiff 5a I have every reason to believe that Charge Cancels work like every other type of cancel in the game, which is to say that you can cancel on the first frame after the move makes contact. As a result, the charge cancel frame advantage can be determined easily enough based on the attack level (unless the move has custom block stun data). It doesn't matter if you use 5D or 2D, since both have an 18 frame minimum duration. That gives me the following frame "advantage" values on charge cancel: 5A: -9 5B: -2 5BB: -2 5C: -2 5CC: 0 2A: -9 2B: -5 2BB: -5 So in a nutshell, charge cancel frame advantage is exactly the same as it is in CS2 (except for 5C, which is worse because 5C's attack level went down), but A) Our normals are worse, overall, so charge cancelling looks better by comparison and B) We get a bit more charge for it thanks to the special charge cancel charge rate values. So if you were looking for charge cancels to make your offense less dangerous... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BatousaiJ Report post Posted February 1, 2012 So if you were looking for charge cancels to make your offense less dangerous... What? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted February 1, 2012 What? I think he meant dangerous as in risky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 1, 2012 I think he meant dangerous as in risky Yes, sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shtkn Report post Posted February 1, 2012 frame data is now on the wiki http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(BBCSE) please fix any incorrect values (such as the entire gatling table which was just copied from CS2) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Thank you. Sure thing. Edit: Updated Gatling Table. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pktazn Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Are you sure about those changes Kiba? The revolver action table I have from Kurushii's scans said that 5B can't go to 6A anymore for example. Not to say it can't be wrong though~ Unless you're testing it out in the game and then changing it (I wish I could do that myself, it would make things 100x easier than me trying to read this table) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted February 2, 2012 I'm positive about the changes, but that's made me sceptical now, lol. 5B does indeed still go to 6A. What else did the scans say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pktazn Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Ffffffffff this is exactly the reason why this is one of those things I'd rather test out in-game lol. The only noticeable ones I saw besides the 5B change was seeing that 5C can now go into 6A and 2B can now go into 3C. It doesn't list the follow-ups and the others are essentially the same. The only things I have to really look up though are whether it's jump cancellable, special cancellable etc. Here's the scan. http://i.imgur.com/W2tBp.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Ahhhh. Yea unfortunately it's wrong in that 5B does not gatling into 6A, and that 5C does. It is correct that 2B gatlings into 3C though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted February 2, 2012 5C>6A? What the shit? Is that for real? EDIT: I checked. It's not for real, lol. They must've typo'd 5B>6A as 5C>6A. That would've been so good, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Ahhhh. Yea unfortunately it's wrong in that 5B does not gatling into 6A, and that 5C does. It is correct that 2B gatlings into 3C though. More important (and therefore unlikely): Does 2BB gatling to 3C? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pktazn Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Honestly I'm not surprised the scan is wrong considering the erroneous amount of errors that was in the mook in the first place. When I was going through it I was like, "Really? That changed?" Thanks guys~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Report post Posted February 2, 2012 ....erroneous amount of errors... Yeah. Wait what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted February 2, 2012 No prob PK. More important (and therefore unlikely): Does 2BB gatling to 3C? Nope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Nope. Damnit. :P Though I guess it doesn't matter since an opponent has no reason to block high after 2BB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pktazn Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Yeah. Wait what? Damn my phone's autocorrect. That's what I get for posting around 7 am est. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BatousaiJ Report post Posted February 2, 2012 Ffffffffff this is exactly the reason why this is one of those things I'd rather test out in-game lol. The only noticeable ones I saw besides the 5B change was seeing that 5C can now go into 6A and 2B can now go into 3C. It doesn't list the follow-ups and the others are essentially the same. The only things I have to really look up though are whether it's jump cancellable, special cancellable etc. Here's the scan. http://i.imgur.com/W2tBp.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
