[CSE] Noel vs. Ragna

[LuminAbyss]

Match Up Ranking: To Be Discussed.

Recommended Playstyle: To Be Discussed.

Your Best Tools:

-5B: When timed correctly, you can beat out many of Ragna's pokes, because while they do have good range, they also stretch out his hurtbox a good amount before completely starting up.

-2D: This will hop over most of his neutral and pressure tools, and will allow you to land at least 3k midscreen. Be weary of his 6A, 6C and 5D, as they all beat this drive clean, as well as mistiming against his 5B, which can also beat it if not timed correctly.

-4D: Works as a great anti-air for poorly timed jump ins, as well as a good way to beat out a good amount of his neutral tools. Loses to lows, however, including his 2B, 6C, 3C and 2D. Also loses to 5D and Deadspike simply because of the absurd amount of active frames on both of those moves.

General Strategy: To Be Discussed.

Has A DP?: Yes, and one of the best in the game. Inferno Divider is invincible from frame 1 until frame 18, and starts up in 7 frames (the typical speed of a 2A). Extremely unsafe on block.

Has A DP With Heat?: Both of his distortions, Carnage Scissors and Blood Kain, have frame 1 invul (Carnage Scissors has frame 1-6 fully invul, and Blood Kain has invul throughout the entire activation). However, neither are the best of reversals and are extremely situational and risky to use. The real danger comes from the fact that he can use that 50 heat to rapid cancel Inferno Divider, and transform his reversal into a damaging combo, or make himself safe on block.

Things To Look Out For: The following moves will beat either 2D or 4D (5D and 6D are really not recommended to use in most cases)

6A: 2D

6C: All drives

5D: All drives

2B: 4D

3C: 4D

Deadspike All drives (2D, if timed properly and point blank, can hop over it)

[Setsuna]

Ragna's pokes are like the touch of death for me, why are good ways to approach him with confidence because right now its like fear takes me over when playing against him.

[LunaKage]

Ragna's pokes are like the touch of death for me, why are good ways to approach him with confidence because right now its like fear takes me over when playing against him.

Our 5B is still actually really good in the matchup. Obviously if times wrong it can be beaten, but I get a whole shit ton of CHs when I throw out a well placed 5B.

[Yggjrasil]

imo, this matchup seems to be even. If Ragna seems adamant about using 5D as pressure to keep from you using 2D, then 4D will stuff it, same with his jump-ins and Gauntlet Hades. Ragna will try to space you out mostly with 5B, 5C and j.C. If he's smart, he'll refrain from doing risky pressure that can be easily stuffed by drive. watch for staggers, his 2A is even on block so that will be their go to poke for pressure. (2A > 2B/2C) (2A > 6D) (2A > 5D) (2A > 2B > 6B) (2C > 6B) (2A tick grab setup)

[LunaKage]

Also noting in this matchup, the old Fatal frame trap that Ragna used to do: 2A > 2C, loses to 2D now, for free.

[cookiehours]

I sense sheer misery learning this matchup once I get Noel down. .___.

[LunaKage]

What are you having problems with Cookie?

[KayEff]

just mash D when in ragna's blockstrings

he can't do shit about it

[LunaKage]

Sure he can.

6A Beats 2D.

2C Beats 4D.

To name a couple at least.

Dealing with Noel drive is a pain in the ass, but it can be done. Alternatively, you can play the lame game and not rushdown, throw Ragna's hitboxes around and whatnot at neutral.

[Yggjrasil]

For Ragna, playing lame and trying to bait out unsafe drives from Noel is the best way to go. If Ragna is overly aggressive with his pressure or play-style, then it's a free win for Noel. I've seen matches where really good JP Ragnas get destroyed just because they were greedy...It's really sad when that happens.

[LuminAbyss]

just mash D when in ragna's blockstrings

he can't do shit about it

6A and 6C beat 2D

any of his lows and 2C beat 4D

His everything beats 5D and 6D

His 5D shuts down all drives thanks to it's gigantic hitbox.

[KayEff]

6A, 6C, 5D, 6D, and inferno divider all beat her drives. okay, i get that.

but those are all moves that are either too slow for practical use or are terrible in pressure. i mean like who the fuck uses 6A, 6C, and 5D in pressure? i'll give 20 bucks to anyone who can beat me just by using those moves. seriously. i will fucking do it.

[LunaKage]

6A, 6C, 5D, 6D, and inferno divider all beat her drives. okay, i get that.

but those are all moves that are either too slow for practical use or are terrible in pressure. i mean like who the fuck uses 6A, 6C, and 5D in pressure? i'll give 20 bucks to anyone who can beat me just by using those moves. seriously. i will fucking do it.

You play Ragna, why would you use those moves against Ragna?

This is THE NOEL MATCHUP. Use those moves to bait drives, if you don't want to play the matchup, then keep doing what you're doing.

[MashThat5A]

The thing is, if you use any of those moves in pressure (especially 5D), and she doesn't do a drive, you're kind of fucked. It's not worth the risk.

[LuminAbyss]

6A can be jump cancelled, or be used for cross-up ID

6C can be dash cancelled (-7, so be careful with that), jump cancelled, or jump cancel cancelled into Deadspike.

5D can be dash cancelled for absolute safety (you're -2 on dash cancelling the second hit. More than safe enough to block and get away).

Everything else is a normal pressure tool.

There really is no excuse.

[KayEff]

5D can be dash cancelled for absolute safety (you're -2 on dash cancelling the second hit. More than safe enough to block and get away)

on IB, it becomes -5.

noel's 5A's startup is 5 frames.

you hear that noel players? if you block a ragna's 5D, be sure to IB the second hit because that leads into a guaranteed punish!

[LuminAbyss]

Or he can cancel into Deadspike. On instantblock that's -GASP- 0!

Safety.

You have options, use them.

I'm not saying those are good pressure tools, but they are save. And necessary in this match-up. You're not always gonna get to play how you want to play in every match up. Rushdown is not how you win this match.

Spacing, keep-away, and baiting drive using these moves is.

[MashThat5A]

And you can IB Barrier the first hit of 5D to possibly make the second hit whiff. 6A into crossup DP sucks. 6C on block pretty much forces you to go back to neutral unless you want to do something dumb.

[LuminAbyss]

And you can IB Barrier the first hit to possibly make the second hit whiff.

Then that becomes situational. In that case, yeah the Ragna would get punished, if it did whiff.

But if it doesn't? He's safe.

[MashThat5A]

Then that becomes situational. In that case, yeah the Ragna would get punished, if it did whiff.

But if it doesn't? He's safe.

So IB barrier the first, and then IB the second. punish

[LuminAbyss]

Yup.

Why don't you do the same with Noel's drives? IB and punish.

Besides, you don't ALWAYS go for 5D. Mix it up. The point is these moves do have their uses in pressure against Noel.

[A.X.I.S.]

So guys you do 5D and it got IB'd

If they barrier block it good deadspike they can't move anyway.

Edit: If they IB barrier the 5D Noel truly can't do too much at that point.

5D(1)>deadspike is hella good.

[cookiehours]

What are you having problems with Cookie?

There's something about Ragna that intimidates me. I'm like a deer caught in headlights sometimes. Still training with Noel and got Litherain helping me but I can't seem to break 4k or more.

So mash D in Ragna's blockstrings? Okay, gotcha...

[LuminAbyss]

So mash D in Ragna's blockstrings? Okay, gotcha...

No, dont'. At least not mindlessly.

Watch the Ragna and what his blockstrings, pressure patterns, and spacing tendencies seem to be. Then react with the appropriate drive for the situation. For example, if he seems to love throwing out dash 5B or using 2A on your wake up, 2D will high profile both of these. If he tries a reckless jump in, 4D will kill it completely. If he tries to do some fancy, risky stuff, react with which ever drive will work best in that situation, keeping in mind what moves beat which drives.

ONCE you've gotten them scared of your drive, you can start pressuring them and frame trapping them your own way. And if they try to get out of that (without using DP), watch their tendencies and drive through them.

I'm sure Luna can elaborate more, but that's just somethings to keep in mind. The point is that you want to make them scared of drive, so you can start having an easier time getting in.

[cookiehours]

No, dont'. At least not mindlessly.

Watch the Ragna and what his blockstrings, pressure patterns, and spacing tendencies seem to be. Then react with the appropriate drive for the situation. For example, if he seems to love throwing out dash 5B or using 2A on your wake up, 2D will high profile both of these. If he tries a reckless jump in, 4D will kill it completely. If he tries to do some fancy, risky stuff, react with which ever drive will work best in that situation, keeping in mind what moves beat which drives.

ONCE you've gotten them scared of your drive, you can start pressuring them and frame trapping them your own way. And if they try to get out of that (without using DP), watch their tendencies and drive through them.

I'm sure Luna can elaborate more, but that's just somethings to keep in mind. The point is that you want to make them scared of drive, so you can start having an easier time getting in.

Oh, okay. I guess Litherain will train me on that.