[CSE] Noel vs. Bang

[Chaoschao222]

Matchup Ranking: To be discussed.

Recommended Playstyle: To be discussed.

General Strategy: To be discussed.

Your Best Tools (For This Matchup): To be discussed.

Has A DP?: No; but Bang's D moves, while not officially DPs, work as pseudo-reversals, but not very good ones.

Has A DP With Heat?:

Ashura (big boom explosion), fairly baitable, and Daifunka (SUPER BANGU charge), easy to punish on block.

Things To Look Out For: To be discussed.

[DC]

No information on this matchup at all? I have a pretty decent local Bang player. Noel's booty anti-airs makes matchups against all airborne characters (Bang, Tao, Valk) pretty hard imo. Bang having two airdashes doesn't make it any easier. Whiffing 6A (why are you using this at all...) or 4D is super dangerous since Bang gets such easy pickups. Be wary of mashing AA if you see him dashing towards you, good Bang players will not get AA'd by Noel, of all characters.

[Alpha152]

Comparing Bang's air approach to Tao and Valk isn't accurate because unlike them, his resources are limited. My main match-up experience with Bang is against Turntablist who has a great offense but tends to overuse his nails. Without them, Bang becomes much less of a threat. Countering his air game is only a problem when he uses nails to cover his approach. If Bang dashes or jumps in without nails 6A and 4D are pretty effective tools. Of course his two air dashes make it harder to time an AA, but they are still good.

Now his neutral game and offense is where he gives Noel problems. His 5A/B are both great pokes and his nails let him start pressure for free(at least up to 4 times). Using D during his pressure is risky but can sometimes gain good results. Most of his normals have foot attribute so 4D will get blown up by a lot of his blockstrings. It becomes even harder when he uses TK D nails to extend his pressure because it's frame tight to any of Noel's normals if done correctly and even if he happens to TK from a farther distance, 2D and 4D get beaten out by its foot and projectile attributes. One place where 2D does work is when Bang tries to re-enter for pressure and starts with a 2A. However, if he decides to use 5A/B then 2D will get beaten, but then 4D will beat his 5A options. It really becomes a guessing game of which move he will use to start pressure and which move you use to counter it. I think it's good to attempt the guessing game when he has nails because that's where the fear of his rush down comes from but it's definitely better to block when his resources dwindle.

My last note is about his blockstrings without nails. A lot of Bangs like to end pressure with 6A since it's +1 on block. If it's done at max distance it can be hard to out-poke him since his 5A/B have good range even when IB'd, but if he uses it at a close distance then Noel can start her pressure or beat out whatever he throws out since he's at -2 and his fastest normal is 6f. One of his most common frame-traps is 6D/2C > 623B. This is mostly punishable only on IB because it leaves him at -10. Since the push back from his blockstring into 623B pushes you too far to optimally punish, the only thing you can do is 665A. Unfortunately Noel does not get a decent combo from a non CH 5B like other characters do. However, if you are in the corner with 50 meter and he decides to frame-trap with 623B, an easier punish is to 5B > Thor into a combo that nets you 4k, gets you out of the corner, and puts Bang in the corner. The good thing about IB'ing 623B is that you can punish Bang any time he tries to frame-trap with 623B, the bad part is that it's very frame tight but I'm pretty sure a max distance 623B can still be punished. If in fact it can't be punished with 5A at max distance or you decide not to 665A at a closer range, you can at least 5B > 5C > JC to start pressure.

[TransientFaith]

if he decides to use 5A/B then 2D will get beaten, but then 4D will beat his 5A options.

Not entirely true. If Bang does 5A->2A and you react to 4D, you will be beaten almost every time.

4D is 1-14F invul, 25F startup

5A is 6F startup, 3F active (whiffs) 9F recovery (total 18F) then 8F startup on 2A (26F total) means unless you read his 5A and press 4D before or on 1F you will beat it or trade respectively. Reacting to 5A on frame 1 is superhuman so...yeah

tldr;

If Bang does 5A->2A, unless you anticipate the 5A and hit before he hits 5A, he will beat BOTH 4D AND/OR 2D

Fun matchup

[Alpha152]

Good point Transient, Bang manages to blow up 4D even after a whiffed move. Not to say that every Bang will always 5A > 2A for pressure but if 4D catches him enough times he can easily adjust to Drive proof blockstrings.

[LunaKage]

Honestly most characters can 5A > 2A to shut down 4D, and depending on the character it will beat 2D as well, like Ragna and of course Bang. Hell even Noel can shut down 2D/4D with 5A > 2A.

[WSUNLIMITED]

ya wanna counter bangs air game, rush in to meet him in air and use j.d then when you touch the ground, D 6b and then whatever you want from there. after awhile he will see he coming, then throw!