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TrueGunnerShadow

[CSE] Noel vs. Tager

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Match Up Ranking: To Be Discussed

Recommended Playstyle: To Be Discussed

Your Best Tools: To Be Discussed

General Strategy: To Be Discussed

Has A DP?: No, but his 360A has invul frames. Attempt to get close and/or dash in an attack from the ground, Tager will grab you.

Has A DP With Heat?: No, but his 720C is just like his 360A. Also Tager's MTW has guard point.

Things To Look Out For: To Be Discussed

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Just fiddled around with this a little. The match up seems about the same as the last game, except Tager does more damage.

Just a couple of things to note:

- The Hammer off his Voltic Charge guard point eats projectiles just like his Sledge Hammer. It has great P1, which on CH can lead into a combo that does more damage and gives more meter than a reversal A Buster would.

- On a good note, Tager can't do A/B Buster -> 3C -> MTW on Noel because of her DFC. He has to do a non burst safe A/B Buster -> 3C -> Atomic Collider -> Gadget Finger (whiff) -> MTW. That is only if Noel is magnetized. Otherwise, he can only do Gadget Finger after the 3C. Keep in mind that this only affects the characters after A/B Buster due to hitbox and proration, and not the 3C itself. He can still do something like 5A -> 5B -> 5C -> 6A -> 3C -> MTW. So burst away! :D

Couple of things.

1) 360A has invuln frames. Somewhat like a DP Effect???

It's best to not get close to Tager and dash in an attack on him.

You'll regret it.

2) 720C is the same like 360A but it consumes heat and does big damage. You can beat this with a Jump in attack and 2D.

3) 5B is good poke for Tager. It has good distance.

5B > 3C works on 5B Counter Hit.

5B is Jump Cancelable on block.

That's what I got so far. I'll write more if anything comes up.

You got some good stuff TSK.

Here's the two posts from the previous thread to work off of.

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We must be very careful with the new properties of his sledge, personally, Im having trouble with it, dont know how to do against it. It has a now a very good distance if he charge it :_(

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Thx for the transfer Lunakage. And sorry for the posting it before you guys assigned the boards. :3

For Tagers B Sledge I would just wait for him to come to you then IB it and get the frame advantage. You can 5A him and all of his normals will lose to it. Just be wary, he can still mash out an A Buster or 720. If you want a guaranteed way to turn the tide, just Fenrir or 5D him on reaction to the B Sledge.

Also, Tager is now unable to link a combo off B sledge anymore. He can only combo off it when it is a CH.

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Thx for the transfer Lunakage. And sorry for the posting it before you guys assigned the boards. :3

For Tagers B Sledge I would just wait for him to come to you then IB it and get the frame advantage. You can 5A him and all of his normals will lose to it. Just be wary, he can still mash out an A Buster or 720. If you want a guaranteed way to turn the tide, just Fenrir or 5D him on reaction to the B Sledge.

Also, Tager is now unable to link a combo off B sledge anymore. He can only combo off it when it is a CH.

No problem man, I'm just glad you were excited enough to post stuff.

In regards to B sledge, 5B still kills it, if he's charging it from full screen away, you should have enough time to close the gap and 5B before he can release the button.

Due to Tager getting mad stacks of heat now, 9/10 times he'll be able to make all of his stuff safe for more pressure, so not giving him a chance to put you in that spot is all the more important.

Also a note on the overall matchup: Our purple grab oki works extremely well, it ONLY works on Tager, but it works very well. Purple grab oki makes it so that Tager doesn't get to choose his tech options after a combo, and if he techs the grab he's in the air without a jump or reversal option, it's a veryy effective setup, I'll explain it a little more later, but I already have a bunch of stuff about it that can really turn the tide in Noel's favor.

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Also a note on the overall matchup: Our purple grab oki works extremely well, it ONLY works on Tager, but it works very well. Purple grab oki makes it so that Tager doesn't get to choose his tech options after a combo, and if he techs the grab he's in the air without a jump or reversal option, it's a veryy effective setup, I'll explain it a little more later, but I already have a bunch of stuff about it that can really turn the tide in Noel's favor.

Really useful stuff, Im gonna test it, seems legit :_)

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please explain this purple throw oki in more detail. I am having a lot of trouble vs. Tager now. With all our nerfs and his buffs it just seems like Noel just can't deal with him any more. The match up is clearly in his favor, but than again it has always been in his favor since CT.

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lunas attitude about tager is completely different than usual

figures it would be when tager is better than ever

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Alright so the purple grab oki works both in the corner and midscreen, though obviously for midscreen you'd need to cut your combo shorter to do the airgrab, so use it midscreen at your own discretion.

Basically to make sure it works you need to hit a high 6C, midscreen this can be done after 22C, or 236A, midscreen you wanna do: Combo > Bloom Trigger(Both Hits) > 6C

So after the purple grab you have a few options:

If they DON'T Break the Grab:

1. Your combo just did a free extra 1.3k

2. You can land and attempt a crossunder with 2B(Which will put them back in the corner, if they are in the corner)

3. You can HIT them with 2B, and if they air-tech back, you can IAD forward and Air grab them, thus leading them back to the corner.

If they DO Break the Grab:

1. Airdash forward while Tager is still in the air and use j.A(Low Risk, Low Reward) can be beaten if Tager does j.A.

2. Use Thor while Tager is still in the air to beat his j.A attempt(Low Risk, High Reward) can be beaten if Tager Blocks.

3. Wait until Tager lands and Airdash forward with j.A, you will just BARELY be above the ground, so it's a good sneaky overhead. Can be beaten if Tager 2Cs(High Risk, High Reward)

4. Wait until both Noel and Tager land, then run in and do 2B for a low, if done well enough Tager wont be able to tell if it was the Airdash j.A or the dash in 2B, creating a form of semi-invisible mixup. Also beats Tager's 2C attempt if he's trying to beat j.A. This however can be beaten by 360/720(High Risk, High Reward)

5. At any point during your Airdash j.A barrage(Even if you didn't do a j.A at all) you can throw out a j.4D to attempt the crossup low. Can be beaten by Tager pushing buttons, or by Tager blocking correctly. (High Risk, High Reward)

6. Wait until Tager and Noel land, then use a quick TK Thor. This does the same thing as the Air thor setup, and can only be beaten by blocking, or sledge, but sledge wont connect. (Low Risk, High Reward)

7. In a similar vein as dash in 2B after landing, instead you can dash in and grab, or dash in 2D for a grab bait. Grab can be beaten by Breaking the grab or with Command grabs, 2D can be beaten by 2C, or it Tager is pushing buttons. (High Risk, High Reward)

8. Wait, just Wait. This will beat out Tager doing MagnaTech Wheel, 2C, and Command grabs. React to which one he did and punish it. If he does nothing, then use your best judgement and either go in for pressure, or get the hell out. (No Risk, High Reward)

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I see. Thanks for pointing that out.

But that does not mean you can still get caught and lose.

Face it we all lose. :(

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720 is frame 1 invuln, 360A is frame 3 invuln, so there's a difference there.

MTW is way better than most DPs :/

Nah, MTW loses to half the DPs, for one. And it takes 50 heat, for two.

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Nah, MTW loses to half the DPs, for one. And it takes 50 heat, for two.

Don't those DP's just clash and then get countered? Disregarding the fact that you can input multiple times. Although I have seen some weird things lately regarding MTW. Ashura(clash) > Daifunka works. I also saw Valkenhayn throw > cancel into ground DD somehow. /off topic

With Tager's new heat gain and damage buff will we need to see less gimmicks? So far I have seen less but it is still early on. His damage seems to easily make up for it.

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Ugh I am not gonna sit here and explain the intricacies of MTW and how they interact with DP's...

...

...

...

...

...

...

I hate you all fine I will tell you, not like I wanted to tell you people this info.

I just don't like your stupid posts okay?

MTW does clash with DP's and it out right beat others.

But usually in a clash you can mash something during the clash.

Lets use Jin's C DP shall we? yes they will clash but then Jin does C DP again, now Tager's MTW autoguard expires and Jin counter hits him with his increased invul.

So yes MTW can beat DP on a clash, We don't have a reason to waste 50 more heat on a clash especially if we know our opponent will mash DP.

Keep in mind they can also block the MTW then CA us when our invul/armor is done.

Seriously MTW is not a DP, And it doesn't really beat DP's either.

It is a reversal/combo extender/combo finisher.

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Thank you Axis, however the DP thing doesn't really apply to Noel.

What about Fenrir? Does MTW Clash with Fenrir? And if so, can we both cancel out of the clash or does it make the super keep going?

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No it doesn't clash with MTW, it just gets cock blocked by auto guard.

That's why I do it on your wake up on occasion, so you can't super.

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Better safe then sorry I suppose.

Though honestly the only reason I ever supered on wakeup before was because I thought it was the only way to beat meaty command grabs.

I know now that you can't grab me out of jump startup, so now I only super on wakeup if I FUCKING FEEL LIKE IT :333333

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I have stuffed Fenrir into MTW before and was able to safely RC out of it. Granted I still normally died directly after it but it's still possible. This really isn't useful information though.

MTW should just have its own thread at this rate. Since there are so many questions regarding it. /magnets

And thank you Axis.

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With Tager's new heat gain, expect to see a lot of MTW > RC mixup. For example, if MTW clashes with Jin's C DP and he does it again, RCing the MTW ensures a free combo or 360 since Jin is hitting air with his DP.

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No, no it doesn't.

It loses hard, 100% of the time.

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Now, my dreams are broken.

What must I use to beat his 2D?

Just hope you're either far enough away to not get hit, or close enough to poke him out of it before it goes active.

Other than that, just block and pray for the best.

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