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gli

[CSE] Rachel vs. Hakumen

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Zoning with hit-and-run is one effective way for Rachel to play this match-up. Okizeme is just so weak compared to Rachel's other match-ups.

Just like in the Tager match-up, random TDs will get you into deep trouble.

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It helps replenish her wind though and that's huge in this match.

I always am just about to corner a Rachel, then she TDs, gets wind back and resumes running away.

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hakumens i play usually save enough megatama to have yukikaze at the ready in case i tempest dahlia. if haku yukikaze's it, then there's nothing rachel can do.

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Oh, I always just 6D'd it. Rachel can't move in time to escape it? Or it somehow counts as a melee attack and freezes her.

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no. never use td in this match. it is so easy to stop/get in for haku, and now theres a void out and/or youre taking 3k and in the corner... just... no.

l agree with running. its surprisingly effective against him. pumpkin is a really good tool here for zoning/wind regen. try going for air pumpkin as much as possible so you can 1/2/3d. you mostly would be doing it to react to his approach or gain some wind. there isnt much he can do, l don think kishuu has foot invul so it should hit. maybe 5/2c will stop it but thats it.

stay FAR away in neutral and zone away. alter lobelia shots w/wind and pumpkin timing so he dosent cut them so easy.

once you get him in pressure you dont have to worry about ja/2b being countered, l would just use those if l can and back off if hes not getting hit. the last thing you want if to be next to him, especially without wind.

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@mac rachel can only move toward the end of td. shes 'vulnerable' otherwise (the barrage of projectiles are just protecting her hitbox). td only has 1 frame of invul in its entire duration, so it dosent help often

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l had the liberty of playing some hakumen last night. it seemed like the moment they were out of hitstun, they was cycling between d/2a/throw/jump/block(rarely). despite the threat of rachel's overhead, after awhile it became apparent that pressure was not the way to go and l really had to just outzone him. his options on defense are so vast; l couldn't keep up with his options at all, they all have different answers and ranges. and forget about frametraps, they may catch 2a but mid attacks vs d/yukikaze = pain.

l def will have to play more haku's in the future but for sure pressure oftentimes should be airtight and cautious vs him.

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Fullscreen neutral. If you can master that you can conquer this match-up.

It gets really ridiculous when you have to bait Kishuu from far away by acting like you will throw out Lobelia. I think you can throw him out of Kishuu if you successfully read it.

The other important aspect is learning where it's safe to burst. I actually haven't figured this out myself. Kishuu is not a safe place to burst.

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maybe when he uses all his meter. saving burst for gb/denying him oki seems good along resetting the match to fullscreen at the cost of 2 primers. how good is haku's guard breaking abilities?

hmm good places to burst during combos... no idea. l think its just something where you have to know whether the foe will bait. l know he has burst safe parts like ... j2a delay j2c.

still havent figured out whether pumpking beats kishuu... im gonna check in a few

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pumpking only hits haku out of kishuu if it's near the ground o.0 1d and 2d would be great if you summon pumpking in the air, it does double duty by plucking haku out of the air and then beating kishuu. dunno how reliable it is though

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I think its safe to burst in these spots: if the haku wants more corner carry and decides to add a hop after the renka > kishuu midscreen combo. And if haku does 6C in his corner combos.

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I wasnt too sure on that one, since it applies to people who never bait bursts, like me :kitty:. but yea, haku can block the burst when he lands from his hop.

But in order to follow up with 2c after a hop, you must do it immediately right? Even following up with a delayed 2b is kind of hard.

So i think in order to block a burst after a hop, haku would have to drop his combo then it would be like any other burst or not burst situations. mac, Correct me if anything is wrong.

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Yeah, but it's the first point when someone can burst, so if you think they're mashing burst, you're going to know to watch out for it.

Plus, they don't HAVE to hop. I never hop, so I have time to see if they're going to burst, and then combo if they don't. But yeah, if they hop they'll have to do 2C right away if they want to keep comboing.

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Plus, they don't HAVE to hop. I never hop, so I have time to see if they're going to burst, and then combo if they don't.

We think alike ;), i only hop if they have no bursts or if i didnt do a good starter

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I notice If a Hakumen Is high on meter You can shoot a naked lobelia and many of them will use Yukiaze. When they do you can use J.8D to get out of the hitbox, making them waste 4 magatama. I've found it to be pretty effective.

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that is such a waste of meter.

just let it hit the barrier and superjump.

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Halp ;_; I am getting wrecked by a REALLY aggressive Hakumen who uses all him Magatama for advancing and I have no idea how to handle it.

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With megatama he only has the command dash kishuu. Kishuu is really good in general. Great recovery, able to use repeatedly, and able to take advantage of his great normals and range control to really give rachel a hard time. It also goes through all of Rachel's projectiles and fast enough to beat George from startup. It also makes him low profile, I think. That, or upper body invul. Whatever, don't try to air to ground kishuu lol.

That's a lot of great points. So what does it lose to? Lows. Particularly hime's 3c. If you are already zoning him to death and running, it shouldn't be too difficult sniffing out a kishuu attempt; in which case, stop what you are doing, and 3c. This is excellent with pumpkin out because it will stop every other approach pre-emptively, barring a counter attempt (you don't have to wind the pumpkin).

Naturally, using it as a scare tactic, once the foe is aware of the counter, can help with your lobelia zoning as well.

Normal approach besides that would be IAD into whatever (lol I'm lying... J2c), dash (I guess?), and super jump/ double jump. He doesn't really have a good time approaching rachel.

If this didn't fully answer your question, I would just ask that you be a little more specific as to what that hakumen is doing.

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It's mainly the command dash, yea. He'll use it like 3, 4 times in a row and I've been having a bitching time dealing with it. I'm glad it loses out to to 3C though, I'll have to try implementing that. Also, having a bit of trouble finding good spots to set things up.

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