Best throw technique for Dizzy?

[bizarro]

Good info, I saw your post last night but had 2 finals today to study for so didn't get a chance to respond. I totally agree with using OS throw when going for a forward throw. This is something I never do and should build the habit of doing more often. For some reason when the OS airthrow was taken out of the game, I stopped doing OS altogether, no idea why. By the way, just putting it out there that Dizzy also has quite a few high/low mixups off a midscreen throw on okizeme, as well as fuzzy guard setups. I recognize that video you linked, I think its from the recent gamechariot posting (quite a few Dizzy matches). True, if Kazuki used c.S it would have gotten a counterhit, but his intent here was a throw, and with that short of a dashing distance the only way to pull out a quick throw is using 4H. Sadly, Ten saw it coming It might be true that he FD braked a tad late, but the main reason why it was slower than it could have been was because Kazuki paused for a split second after landing from j.P I think the issue here is commitment. Kazuki wanted a throw, and so he chose the optimal sequence for the highest chance of a throw succeeding. Had he done OS 6H, it would have been around 15 frames later than a 4H throw command. Or, it could have been the same speed except with a c.S as a result, but his intent was a throw not a c.S All in all, with a short distance separating the characters, I strongly believe that a short dash > FD break > 4H throw is ideal. If you want the throw, do what has a higher chance of it succeeding. I don't believe it's worth delaying your throw ~15 frames (from my estimates, about 1/4 of a second = 15 frames) just to have c.S as a safety net. An analogy could be taken from baseball: you can't steal 2nd base with 1 foot on 1st base. However, if you are about 2P distance away from your opponent, then 4H or 6H will be roughly the same speed. PS - After 2K > c.S, with +1 frame advantage and a tiny distance to cover, a quick dash > FD break > 4H throw is actually quite safe against players who spam 2P, as your FD usually comes out right about when his 2P becomes active. Also, for those of you who like dashing > throw at the opening of a match, if you begin with a wave dash (or FD dash, where you input 66 > 4+P+K > 6), it also acts as a safety against an opening f.S or whatnot. Just make sure to time it depending on the speed of the poke you will face: if it's a fast poke (eg. eddie 2S), make sure to input the first 6 (of 66) before the round begins so that your 2nd 6 starts right when the round starts, and then immediately do 4+P+K > 6, whereas if you're up against a slower poke, adjust likewise. It takes a lot of getting used to, and might not even be worth practicing :3 EDIT: Oh yeah, we've all probably seen/experienced a situation where you throw an opponent while he is in mid-animation of attacking. This is another reason why the quicker the throw, the better

[Saros]

Eh? I'd hardly call Eddie's 2S fast, but in any case, I wouldn't want to even go near Eddie. That bloody Eddie scares me to death, one combo can get Dizzy dizzy wtf I've seen players scared to death of Dizzy too though, and actually sitting there paralyzed with fear. That was when a good Dizzy at this arcade getting in the region of 20-0, and even Sols DID NOT DARE TO POKE DIZZY. It's all in the mind. He was doing all kinds of crazy crap that had huge gaping holes and no one just dared to do anything, it was an odd feeling. I won a mirror match against him (ruining his streak) and he got really angry (at himself) and smashed the machine on the other side and cursed so loud everyone could hear him over the noise of the blaring arcade machines. But he's a nice guy in person, just pissed at himself. I guess he does not have much experience in mirror matches (thankfully I do haha) Conversely I've played Sols with no fear of Dizzy, not even when I TK a S bubble and they come right in my face immediately trying to 2D under it (I really hate Sol's 2D). And on the same type of players tick throws simply don't work, they will mash 2D so any small mistake in your throw range gets you counter 2D (or just plain 2D) which is always a bad thing when you're facing Sol. Again, it's all down to who you're facing. And you got to get a feel for the pace. Throws can always work if the opponent is hesitant. The key is to make them fear your approach and take advantage of it. Anyway like I said, in that particular vid and with Kazuki in that specific situation, he made a good choice. It's exactly what I would have done, when considering that IN does not have anything much on wakeup to defend against Dizzy in the corner. These days I'm so scared of taking any KDs that I really don't dare to try anything without a fish out. Dizzy takes so much damage from anyone T_T I've lost rounds where I was at near 100% and I was SURE the opponent was going to eat my throw as a killing blow muahaha and I got counter 2D into a combo movie SW loop, then one more loop and asdfagas I lose. Argh. Bad memories haha.

[excelence]

err... iirc no one has anything that Dizzy need to fear on her oki ... Pot Buster Might work if you get an uggly mix up and timming thought

[bizarro]

Check out that match of Kazuki vs. Ten, take a look at 0:22, when Dizzy attempts the basic corner okizeme. It seems as if ino's wakeup VCL works against it Don't know too much about the properties of VCL, but it seems similar to testament's forward exe beast in terms of use on wakeup. ALTHOUGH, I think if Dizzy was slightly farther away after the icespike (eg. instead of throw > icespike, he did throw > 2K > f.S > icespike), the VCL would have hit the fish instead of Dizzy. I dunno I'll have to test this, but might be something useful to put in the ino matchup thread.

[bizarro]

BTW, I dunno if it's just me, but I got a chance to play some matches yesterday and I've been trying the forward OS throw a lot (6+S+H) and it seems like c.S comes out more often than a throw. For those of you who also use OS on forward throws, does this happen quite a bit too? Or is it all about practice? (I have a HORI 1, maybe my buttons aren't sensitive enough?)

[excelence]

probably the spacing issue/premature dash stop... how about using display button on training mode to confirm it?

[bizarro]

Naw, it's not the distance, (I have a recording of the match and I see that I'm standing right next to the other dude). It's just that when I press S+H at the same time, I'll usually hit S a split second before H and that makes it not an OS. I was wondering if other people do this sometimes too, or if it's just a matter of practice, or matter of button sensitivity.

[Saros]

Naw, it's not the distance, (I have a recording of the match and I see that I'm standing right next to the other dude).

It's just that when I press S+H at the same time, I'll usually hit S a split second before H and that makes it not an OS. I was wondering if other people do this sometimes too, or if it's just a matter of practice, or matter of button sensitivity.

I know what you mean. I think it's down to adapting to it. I use my ring finger for H, and middle for S. The thing is, my middle finger is quite a bit longer than my ring, so I tend to hit S earlier than H.

However, I've sort of adapted to it, my curling my middle finger sideways a bit. It's hard to explain, but like I said, I'm sure you can adapt to it.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a small allowance. You don't exactly have to hit them in perfect unison. I can tell from the feeling in my fingertips that I rarely hit them close together, and it still seems to work. So give it a go.

[stinkymonz]

Check out that match of Kazuki vs. Ten, take a look at 0:22, when Dizzy attempts the basic corner okizeme. It seems as if ino's wakeup VCL works against it Don't know too much about the properties of VCL, but it seems similar to testament's forward exe beast in terms of use on wakeup.

Oh, no. It's just VCL is airborne from the 1st frame, so you could use it as a reversal to crush lows, throws or certain throw baits. There's no invince on it or anything; using anything else other than 2K would crush the VCL.

[bizarro]

@Saros: Yeah I totally understand. When I did option select in reload i was using a pad, so I just use my thumb for everything. I guess I just have to practice getting down the length difference between my middle finger and ring finger :p @stinky: Ah I get it now, didn't know VCL becomes airborne right from the 1st frame.