[CSE] Relius Clover Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[Kurushii]

This thread is so you can ask for critique from other Relius players. Other character forums have this and it's about time Relius got one. I hope this will help Relius players develop better and faster and help us share information as we don't have any japanese heroes to mimic.

Please try to be constructive, don't just troll each other.

[Judgemastar]

So just to clarify, we can post games of any skill level, correct? I know at lower levels you generally understand what you're doing wrong, and know ways to correct them. So should we not post games like that or is it acceptable?

[Kurushii]

So just to clarify, we can post games of any skill level, correct? I know at lower levels you generally understand what you're doing wrong, and know ways to correct them. So should we not post games like that or is it acceptable?

Of any skill level.

[Judgemastar]

Alrighty then. well, Got any pointers for me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5xHlL-eHGU&feature=youtu.be

[Dusk Thanatos]

Work on making your pressure scarier. Right now, it's IB practice and slow overheads, which won't hit anyone who can block worth 10 cents. Relius pressure isn't about gatling strings; it's more about making your opponent think they can escape by mashing, jumping out, or backdashing, and then punishing it. You were playing against a character without a free reversal, too, so you could definitely afford to be crazier.

Also, learn the timing to make 5B>6D a frametrap. You can do this by going into training, and setting the CPU to block until there's a gap in your blockstring. When you do 5B>6D with frametrap timing, the training dummy will get hit, and if it's gapless, the dummy won't get hit.

[Urichinan]

You also need to work on using Counter Assaults and reversals more, as well as rapiding your unsafe attacks. In the first round you were sitting on 100 Heat for a good while and did nothing with it the entire match.

[Judgemastar]

You also need to work on using Counter Assaults and reversals more, as well as rapiding your unsafe attacks. In the first round you were sitting on 100 Heat for a good while and did nothing with it the entire match.

I'm not always sure when to use counter assaults and what to do after it any pointers for that? Also, what should I rapid, I always thought I was supposed to rapid 236C, put Ignis away, then haul ass to catch my falling opponent with 5B.

Work on making your pressure scarier. Right now, it's IB practice and slow overheads, which won't hit anyone who can block worth 10 cents. Relius pressure isn't about gatling strings; it's more about making your opponent think they can escape by mashing, jumping out, or backdashing, and then punishing it. You were playing against a character without a free reversal, too, so you could definitely afford to be crazier.

Also, learn the timing to make 5B>6D a frametrap. You can do this by going into training, and setting the CPU to block until there's a gap in your blockstring. When you do 5B>6D with frametrap timing, the training dummy will get hit, and if it's gapless, the dummy won't get hit.

But isn't a barrage of frame traps extremely unsafe against someone with a good reversal? Should I still go for frame traps? I'm definitely gonna practice the frame traps but what should I use in the string? and what should I use when dealing with someone with a reversal?

One more thing,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoCvY4T4cBk&feature=g-upl&context=G22c7ad3AUAAAAAAABAA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUn5KPErqv0&feature=g-upl&context=G2b9ee33AUAAAAAAAAAA

They're matches from before I got the advice but I'd still like some pointers in these ones too.

[STenSatsu]

When fighting somebody with reversals you sometimes just block when you give them an opening in your trap strings. Tager is special but just about every character has to fight him a bit differently anyway. Most reversals are very unsafe unless they spend 50 meter.

When CAing, just try not to do it on a jump cancelable move so that if they are going to bait it, they have to go out of their way. For what to do after, just get out of the corner and back to neutral in general or try to put some pressure of your own on them.

Can RC 236c midscreen to unsummon ignis, same thing in the corner, midscreen to dash into a combo for extra damage and/or carry, or even RC something like 6a or 3c into another high or low if you really need to hti somebody.

[Dusk Thanatos]

But isn't a barrage of frame traps extremely unsafe against someone with a good reversal? Should I still go for frame traps? I'm definitely gonna practice the frame traps but what should I use in the string? and what should I use when dealing with someone with a reversal?

As a rule, any pressure that actually hits someone is going to be unsafe. Gatling into overhead is free to DP on pretty much every character, jump-in pressure is free to DP or can be backdashed, throws can be teched, sending you back to neutral, etc.

Some pressure is riskier than other pressure, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can pressure without taking risks and still hit people... unless they just like to stop holding downback out of nowhere.

Relius also has a better than average baiting tool in Led Ley, so if you think your opponent really wants that DP you can Led Ley through it

[BloodyRootBeers]

But isn't a barrage of frame traps extremely unsafe against someone with a good reversal? Should I still go for frame traps? I'm definitely gonna practice the frame traps but what should I use in the string? and what should I use when dealing with someone with a reversal?

Frame Traps are only effective if the opponent is pressing buttons/upbacking. If they like spamming reversals, bait it and punish it hard with a 6C FC to keep them honest. If they like upbacking, 6C or 2C catches most attempts to jump out. If they want to sit there all day and block, go for a throw or unblockable.

Also, his overhead is really good because it can be made gapless.

[Judgemastar]

Frame Traps are only effective if the opponent is pressing buttons/upbacking. If they like spamming reversals, bait it and punish it hard with a 6C FC to keep them honest. If they like upbacking, 6C or 2C catches most attempts to jump out. If they want to sit there all day and block, go for a throw or unblockable.

Also, his overhead is really good because it can be made gapless.

Do I wanna make my overhead safe with 6D? or do I want to save ignis for the 2D stronger combo? As of now I usually get counter hit out of 6A so I stopped doing it for now but now I'm wondering if it's worth bringing back.

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPRaEqvrt3g&feature=youtu.be

any critique is welcome :D

[Judgemastar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPRaEqvrt3g&feature=youtu.be

any critique is welcome :D

I feel like you're using Led Ley too much. And I think you should bring Ignis out more. I didn't see her for the majority of the game. But then again, I'm not one to be critiquing anyone lol.

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

I feel like you're using Led Ley too much. And I think you should bring Ignis out more. I didn't see her for the majority of the game. But then again, I'm not one to be critiquing anyone lol.

Thanks alot judgemaster, and i also have this other match for critiqueing as well if anyone wants to....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhyPAIHl5JU&list=UU7Pgk-ixSoud2MW1ysosgRg&index=1&feature=plcp, i start around 3:10

[Judgemastar]

Thanks alot judgemaster, and i also have this other match for critiqueing as well if anyone wants to....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhyPAIHl5JU&list=UU7Pgk-ixSoud2MW1ysosgRg&index=1&feature=plcp, i start around 3:10

For the Valk fight, I have a LOT of trouble with that matchup so I'm not sure on what advice to give. However,what I do know is there was a point where you caught valk with Val Tus and didn't run in and start a block string. If you catch your opponent with Ignis especially at full screen it's safe to go up and try stuff since they're stuck in block stun and if they don't respect, say, 5B they'll get hit. Unless it's a reversal. And then advice that was given to me was to counter assault. There was a point where you had 50 meter and valk had momentum and to stop it you tried to use your reversal. While that might have been good to hit his overhead or something, not so good right away on wakeup midscreen. Not sure on that though, just saying I prefer the counter assault.

You got way better since the first video you posted. My advice for that match is to find better uses for Led Ley. I know for a fact if you start your pressure with 2A, you'll be able to punish Led Ley. Might be able to do it with 5B, I gotta test that later. Other than that, watch the sneaky forced mid screen techs. There's no need to mash out a tech until you're knocked off your feet. Other than that, I'd wait for someone with more experience to give you better advice lol

[FR05tB1t3 BOB]

For the Valk fight, I have a LOT of trouble with that matchup so I'm not sure on what advice to give. However,what I do know is there was a point where you caught valk with Val Tus and didn't run in and start a block string. If you catch your opponent with Ignis especially at full screen it's safe to go up and try stuff since they're stuck in block stun and if they don't respect, say, 5B they'll get hit. Unless it's a reversal. And then advice that was given to me was to counter assault. There was a point where you had 50 meter and valk had momentum and to stop it you tried to use your reversal. While that might have been good to hit his overhead or something, not so good right away on wakeup midscreen. Not sure on that though, just saying I prefer the counter assault.

You got way better since the first video you posted. My advice for that match is to find better uses for Led Ley. I know for a fact if you start your pressure with 2A, you'll be able to punish Led Ley. Might be able to do it with 5B, I gotta test that later. Other than that, watch the sneaky forced mid screen techs. There's no need to mash out a tech until you're knocked off your feet. Other than that, I'd wait for someone with more experience to give you better advice lol

I appreciate your thoughts, i certainly will work on what you told me

[Judgemastar]

Alright, I'm hoping I improved, but can I get more pointers?

http://www.twitch.tv/jyosua/b/312460519

I start at 10:10 and keep playing for a good while. Not asking for anyone to watch them all, just a match or two and give me some pointers.

[Siefer]

vs:

This Jin player is super reckless and doesn't control space as well as he could in this match. He also needs to learn better block strings. Well, at least he knows to abuse 2D at mid-range against Relius, or maybe this is just what he always does.

Aside from dropping a lot of combos, I thought you were approaching in a little recklessly sometimes either without Ignis at all (crazy from full screen unless the opponent is doing nothing or recovering off of some long ass move) or just off of 214A by itself. I think you should have respected Jin on wakeup a little more because he was DPing like crazy. That being said, I can't really say much more from the first match because of how reckless Jin was playing. Personally, I would have played a little more passively against such a player and punish his whiffs or create openings with Ignis, 5Bs, 2Bs, 2Cs, and 2As.

The way you played the 2nd match is much, much better against this kind of player, and unsurprisingly (to me), you got better results. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but you have to be careful of comboing into astral off of a 3C, because if you're too close, it'll whiff. I think it would have been safer just to throw him into astral (more time to input too).

In the 3rd match in round 1, I thought that was a bad burst. Unless you were 100% confident you could have completely turned down the round around (or forced him to use his own burst at least), it didn't do anything for you in the end except waste a burst. I'm assuming this was a rage burst. In round 2, you could have finished the round by comboing into super, but you won in the end, so it's ok. In round 3, you could have actually killed him if you did a more advanced corner only gold burst combo into super (if not kill, you would have put him in a bad spot plus oki).

I stopped watching after the 3rd match, practice those combos.

[someonewhodied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AtWo9kDS20

(@ 6:31)

I know I'm terrible at everything but combos, but how can I improve? (Also, I started trolling when I realized i could win regardless of how I played)

[Zeron_X25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AtWo9kDS20

(@ 6:31)

I know I'm terrible at everything but combos, but how can I improve? (Also, I started trolling when I realized i could win regardless of how I played)

Just a general tip. Don't waste your meter on shitty super enders. Maybe it was your first time doing that combo and you got excited, etc. but try to save meter as much as you can. Better used for RCs and counter assaults.

[someonewhodied]

Alright, though since that combo builds 65 meter, wouldn't it be ok if I used it? i mean if I hit 100% meter, i will be wasting potential heat gain.

Would I be able to omit the final 5C(2)>4D>6C>Distortion and just go 3C>Unblockable Reset? I can't play right now so I can't test it.

[Siefer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AtWo9kDS20

(@ 6:31)

I know I'm terrible at everything but combos, but how can I improve? (Also, I started trolling when I realized i could win regardless of how I played)

This Ragna is awful.

That being said, your decisions at neutral are only working out here because this Ragna is absolutely awful and has now idea on how to use the tools he has available to him. You should be using doll more at neutral to cover yourself so you can get in and apply pressure more consistently than relying on footsie games with 5B alone (it is dangerous to engage in footsie games with Ragna anyway). You're only utilizing air dashing in terms of mobility in the air, and that isn't a good idea, especially against someone with a good anti-air like Ragna (or, he could have just air thrown you all day, that's what I would have done).

Zeron is right, generally speaking (especially against Ragna), you should be using meter for counter-assaults and RCs (to recharge meter, sometimes to kill), and only should be using a super at the end of your combos if it'll kill. You CAN use 632146D to catch people or their whiffs sometimes (which you did in round 3), but that isn't the rule of thumb, and you can generally get better damage or positioning off of other starters.

It's really hard to say anything else because your opponent was just really bad, or really, really new to Ragna or BlazBlue.

[someonewhodied]

This Ragna is awful.

That being said, your decisions at neutral are only working out here because this Ragna is absolutely awful and has now idea on how to use the tools he has available to him. You should be using doll more at neutral to cover yourself so you can get in and apply pressure more consistently than relying on footsie games with 5B alone (it is dangerous to engage in footsie games with Ragna anyway). You're only utilizing air dashing in terms of mobility in the air, and that isn't a good idea, especially against someone with a good anti-air like Ragna (or, he could have just air thrown you all day, that's what I would have done).

Zeron is right, generally speaking (especially against Ragna), you should be using meter for counter-assaults and RCs (to recharge meter, sometimes to kill), and only should be using a super at the end of your combos if it'll kill. You CAN use 632146D to catch people or their whiffs sometimes (which you did in round 3), but that isn't the rule of thumb, and you can generally get better damage or positioning off of other starters.

It's really hard to say anything else because your opponent was just really bad, or really, really new to Ragna or BlazBlue.

True. He was probably as new to blazblue in general as I am to using relius. (Like, first 10 matches new)

[TD]

is this still open? anyway, l figured i'd post my only relius vid in here for critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewI1rSamaI8

not the best play... i'd say my relius pressure is very basic. l really only focus on getting in and doing 2b 5b 6d x alot (ppl start getting hit by 2b after about the third rep LOL), and finally mixing in high/throw/other stuff after im absolutely sure the foe wont move. l still have this as my gameplan, its quite effective even now.

so yeah, only the first match is of relius, the rest is rachel/litchi. up to you guys if you wanna watch the rest.

and of course, obligatory thanks to zeth for the upload

[Feelin'TheWind]

Dam you TD. Your really solid and use other characters, while Im stuck with only Relius.

That aside, if you want some better pressure, try using 3C in your blockstrings. As the only jcable move on block we've got, you can use that to get in; even better if you use 6D or 2D as cover. Also, you can try doing 2B>6D>6A>6D. It will make your overhead completely safe if you time it right. Then, if you can condition your opponent to know that blockstring, you can do 2B>6D>6A/2B/throw>6D to keep pressuring them. Remember that you can only use 6A from 5A, 2A, 5B, and 2B.

I also like to do random 6C's in my blockstrings to fish for fatals although 6C is slow and you have frame disadvantage on block. With Ignis, you can cover the startup, and if it connects, you can do 214A, led ley or 214C. Same with 2C. On block, after 2C you can use 3C, 214A, led ley, or 6C.

@00:26 you did a fatal 2C. I've trained myself to always use 214C after a fatal 2C, Ignis summoned or not. I would then use sjc>jB>jC>9D>jC>9D>air id lauger>214B. Gives 38 meter and does about 3.8k damage *drains 2/3 of Ignis meter though*. However since you were near the corner, I think doing this would be better: 2C(fatal)>214C>6C>id lauger>214A>whatever.

I think you should use more 4D and 214C to have pinned Zeth more. Or have used 632146C @ 1:02 when you saw Ignis' meter almost drained. Or @ 1:15, you could have used 236236D.

Really, there's not much I don't think you already know. You've got a solid Relius already. Especially with this Bang, since high mobility characters give Relius a hard time since we can't pin them down easily.