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[CSE] Hakumen vs. Valkenhayn

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Kishuu>Enma is a very strong tool when dealing with wolf-form approach/pressure. It's upper and mid-body invincibility beats pretty much everything wolf form can do when you're on the ground accept for wolfcannon. So use with discretion, especially if Valk makes use of wolf-form's 5a, which hits low, something kishuu is vulnerable to.

Still make sure to stay mobile at all times, and don't forget that you can AA him if his approach is obvious. However, don't become reliant on 6a in this matchup.

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2A all day. Yukikaze is good too sometimes in wolf mixups.

6C must be beaten by 5A/5B on startup, or valk have hard to block high/low mixup.

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Valkenhayns using command grab very rare, its pretty unsafe and can be punished hard. Most times your yukikaze will be beaten by 4C/7C.

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chicken blocking? arent you setting yourself up for wolf 5B mash fests doing that?

I find simply spacing them out works. wolf dash can be canceled at any point by 1/9C to bait out punishes. whle he is doing this he is very vulnerable to 5A 5B and 5C (rarely).

6A is a god send vs that feint. i find the match up to be a more spacing game than much else. i do agree about being mobile. stay modile to keep wolf bs off you.

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Valk's 6C can usually be beaten out by 5A but I used Kishuu to avoid it before. I'll have to test 6A sometime this week as that might beat it clean.

I try to refrain from being in the air too much in this matchup against Wolf Form as he has [w]5B, j.A, and j.B. Like Kotokot said, 2A is pretty good. However, I utilize Hakumen's back-hop a good bit. If they aren't baiting something out with a feint and try to go in, Hotaru will beat them out. If they do feint and then fly in with j.A/j.B, you'll have enough time to land and use Kishuu/Enma in response.

6A is a pretty good move but don't use it too much or he'll pull your pants down and bite your ass. The other move that I've already talked a bit about is Hotaru. If you're in the corner, he literally has to play Rock-Paper-Scissors with you because Hotaru beats out so many of his options there. Make the Valk player fear it and you won't have to worry as much about his command throw if you decided to just block instead; the risk is not worth the reward for him.

At neutral for most distances, he's got you beat. His options from there aren't hard to block, but he is still able to keep the pressure on.

Just play it safe as there's no reason not to. Get to know your A button, it's your best friend here. Even if it's just a combo with sub-par but safe starter, it'll still do a decent amount of damage and carry him to the corner (which is most important as his defensive options come with 50 Heat). Keep moving but use a smart combination of air dashes and Kishuu to get out of a sticky corner situation and turn the tables on him.

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6A beats 6C , lose to 6C 4D/7D and may be 6C 1D/2D/3D w.5A depending on timing. Use 5A for it.

Better to use 2A, since you can be punished on whiff for hotaru if Valk timed 7C/4C or he can make you whiff it with just going a bit back after 1C, while 2A you can cancel into 5A/2A/5B/2B on whiff for 7C/4C.

On oki you have safe 2A for Valk reversal if it's perfect meaty.

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I think you should stick to the air as much as possible, imo. Treat it like vs'ing male Tao.

On the ground, you're very vulnerable to unblockable mixup. It's a guessing game, and the Valk can easily fake you out.

But in air, you can avoid w et al. by either barriering or with counters. You also have access to j.2c and j.B which will trade more often than not.

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True, I always used 5A/2A in CS2 against Valk and it worked pretty well. However, I would say that if you get knocked down, what you should do on wake-up depends on what form he's in. Agh, I need to write this all down and put it up. :(

EDIT: I wouldn't use j.D on [w]5B but barrier-guarding is the best option. Haku's j.B is good when falling vertically while a well-spaced j.2C is good when you're lower to the ground. I'm quite happy Haku's j.B trades pretty often with the anti-air now. And in regards to the hard-to-react-to mix-up, most times you can avoid being put in that situation by staying pro-active on controlling the space around you and moving properly.

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This sounds like a bad gameplan, elaborate on what you mean.

Are you saying to mash jd on air to air situations against wolf form, or just mash jd in air to ground situations against wolf form?

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Mash j.D on everything. It's invulnerable to grabs, beats any Valky air-to ground, beats pretty much all his ground attacks, and best of all, beats w[5B]. If you TK the input, you can't even get air grabbed. Ask Dreize in the Valky forums. He's killed many a child over this.

And when someone says "Mash xx," they're usually joking. This is a semi-joke, I guess, because I actually HAVE never lost with this tactic.

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I'd say that I'm pretty experienced in this match-up, so here's my personal input.

-Try to avoid being grounded for an extensive period of time in order to avoid wolf mix-up.

-If you're jumping out of his wolf pressure strings make sure to barrier guard immediately or you will be caught with air un-blockable w.5B

-j.D'ing w.5B is a possibility but it may be a tad risky at times since failing results in you being in the corner+2.5k damage on average.

-j.C is a good spacing tool that can snuff out random beast cannon's due to slow start-up

-j.B will almost always trade with Valky's w.5B

-Even though j.2C is relatively slow it's a great way to deal with grounded wolf mode due to it's large semi-omnidirectional hitbox, watch out for cross-under w.5B though

-Wake-up Sturm Wolf can be zanshin'd on reaction

-2C is a solid anti-air but watch out for w7C/4C as he can do it up to 3 times, you'll probably want to use it mostly to catch him jumping out of the corner/pressure

-2A is a good poke when dealing with grounded wolf since it has great range

-I'd recommend 6A/5D for anti-air purposes

-6B can snuff out w.5A, mostly a troll tactic

-Try to stay away from using 4C a lot since he can jump over to you in an instant

-If he tries to jump out of the corner and 7C/4C out you punish him with hotaru/tsubaki if timed properly

-Try to chick guard wolf mix-up if possible, it will make your life a lot easier

-Alot of Valky's tend to use blockstrings that involve 2C > 6B, you can yuki/6D the 6B on reaction

-6D/5D/6A/yuki are also good for dealing with Valky's 6C shenanigans, watch out though as he can cancel it into wolf on start-up only

-A lot of Valky's will transition from w.5A into 5C into wj.A, you can 6D/5D it on reaction

-If he runs up to you in wolf mode and mashes w.5A you can 2D it on reaction

-If you get hit by 236B~B in the corner, expect to eat about 5k meterless. If you get hit by 6C in the corner, expect to eat about 5k meterless. If you get hit by 6B in the corner, expect to eat about 5.5k meterless. (these are average damage values and they assume that the Valky is doing optimal combos)

-Don't tech roll in the corner, as Valky can punish you with a meaty 6B

-If he has 50 meter and is pressuring you in the corner watch out for j.C > rapid > j.C fuzzy guard set-ups.

General Gameplan:

If I was Haku in this match-up, I'd play the spacing game. Try to stay in the air and use your godlike air normals as a means to approach and as spacing tools, this is also good for chicken guarding wolf mix-up. Valky doesn't really have an answer to your pressure so you don't have to worry about mashed out DP's or anything, keep in mind that he can sturm wolf on wake-up though. If you suspect that he is going to wake-up sturm wolf jump out of the way so it whiffs, then taunt him, then fully charge a 6C fatal, then commence rape. Keep in mind that Valky's counter assault is probably his best defensive tool, since it is very slow you can actually bait it as a means to punish. Use your counters wisely or you will be raped by human mode, especially in the corner.

That's all that I can really think of right now, I may be missing a few things.

If all else fails, just mash j.D/5D like 90% of online Haku's do.

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Alright as I said I am going to give a template on how I want the matchup thread OP's should be, by giving my own example on a matchup I am familiar with. Forgive me if I forget information because I haven't really played BB much in the last month or two and only occasionally playing against Valkenhayn, though I "sub" him so I'm aware fo what he can and can't do.

Also I would like to note I am incredibly tired while writing this so if you see any REALLY weird typos it is because I'm on autopilot.

I will be trying to create a comprehensive matchup guide like how eh-san has done in the Ky thread in GG: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12897-My-Ky-Trade-Secrets-thread/page3&p=1351736&viewfull=1#post1351736

I linked the Sol matchup with Ky, because I feel that this matchup is very akin to Hakumen vs Valkenhayn (another matchup similar to this is Hakumen vs Ragna, but I'll save that for another time). Valkenhayn is what you would call a katame character, for those who don't know what katame is I'll link a definition of it:

For those unfamiliar with katame, it's a situation where because you blocked something, the opponent gets a chance to end the round or gain a heavy advantage only because you blocked. Even though blocking is the incorrect move in a katame situation, it does occur rather often in matches. The most famous example is Eddie making you block something, which allows him to use a little Eddie to chain off the blockstun and possibly ruin you and end the round.

in otherwords Valkenhayn's main aim is to get you to block, anything. By so doing it allows him to cancel into his wolf form into intense mixup and pressure. While Hakumen may have the most powerful defensive options in the game, Zanshin parries, it is almost useless against wolf form because it is too difficult to even block wolf block strings for extended periods of time, let alone actively IB's them and predicting obvious moves to counter. As Hakumen your main aim is to find opportunities to chase and lock down Valkenhayn's human form preventing him from either escaping or going into wolf form. Wolf form is the main problem for Hakumen since wolf form shuts down a lot of hakumen's offensive and defensive options. Contrarily Valkenhayn's human form is very susceptible to Hakumen's pressure and frame traps since he has no meterless reversal options against you and his only option for escape is 6a which can easily be dealt with by doing low jumps and low hitting stagger pressure like 2b against him since Valkenhayn's 6a loses to lows, and grabs. However it is important to note that a badly timed grab and be beaten by a quick 6a. Because of all of this i would say this matchup is dead even 5-5, with Hakumen's greater damage output and health over Valkenhayn and strong tools against Valkenhayn's human form while Valkenhayn's wolf katame shutting down all of Hakumen's defensive options and as well as Hakumen's offensive options and having lower damage and health neither have the advantage over the other overall in the matchup.

Neutral game: As Hakumen you have 3 main goals, limit Valkenhayn's opportunities to go into wolf form, avoid being put into situations where you have to block, and once you lock him down it is very important to stay on him. Valkenhayn's is basically to put you into a situation where you must block wolf mixup and to press you into the corner where his oki is the equivalent of a coin toss, because you will be forced to guess and a strong Valkenhayn player will keep you there until you basically die.

Limiting wolf transformations involve interrupting human form block strings that leave Valk plus on on block to change into wolf to pressure you. These include normals like 6b, natch rosen, natch jaager, and the occasional mondlitch (though there's not much you can do about this specific move). From there Valk picks up his momentum by locking you down and preventing you from escaping, you will want to eventually resort to chicken blocking after a point since he will absolutely maul you with instant overheads, fuzzy guards, and ambiguous lows. Him hitting you allows him to combo you straight into the corner which is Valk's next objective because Zanshin is only as good if you KNOW where your opponent is attacking.

Your main tools for pressure Valkenhayn is jc it has an excellent hitbox and is pretty your only relatively safe poke in the matchup, DO NOT use 4c in the matchup.

With that I will edit this during the weekend and what not I am falling asleep at my computer. I would appreciate feedback for what I wrote so far, I have never done this before.

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