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[CSE] Hakumen vs. Ragna

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Be ready to tech throws, do not be fooled by Ragna running towards you he can easily stop to throw you when you Counter anticipating a attack. If you can time it, 2D works wonders against his 6C and 2D as well as his other lows. A bad player will fall prey to your counters but smart ones will mix up their attack with throws. I stress even more that teching throws is valuable here as both ground and air throw will take you to the corner where either Ragna's long combos will get you or a mixup to extend his damage. I want to say 6B is overhead but I haven't seen a Ragna use it outside of a combos when I play them. If they run use 4C to stop their momentum. I'm not sure how strong Ragna's air game but players seem to avoid air approaches but if you approach from the air be wary of his fatal counters in 2C and I want to say D as well. But I am most likely wrong on the second one. Please if I got something wrong let me know! But last words tech throws (better yet use them when you can) and 2D help a lot.

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4C sucks.

5B and 2B are what you should be using.

And uh, plenty of Ragnas use 6B and/or Gauntlet Hades as overheads, so 2D isn't really a safe option for his blockstrings.

Backdash is useful for getting around 5B and 5C. Haku 4C usually sucks but is ok after a backdash to "punish" a whiff 5B/5C.

4C still sucks. If you really want a long range poke in any other situation, I think it's worth it to spend 1 meter on Gurren.

Just from looking at your post, you probably haven't fought any actual Ragnas. The matchup is really all about the neutral game. Hakumen can't just derp 4C/j.C against Ragna.

2B has more range against Ragna, but 5B also covers a bit of air space in case he IAD's, as well as being able to counter poke 5B/5C better.

3C is worth mentioning, though the extra range doesn't really help as much as it does against other characters. Just be wary of jump ins, as you will get punished for free.

Edit: I forgot this was Ragna we're talking about. 3C can be whiff punished hard by Ragna 5B/5C, so be very wary with using it.

For anti airs, I personally like j.A, but there are specific ranges and timings where 5A, 5B, or 6A work the best. You'll have to figure that out with experience.

If you're timing is good, you can go for 6D instead, or if you're sense of time is godlike, you can mix it with 5D for the later air dashes.

Also, Ragna 5A/6A beats most Haku air approaches, so just stay on the ground. If you're really ballsy, you can bait it with j.D. The risk/reward isn't in your favor though.

On offense, be wary of the occasional DP. You can also do an instant overhead against Ragna by canceling a blocked point blank 5B into j.B > Tsubaki. Otherwise, just do any normal Hakumen mixup.

On defense, just block. Counters are ass. If you're reactions are godlike, you can try 6D against overheads.

This matchup basically hasn't changed at all since CT. And it looks like it won't change much in CP either. So learn it now, and you won't have to learn it again.

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Well, I don't think it beats his 5B or 5C. Just HF since the hitbox is high enough.

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I think it has to do with move attributes, not hitboxes.

Kishu has head and body invincibility, so it should beat out 5B/5C as well as other stuff like Gauntlet Hades.

I'm not exactly sure though. I do remember in CS2 that sometimes Kishu would get beat by 5C, but that might have been because the invincibility was too short or whatever.

That is one of the things that got buffed in CSEX right? I haven't been really playing CSEX so....

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Glad ot see activity from fellow hakumen players here.

4C sucks.

5B and 2B are what you should be using.

And uh, plenty of Ragnas use 6B and/or Gauntlet Hades as overheads, so 2D isn't really a safe option for his blockstrings.

Backdash is useful for getting around 5B and 5C. Haku 4C usually sucks but is ok after a backdash to "punish" a whiff 5B/5C.

4C still sucks. If you really want a long range poke in any other situation, I think it's worth it to spend 1 meter on Gurren.

Just from looking at your post, you probably haven't fought any actual Ragnas. The matchup is really all about the neutral game. Hakumen can't just derp 4C/j.C against Ragna.

2B has more range against Ragna, but 5B also covers a bit of air space in case he IAD's, as well as being able to counter poke 5B/5C better.

3C is worth mentioning, though the extra range doesn't really help as much as it does against other characters. Just be wary of jump ins, as you will get punished for free.

Edit: I forgot this was Ragna we're talking about. 3C can be whiff punished hard by Ragna 5B/5C, so be very wary with using it.

For anti airs, I personally like j.A, but there are specific ranges and timings where 5A, 5B, or 6A work the best. You'll have to figure that out with experience.

If you're timing is good, you can go for 6D instead, or if you're sense of time is godlike, you can mix it with 5D for the later air dashes.

Also, Ragna 5A/6A beats most Haku air approaches, so just stay on the ground. If you're really ballsy, you can bait it with j.D. The risk/reward isn't in your favor though.

On offense, be wary of the occasional DP. You can also do an instant overhead against Ragna by canceling a blocked point blank 5B into j.B > Tsubaki. Otherwise, just do any normal Hakumen mixup.

On defense, just block. Counters are ass. If you're reactions are godlike, you can try 6D against overheads.

This matchup basically hasn't changed at all since CT. And it looks like it won't change much in CP either. So learn it now, and you won't have to learn it again.

Thanks for the compliment :)

Also what steel says is what the matchup is about. I would also like to add that if your opponent catches you with an airgrab and you break it, and provided they didn't airdash to grab you prior to the grab attempt, if he airdashes and jc, it'll beat out your jc.

623AA beats everything.

Unless it whiffs.

You aren't exactly at an advantage if it gets blocked either....

Yes, but even then due to it's jump cancellable properties it makes it hard to punish on block unless you preemptively go for an airgrab, but that's dangerous.

Well, I don't think it beats his 5B or 5C. Just HF since the hitbox is high enough.

it does, just depends on the range. The hitbox of 5c is smaller the further away you are from Ragna, unlike 5b which has a more straight forward hitbox. I should also add that 5b is a decent AA that can hit hakumen in areas he has a hard time covering. Anyways, it's also important that as strong as kishuu is in this matchup, you still can't herp derp it since it only gains its invincible properties as of the 5th frame.

I play this matchup regularly.

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How do you generally approach the matchup. Do you just try to keep Ragna out, or go in on him once you get stars, etc.

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It depends, playing against Ragna is really the median of playing against zoners and rushdown. You have to know when and how to approach and what beats out what. Perosnally kishuu>enma is one of the strongest tools against Ragna in the neutral game in order to open him up, since if spaced correctly, it can beat his air approaches, his extremely strong pokes (5b 5c), and can occasionally beat death spike as well.

Though that one depends and I need to test the properties of that, I think it has more to do with timing than spacing from my understanding, I could count the times I was about to go through death spike with kishuu.

For the most part you want to zone and keep him out until you get enough stars to do something, preferrably 3+ stars. If you are familiar with Ragna's block strings and he gets in close, it's nothing like tager so you don't need to stress, just IB as much as you can to get additional meter and you NEED to learn to counter on reaction death spike (it's +5 on block and allows Ragna to continue his pressure), and gauntlet hades it's a fairly slow overhead. Try to avoid counter death spike with 2d as the range of it's hitbox usually won't catch Ragna, and 6d probably will though.

Once you get enough stars to hurt him, I personally either try these 3 options depending on who I'm facing:

Jumping out of his pressure and get a CH jb on him, usually from a crossup due to it's improved hitbox. I tend to go for this if I'm in the corner because then I can put him in the corner.

Jab him out of his pressure, if you have good reactions you can 2a his 6b overhead if he goes for it.

Ragna can't pressure you forever and if he tries you can either jab him out of something, like his overhead I said, or land a counter on him. Though I rarely use this.

Ragna will come to you in this matchup so you don't really have to stress your heads over him coming close. But you really need to know how to hitconfirm when you finally open him up.

Oh yea finally, almost never use 4c in this matchup. I hope my post will be found useful.

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It's useful. I hit Ragna's out of Dead Spike a lot with 3C. It seems to be dependent on their range or something though.

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Spacing and timing there too, I've done the same. Though I don't force things like that online due to lag affecting the timing of everything, I usually rely on cheap hakumen-only tactics online.

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I just play same as always, unless it's too laggy, in which case I probably just won't play. But I mean, if you're playing you want to get better, so if you don't play like it's a normal match you won't get as much out of it.

Also what cheap Hakumen only tactics. :P I must add these to my scumbag repertoire.

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Well now, seems like matchup threads are finally seeing a revival...

I think most technique stuff got covered here. Not much to add to that. I'll just say that I find this iteration of Rag the toughest to deal with since he does monster dmg now and carries right to the corner on top. You really have to be on your toes.

That said, matchup is the same as usual with neutral game determining the winner. I believe whoever gets the momentum going will likely win the match, but both characters have tools to quickly reverse that, so eh.

Anyway, what I like to do here is to neutralize the Rag's offence as much as possible by putting out pokes of my own or catching/countering his stuff. You need to break him down before you can start pressuring him. This is one matchup where I can't go RTSD as I like (unless I made the Rag afraid to push buttons or something) mostly because of DP and 6a.

Against strong Rags, use of DP is really the wild card, imo. Strong players like SKD will kill you real quick if your pressure is unsafe and just DP everything you throw out, so you need to psych them out first. Bait some DPs or counter their stuff, or stuff their approach.

On approach, Rag's strongest tools are 5b and j.C. Don't even think of doing 4c unless max range. 5b can be caught with 5D if telegraphed, but he might mix it up with throw, so you need a strong read before attempting. You can also throw out 5c, 3c, 5b, 6a, or 2a preemptively, but your spacing/timing needs to be on point. My decision here depends on location. If in the corner, I'd try to jump out. If it's midscreen, I might try one of the above moves or do a j.B.

About j.C, you can AA with 6a, but again your spacing/timing needs to be on point. If you're ballsy, you can Kishuu for a cross-under punish. Or jump into it and counter/Hotaru. Lots of ways around it. Imo, your worst option is to block it standing because Rag can start his blockstrings from there and you're going to mess up eventually. You might as well just jump back -> j.C.

Whatever you do, don't let him faceroll all over you. Keep him on his toes by interrupting his approach and initiating something of your own. Especially in EX, it's easy for Rag to disrespect you if you're not bringing him into your pace.

Your best bet is to observe your opponent's habits and punish where you can. I strongly believe that you need to learn to D-counter react to his telegraphed moves, such as 2D, DS, HF, 6b, GF, etc. These are all unsafe moves on their own, and you need to capitalize on each on reaction since they are such great opportunities to turn the tables.

I also strongly believe that you need to twitch-react to his approaches with something of your own, and I hope I said as much above. Never, ever stay idle vs. Rag.

Anyway, I feel like I could add more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

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