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MetalMaelstrom

[CSE] Hazama Combo Guide and Combo Discussion Thread

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I know about those, but I'm wondering whether the 214D~D>j.6D~D>66C link is still valid or not. Basically, I want to throw a 66C somewhere in there, like we did in CS2. The link itself greatly resembles the latter part of our CS2 BnB, so why can't that work instead?

Ummm...how? CH 6C rarely ever links into 214D~C, and dash canceling Jayoku won't help too much, considering that after you catch them with 214D~C, reapeat proration won't allow you to followup with 6C.

Decreased attack level of chains. They went from level 5 to level 4 going from CS2 to EX. Therefore, not enough hitstun to link a long start-up attack like 6C.

As for what to do after 214D~C if 6C has already been used in the combo: 6A. It's a tighter link than 214D~C xx 6C but it works and allows you to pick up afterward.

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No, backthrow > stance cancel > j.6D~D > 66C works, but only when the opponent is thrown in the corner. And you're far enough for j.6D to cause enough hitstun.

And yeah, when you've used up 6C before Houtenjin you replace it with 6A. And for the rare occasions when you hit them with raw Zaneiga > 6C > Houtenjin, you can go straight for dash 6A, or dash Gasshou in the corner;

lvl2 Gasshou pickup into 5C > 2C > TK does more damage, but if you want to add a Mizuchi in there you have to go for 6A since 3C > Mizuchi won't work after 2 Gasshous.

Oh, also if you get the opponent close to the corner but not enough for 66C to connect after a backthrow, you can do j6D~C > 2C > TK > dash 5C > 6C > loop x3 > Gasshou ender if you do corner them with TK > 66 5C.

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Backthrow > Serpent's Haste reset > forward sj.6D~D > 66.6C always works, any distance (apart from corner, but why on earth wouldn't you just use sZaneiga in the corner instead?). The super jump instead of regular jump makes all the difference. And you have to super jump forward, not vertical/backward.

Also 6C is an excellent tool against Tager in certain situations. It also puts up a wall against rush down characters if you time it right. It's still a risky move at the best of times though. (practically everyone's 6C is)

On a random note, from what I've tested it seems Hazama's very best starter is a 5C (air hit) > Hungry Coils > JH

In Corner

Works on Ragna/Arakune. For others you just do the usual TK loop > Mizuchi stuff. I'm still fine tuning it.

5C (air hit) > 623D > 236236B > 236D.sC > Gold Burst > 66.6C > 66 > tk loop x4 > 5C > j5Cx5 > 5C > 236D.B > 3C > Mizuchi. [DM: 9125]

I was able to get over 9200 on relius doing tk loop x2 > 66 > tk loop 3x, which is something that works on a lot of characters.

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I didn't even know superjump j.6D worked... it must be tight as hell :v:

The best combo starter should be 6C CH (opponent FACING the corner) > dash gold burst x2 > Jakou > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > 6A or 2C > loop xN > Gasshou > Mizuchi. It nets over 10k, I don't remember whether 6A or 2C is the better choice though.

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Well I meant more something that's always available to you in the game lol. You can't even do double burst unless you've lost a round already :v:

5C > Jakou really isn't that hard once you get used to it. Just pretend you're a stupid ragna using D Inferno Divider everytime you land a ground-to-air hit lol.

The only legitimate gold burst situation I see is after a Zaneiga (one that you'll actually get to use in a game is what I mean). I suppose after a 6C CH on a blocked DP could be legit too. Obviously you could do it after a Houtenjin but what a waste of a super Zaneiga.

It really is just a waste of a Burst though. Even if it does "make the difference between killing them or not" you may have just lost your Burst for the sake of winning one round, and will lose the match as a result. Obviously if it nets you a match winning round then by all means.

----

Back to stupid Gold Burst shenanigans, are you sure 6C CH > Gold Burst > Jakou > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > Gold Burst is not better? Just tested it, it is better to do 2 in a row at the beginning.

On a whim I decided to find out what moves you can Gold Burst off of.

CH 3C

CH 2C/5C(1) > Fake Jump > Aerial Gold Burst

CH 6C Opponent facing you in corner

CH j2C/5C > jc Aerial Gold Burst

Any Ground D~D > Aerial Gold Burst

Zaneiga

Houtenjin

Grab into corner (either one)

Gashou into Wall

Venom Sword into Wall (either CH or after 3C)

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Backthrow > Serpent's Haste reset > forward sj.6D~D > 66.6C always works.

Even on Tager?

And another thing, is the CH 6B>3C>214D~C link universal?

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Idk, I haven't looked into the j.6D~D xx 66C link working on all characters or not, but it really doesn't matter all that much since you get most of your damage and meter from looping anyway. I'm not even sure if the loop would even work after j.6D~D xx 66C midscreen, as it could have knocked the opponent back too far for the 2C or j.214B to connect.

As for CH 6B xx 3C link, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless your opponents are being hit by CH 6B in a notably frequent manner.

Works on Ragna/Arakune. For others you just do the usual TK loop > Mizuchi stuff. I'm still fine tuning it.

5C (air hit) > 623D > 236236B > (S)214D.C > Gold Burst > 66.6C > 66 > tk loop x4 > 5C > j5Cx5 > 5C > 214D.B > 3C > Mizuchi. [DM: 9125]

I was able to get over 9200 on relius doing tk loop x2 > 66 > tk loop 3x, which is something that works on a lot of characters.

Is the j.C x 5 really necessary? At that point in the combo you're probably just sacrificing damage and proration. Super combos with a starter like 5C or 6C or even 2C should be able to get 6 or 7 loop reps. Also flash-kick xx 3C doesn't work on a few characters (thanks for pointing that out, EvilCommie).

It really is just a waste of a Burst though. Even if it does "make the difference between killing them or not" you may have just lost your Burst for the sake of winning one round, and will lose the match as a result. Obviously if it nets you a match winning round then by all means.

Just you wait for CP, then.

huehuehue

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Flash Kick > 3C works on everyone except Tager. Its a ludicrously annoying balancing act between:

1. Whether or not you microdash before your first tk loop.

2. How many tk loops you use before your second micro dash

3. How many tk loops you use after the second micro dash

4. Whether you use 7,8, or 9 to perform your tk, and on which tks you use them on.

Lamdba is an incredibly and finnicky character to try and do it on, but it does work.

I'll post stuff later tonight.

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Gasshou > 3C works on Lambda after 4 reps, which is rather inconvenient since you often don't have the luxury to loop so many times.

I don't know if it gets any better by doing 7214B, reducing it into 3 reps or something sounds unlikely. Gotta test it

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The standard, most compatible "4 reps" combo I found is:

... > No initial micro dash > tk loop > micro dash > 8tk loop x3

It doesn't work on everyone, but it has a high number of compatible characters.

On Lambda I believe you're required to use 9tk loops at least once, which can explain why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

I'll put it through the lab when I get home tonight

Oh and yes the j5cx5 is not as optimal as a fourth rep, but I still prefer it for the sake of ease of use and reliability. It never fails, unlike tk loops > 3c sometimes. you lose a tiny smidge of damage I believe. You can use micro dash > 5c > 8j5Cx5 to do it on a bunch of other characters as well, such as Hakumen. Again, not optimal, but nice and reliable.

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Flash Kick > 3C works on everyone except Tager. Its a ludicrously annoying balancing act between:

1. Whether or not you microdash before your first tk loop.

2. How many tk loops you use before your second micro dash

3. How many tk loops you use after the second micro dash

4. Whether you use 7,8, or 9 to perform your tk, and on which tks you use them on.

Lamdba is an incredibly and finnicky character to try and do it on, but it does work.

I'll post stuff later tonight.

So basically you're saying it's distance-dependent? If you'd be so kind and tell us what you've found works on the characters that, so far as I know 214D~B xx 3C doesn't work on, it'd be helpful.

Though honestly, if distance is the problem, and judging by EvilCommie's google doc, it's safe to say that if you're just really close to the opponent then 3C will connect (except on Tager).

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So basically you're saying it's distance-dependent? If you'd be so kind and tell us what you've found works on the characters that, so far as I know 214D~B xx 3C doesn't work on, it'd be helpful.

Though honestly, if distance is the problem, and judging by EvilCommie's google doc, it's safe to say that if you're just really close to the opponent then 3C will connect (except on Tager).

precisely, and some characters have absurdly specific setups. You have to be close enough to hit, but far enough away to Mizuchi. Tager presents a unique problem in that he's so large, he touches the ground at a distance higher than 3Cs hitbox, so he's always allowed to Emergency Tech before it. I have found a stupid, ultra gimmicky way to gashou > mizuchi Tager (NO 3c) But it's useless because it doesn't work after a real combo due to stun proration. I believe it was something like 2B > 5C(1) > 2C > 4D > 214D > delay > B (meaty hit) > mizuchi

As I said, this is just a gimmick I found for the sake of it that has no real practical use. Its absurdly hard to time the gashou as well. Tager has to "collapse" into gashou's active frames after he bounces after 4D

I like the word absurdly

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I'm in the lab now, will post stuff as I find them regarding character-specific corner Mizuchi:

(I'll consolidate these later into groups when I've tested all of them)

My goal is to list each character with 1, 2, 3, and 4 tk rep variations for the sake of compensating for combos that have low stun proration.

The combo I'm doing this off of is always the same:

5C > Houtenjin > sZaneiga > 66-crossunder > 6C > 66.2C > delay 5C > 6D.A > 4D.A > Jakou > ... > 5C > 2C > Gashou > 3C > Mizuchi

Important: I use 9tk by default on everything because that's the easiest way for me to do it. I don't doubt that most of these can work with any TK most of the time. Just because it says 9tk doesn't mean you have to use 9, unless I specify otherwise.

---

Ragna, Litchi, Tsubaki*, & Arakune:

... > Microdash irrelevant > tk x N > micro dash > tk > etc. confirmed.

The only thing you need to worry about on these characters is that whatever you do, your final TK needs to have a dash at the beginning of it at close range. However, if you fail the microdash, you can still salvage this combo by doing 5C > 9j5Cx5 > 5C > Gashou.

*Tsubaki does not get hit by the 9j5Cx5 ender.

Jin:

Jin is super easy, just do any TK > etc. and it works. Literally anything will work, even just tk x4. The only thing you shouldn't do is use 7tk over and over because Gashou will miss if you do that too much.

If you don't feel like exerting yourself, you can just do: No Initial Microdash > 5C > etc. and it works without any TKs at all.

Noel:

.. > No Microdash > tk x1 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed (7 to jump required)

.. > Microdash irrelevant > tk x1 > microdash > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed (7 to jump required on last two tk)

.. > Microdash irrelevant > tk x2 > microdash > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed (7 to jump required on last two tk)

Rachel & Hazama:

.. > No Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed

Taokaka:

.. > No Microdash > 7tk > etc. confirmed

.. > No Microdash > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed

Lambda:

.. > Walk backward > 7tk x1 > etc. confirmed (difficult but doable, thank god you rarely, if ever, need this. you can just do the 2 rep version instead most of the time)

.. > No Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

.. > Microdash > 9tk > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed (pain in the ass)

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

Carl:

.. > No Microdash > 7tk/8tk x1 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump fails)

.. > Microdash > 7tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

Bang, Hakumen, & Makoto:

.. > Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed

Mu-12:

.. > No Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

.. > No Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > No Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x4 > etc. confirmed

Relius:

.. > Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash irrelevant > 9tk x3 > Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

Platinum:

.. > No Microdash > 9tk > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash > 9tk x3 > etc. confirmed

.. > Microdash irrelevant > 9tk x2 > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed

Valkenhayn:

.. > No 1-rep combo confirmed.

.. > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

.. > Microdash irrelevant > 9tk > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

.. > Microdash irrelevant > 9tk x2 > Microdash > 9tk x2 > etc. confirmed (9 to jump required)

Tager:

Here's the gimmicky corner Mizuchi thing

... > Microdash > 9tk > 2B > 5C > 2C > 4D > 214D~delay~B > Mizuchi. Fails to work after most combos due to stun proration. (tager air techs before the hit)

------

Phew, I believe that's everyone. Let corner Mizuchi reign.

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Problem is this is specific for that corner combo, even though alot of it will still work in any combo that does crossunder 6c into jakou. For example, try doing cross under 6c > dash hiren > jakou, then "Noel: .. > No Microdash > tk x1 > etc. confirmed" wont work.

The sheet i made was just a general list of from what distances 3c or 3c > mizuchi will connect. Maybe i didn't mention this but the reason i used the combo i did was that after the first hiren the dash puts you as close as you can get, thus i could measure how far away you are from your opponent in hiren-loop-lengths. And this can be adapted for any corner combo ever, because by knowing from what distances you can change where your dashes are etc. (I did not do different version of the loop though, i used 85214b motion for everything.)

Something i want to add is that j.c(5) > 5c/2c > ... puts you at the equivalent of one loop-length away, thus it works on Ragna, Litchi, Tsubaki, Hakumen, Bang, Jin and Mu. While doing j.c(5) > 2c > tk.214b > ... puts you at two loop-lengths away, which then would work on Noel, Hazama, Hakumen, Bang, Arakune, Rachel, Jin, Makoto, Platinum and Valk. And then you can add loops after to make it work on character which requiers you to be further away.

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6c > dash hiren > jakou

Not entirely sure what you mean by this, I'm assuming Hiren is Wind Serpent's Fang. Are you saying to do a dash TK loop after doing cross-under 6C? I believe I've tried that before and it's not optimal if I remember correctly. My combo (which I currently believe is optimal) is:

(Corner)

5C (or any confirm) > Houtenjin > dash sZaneiga > cross-under 6C > dash 2C > delay > 5C > 6D.A > 4D.A > Jakou > etc. etc.

Also, I know for a fact that 9jCx5 does not work on Haku-men, having failed it on him many times. However, Dash > 8jCx5 (that's right, 8) > 5C > Gashou > 3C > Mizuchi does work on Haku-men and a number of other people.

What's most important for doing corner Mizuchi is simply know how to perform your TK loops to get it to work off of a close dash. For instance if you know your opponent gets hit by "dash into > tk loop x2 > gashou > 3c mizuchi" then all you really need to do is make sure to end your combo with a microdash into them before two tk loops. The rest of the combo is irrelevant, so long as it provides enough stun proration.

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The optimal combo is the following:

starter > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > crossunder 6C > dash/walk TK > dash 5C > 2C > Jakou > dash TK xN. Off 5C N=4 and it nets 8.2K with Mizuchi ender.

You want to avoid using chains in most of his long combos now.

What I did a long time back was try raw Zaneiga > 6C > dash TK > dash TK xN on every single character, with a different amount of reps each time to see what works after a microdash and what not. Try that out, at least against the characters you play more often against.

The results yielded will not work only after point black TK > microdash; you have the luxury to perform 2 or even 3 loops before that, so if you know just that it shouldn't be a problem. I just messed around with this and never had a problem or needed to test TKing with different inputs.

By the way, if you do the above combo against Lambda, 3C > Mizuchi WILL connect after Jakou > dash TK x4, despite Hazama seemigly being too far away after Jakou. The dash covers just enough space for it to work.

Lambda is pretty much the only character that'll force you to mess with different TK inputs, just because 4 reps are too much off most hitconfirms. Ctrl did confirm that Microdash > 9tk > 7tk x2 works, so that should do it.

I was thinking about listing how many reps you need against each character yesterday before Ctrl, but after I started typing I just couldn't remember it by heart. I usually do when the time comes though. :v:

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^Agreed, but I still feel the need to engage in these discussions just to CORRECT people on how WRONG they are. It is my civil duty as a citizen of the internet.

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The optimal combo is the following:

starter > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > crossunder 6C > dash/walk TK > dash 5C > 2C > Jakou > dash TK xN. Off 5C N=4 and it nets 8.2K with Mizuchi ender.

You want to avoid using chains in most of his long combos now.

What I did a long time back was try raw Zaneiga > 6C > dash TK > dash TK xN on every single character, with a different amount of reps each time to see what works after a microdash and what not. Try that out, at least against the characters you play more often against.

The results yielded will not work only after point black TK > microdash; you have the luxury to perform 2 or even 3 loops before that, so if you know just that it shouldn't be a problem. I just messed around with this and never had a problem or needed to test TKing with different inputs.

By the way, if you do the above combo against Lambda, 3C > Mizuchi WILL connect after Jakou > dash TK x4, despite Hazama seemigly being too far away after Jakou. The dash covers just enough space for it to work.

Lambda is pretty much the only character that'll force you to mess with different TK inputs, just because 4 reps are too much off most hitconfirms. Ctrl did confirm that Microdash > 9tk > 7tk x2 works, so that should do it.

I was thinking about listing how many reps you need against each character yesterday before Ctrl, but after I started typing I just couldn't remember it by heart. I usually do when the time comes though. :v:

When using this combo, most of my stuff is still relevant, but as I said before, what's most important is knowing how to connect it after doing a microdash. For instance if you know you can do microdash > tk x2. Then that means you can just do tk x N > microdash tk x2 and it will work. The end is what's most important, not the total number of reps (although obviously the total number of reps will dictate how many you can do beforehand)

As for the 1-rep stuff, I really am drawing a blank imagining a confirm that only allows you 1-rep but you can still do the dash under > tk > jakou > further tks. So it's kind of pointless that my 1-rep stuff doesn't technically work on this combo (you'll practically never use 1 rep anyway)

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So essentially, for those of us who don't have built-in encyclopedias, can't we just make the universal corner BnB:

Starter>JH>214D~C>CU 66C>66>2C>Delay 5C>6D~A>4D~A>623D>66>TK x 2>(9 or 8) j.Cx5>5C>2C>214D~B>3C>MR

I know the last part excludes Tager, but otherwise shouldn't the (9 or 8) j.Cx5 link really determine any character specific Mizuchi ender distances? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but specific TK inputs and reps should only really be necessary if you want to squeeze in as many as possible, and not if you're just aiming to get the minimal amount of reps/

I also know this may not be optimal, but I really don't feel right finishing a Haz combo without at leat one j.Cx5 rep. As broken as the TK loop can be, I would still prefer to play Haz as close to the intended design as possible. If one wants to find the optimal damage against EVERY character in the cast, feel free to do so. Right now I'm only interested in a single corner Bnb ending with a MR that actually deserves to be called a "BnB."

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A really craptastic, Mizuchi corner that works on everyone with no TKs at all is:

Confirm (in this case, 5C) > Houtenjin > sZaneiga > CU 66C > no dash 2C > delay > 5C > 6D~A > 4D~A > jb.8D~A > Jakou > 2C > jCx5 > 2C > 4D~A > 4D~delay Jakou > 3C > Mizuchi

Immensely suboptimal, but it's there. It's important to note that the second 4D does not use an A Cancel.

For some reason my brain is remembering something about Mizuchi dropping halfway through on a combo similar to this, but I'm pretty sure this variation does actually work. It's been a while since I used a combo this bad.

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Of course you would need a 100 p1 starter to do a combo that has 2 moves with repeat proration being used twice in the combo (4D and Jakou). You'd honestly just be better off doing 2 j.C x 5's if you're going to do non-TK loop corner combos. Something like starter > houtenjin xx (S)214D~C xx CU 5C > j.C x 5 > 2C > 623D xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 xx 66C xx 3C > mizuchi would probably work in this combo's place. Depending on starter, you may or may not want to 6D~A xx 4D~A or do another rep of j.C x 5 after the second one. A modified version of this would include the 6C at the beginning and then just end with the usual 5C > (2C) > 214D~B xx 3C > mizuchi.

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Of course you would need a 100 p1 starter to do a combo that has 2 moves with repeat proration being used twice in the combo (4D and Jakou)

Wait wait wait. Jakou has SMP? You're telling me all this time that (back almost to corner) CH Rising Fang>623D>JH>CU>Corner shenanigans>623D>moar shenanigans has been unoptimal this entire time? Or is CH Rising Fang simply a godly starter?

j.C x 5 xx 66C xx 3C > mizuchi

This actually sounds pretty swag. But how the fuck do you link j.C x 5 into 66C? This ain't CP just yet.

Guys, you can combo 2AAA2B5B5C3C Hotenjin jakou. It's suboptimal, but it's there.

Really now? Please tell me why every Hazama on Vita does it anyway :vbang:.

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Wait wait wait. Jakou has SMP? You're telling me all this time that (back almost to corner) CH Rising Fang>623D>JH>CU>Corner shenanigans>623D>moar shenanigans has been unoptimal this entire time? Or is CH Rising Fang simply a godly starter?

Yes, but not super severe SMP like say, AC. You should only use it twice for the sake of putting people back in the corner. j5C also has SMP, especially on stun proration.

This actually sounds pretty swag. But how the fuck do you link j.C x 5 into 66C? This ain't CP just yet.

It works on good proration. It's not generally optimal though over tk loops. I'm not sure if it works on everyone though. In CP Hazama is stupid enough to get it off of a 5A starter though. After 3 jCx5 loops. Gorillions of damage.

Guys, you can combo 2AAA2B5B5C3C Hotenjin jakou. It's suboptimal, but it's there.

Tager onry. It is actually worth knowing how to get Hotenjin off of weaker confirms when you have less than 50 Heat, but that's another story all together.

We all know double Hotenjin is where it's at.

Of course you would need a 100 p1 starter to do a combo that has 2 moves with repeat proration being used twice in the combo (4D and Jakou). You'd honestly just be better off doing 2 j.C x 5's if you're going to do non-TK loop corner combos. Something like starter > houtenjin xx (S)214D~C xx CU 5C > j.C x 5 > 2C > 623D xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 xx 66C xx 3C > mizuchi would probably work in this combo's place. Depending on starter, you may or may not want to 6D~A xx 4D~A or do another rep of j.C x 5 after the second one. A modified version of this would include the 6C at the beginning and then just end with the usual 5C > (2C) > 214D~B xx 3C > mizuchi.

This doesn't seem to be working for me. The double j.C x5 is gimping the stun proration too much and 6C doesn't connect. I'll keep trying though.

Here's the actual stuff for the one I mentioned:

5C > Houtenjin > sZaneiga > CU 6C > 2C > delay > 5C > 6D.A > 4D.A > Jakou > 2C > jCx5 > slight delay > 2C > 4D.A > Jakou > 3C > Mizuchi. 7288 damage. I lied about the double 4Ds at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if the second 4D fails off of weaker starters, but that's what shitty non-optimal combos are all about!

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