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MetalMaelstrom

[CSE] TK Hirentotsu/TK Loop FAQ and Guide

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In this short guide, I will discuss three main things: how to improve execution on the TK loop, what you can use it for, and how many times you can do it based off of different starters.

Before I begin though, I should congratulate you for checking out this guide. The TK loop is the biggest key to making CSE Hazama have truly optimal combos, and you'd be fool for being apprehensive and refusing to learn it.


Part 1: Execution

So if you're clueless on how to do it or if you're attempting to do it but have little success, here are a few things you should read/watch:

I think the most important visual cues are 'traces' and the position of the character you're hitting. I believe I've said this before, but every C move that Hazama has (besides 6C) has a 'trace' to it. It's mostly just for flare, but if you wait until these 'traces' disappear before your next move comes out, I guarantee you'll be getting the timing right. Also, by the time you input 2C after 5C, the opposing character should be airborne at about the height of Hazama's neck/shoulders. While doing 2C, you can advance input 9214 (I do it 963214 just to make sure I input the 2 correctly. It should feel like you're making a 'J' with the stick) and as soon as the 'trace' of 2C disappears, press B while holding back. As for connecting 5C after j.214B, just watch your landing. And for the dash, if you input it just as you land or a few frames after and then press C, it should come out right. Really, the loop is all about patience. Nothing about the loop is too particularly fast, so as long as you pay attention, you should get the timing down in no time at all.

A visual representation of aforementioned 'traces' on Hazama's 5C:

BBCS_Hazama_5C.png

For an abridged version of the explanation above, c0r was kind enough to point out the most crucial parts people tend to mess up on:

Issues you could be having and their solutions:

Make sure you let both hits of 5c come out

Superjumping the tk motion will make linking 5c afterwords near impossible

Use advanced input for the otg 5c to make the link as easy as possible

Compensate for 2c's large hitstop by inputting the air special early, but hitting the button late

And finally a video from nicovideo. If you don't already have a nicovideo account, now would be a great time to start. Just click the yellow button if you don't have an account and the rest of the instructions are in English.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16877566?via=thumb_watch

If you want to get better at the TK loop fast, I'd suggest grinding the following combos ad infinitum until your hands become stumps. These combos include all of the things you need to learn to execute such as connecting dashing 5C after TK j.214B, and connecting TK j.214B after 2C-ing an airborne opponent.

  • 4B+C > 214D~D > j.6D~C > 2C > tk j.214B > dash 5C > j.C x 5 > 2C > tk j.214B > (dash) 5C > 2C > 214D~B
  • 214D~C > (dash) 6C > dash 5C > 2C > tk j.214B > dash 5C > j.C x 5 > 2C > tk j.214B > dash 5C > j.C x 5 > 5C > 214D~B > 3C


Part 2: Uses (and Adjustments)

The TK loop is a great way to tack on damage and meter gain to an otherwise low-damage combo or hit-confirm. Whenever I say 'TK loop' sometimes I don't actually mean the loop itself but just the TK Hirentotsu (that's what j.214B is called, in case you didn't know

learn to say Japanese words or stop playing anime fighters

).

The basic principle is, any time you can do an otg 5C > 2C string or if you can 2C an airborne opponent that's close to you, then you can use TK Hirentotsu to extend your combo. The 5C > 2C otg usually works after 214D~C/236D > 6C, air-throw, CH 3C, and of course CH TK j.214B. In the case that you're close to the corner when doing Jabaki but you're not sure that 6C will connect, then a dash-up delayed 5C > 2C string will allow you to loop your opponent. 2C on an airborne opponent usually occurs after a j.C x 5 string or j.6D~C otg.

Midscreen TK loop is your friend when it comes to corner carry and getting more meter. My advice to you is to be careful when doing it on the following characters: Carl, Rachel, Taokaka, and Makoto. Especially Makoto. In fact, midscreen 5C > 2C > TK j.214B will always whiff on Makoto no matter what you do. On the others, here's a way to increase your success: you have a long time before the opponent can tech after 6C (regardless if it came after level 1 or 2 214D~C). Take advantage of that by waiting to press 5C after you dash. That way, you'll be closer to them so the Hirentotsu is more likely to connect. Also, you'll notice that many of the combos in the combo thread have an optional dash before landing 2C. This dash may or may not be necessary to use on these characters (you'll have to do it for Makoto no matter what). Use your judgment and figure out if they're close enough to where you don't need to dash. You can think about it while j.C x 5 air-training them to the corner.


Part 3: Repetitions

The general rule of thumb is that you can do at least three loops and get a proper ender no matter what starter you get. As long as you're not too far into your combo, this should hold true even for low P1 starters like 5A, 2A, 2B, 3C, 6A, or even CH 214D~A. Sometimes you can only do two reps if you get a chain hit as a starter. It all depends on what normals you follow up with after your chain in.

Midscreen, you can do dashing loop three times if you hit raw level 1 Zaneiga, and four if you hit raw level 2.

Off of forward or backwards throw in the corner, you can get four reps and a proper ender. Air-throw has only three because you have to connect with only level 1 Zaneiga (though you could perhaps extend this by doing land > forward dash > gold burst > 214D~C > the rest).

6A > Houtenjin is four reps along with most other starters. If you don't do the optimal cross-under 6C after 5C > Houtenjin in the corner, then you can get five reps if you go straight into TK looping.

Two normals (not A normals) > Houtenjin is usually four as well.

The highest amount of reps currently known in any practical combo is six. That combo requires a fatal counter, level 2 214D~B starter. It does gain you 100 meter, though, so that's pretty sweet.

Again, as long as there's a way to incorporate a gold burst into these combos, then there's likely a way to use that to extend the amount of reps you can do.


Well, that's it for now, but feel free to post your thoughts, opinions, or experiences in this thread. I will update this post if I find it useful.

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I'd like to put my own combo to test "and four if you hit raw level 2". I think a fifth is possible. I'll get on training mode sometime soon. Also don't forget that max number of loops is 6. From either 1) FC flashkick or 2) CH 6B (Don't think it needs to be CH. You can probably do 6B > RC > 3C and still get 6 loops)

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I think the funniest part is that the four reps midscreen isn't entirely Tager specific anymore. I know that I've been able to do it on Jin, Ragna, Platinum, and Valkenhayn.

Edit: I'm about to test the level 2 Zaneiga midscreen four-rep TK loop combo on the cast. Will update combo thread and wiki with the character specific combo (unless it works on a vast majority of the cast which will likely be the case).

Edit 2: works on the majority of the cast, but still listed it as character specific. On Jin, Hakumen, Litchi, and Hazama, the last rep is a little weird, cos the 2 hits in 5C take a while to connect.

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Thanks, this is very useful. Go figure I was asking people about this today and then lo and behold a guide appears!

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Having lots of trouble dashing before 5C. When the dash comes out, 5C never connects. In the corner, I can hit the reps fine as long as a dash is not involved. =/ Is it really just all about delaying 2C?

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Delaying 2C helps a lot. The more you can delay 2C, the more time you'll have when doing 5C OTG. Another way to get good at doing immediate dashing 5C is to just do immediate dashing 6C, then adjust the motion to where you hit C after the second directional input (i.e., learning how to get the dash to come out first, then learning how to execute the dashing 5C without getting dashing 6C).

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Hey guys

I'm having lots of trouble getting the dash 5c in.

I'm sure i'm delaying my 2c long enough, and i can do the loop pretty easily in the corner, but whenever i get the dash in, my 5c always whiffs or i end up doing 6c.

i know i'm supposed to input the dash in advance, but i'm not too sure around what time i'm supposed to input it, since hirentotsu has a pretty long recovery.

can anyone help me out here?

if it's not too much trouble, can someone edit a video of hazama doing the tk loop and put a note on when the dash is supposed to be inputted?

thanks

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alright, thanks

i'm getting the dash more consistently now, but my 5c is always whiffing.

i think i'm just not pressing the 5c fast enough since i'm getting a few frames of dash before the 5c comes out. guess i just gotta get used to doing it with the dash now...

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alright, thanks

i'm getting the dash more consistently now, but my 5c is always whiffing.

i think i'm just not pressing the 5c fast enough since i'm getting a few frames of dash before the 5c comes out. guess i just gotta get used to doing it with the dash now...

Yeah just practice doing it faster. Once you get a rythme down for yourself, it becomes much easier.

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been playing some hazama as of late. tk serpents fang is easy enough but after i cant seem to get the 5c to connect cause either it blue beats or the opponent doesnt tech.

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been playing some hazama as of late. tk serpents fang is easy enough but after i cant seem to get the 5c to connect cause either it blue beats or the opponent doesnt tech.

That's the whole point isn't it? TKing isn't the crux of the matter at all.

You should delay 2C as much as possible and make sure you hit with both hits of 5C. Also, you need to buffer 8214B during 2C's animation.

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lol ive been practicing but still cant seem to get past first loop. i'll try delaying the 2c and see if it works.

edit: should i set a training dummy in a certain way or does it not matter

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it shouldn't matter

try landing it in the corner without the dash first, i still can't do it with the dash...maybe the psp isn't as responsive on inputs :(

there's a rhythm to it, so once u find it, it won't be as hard

good luck :)

btw, a visual cue i use is when hazama's hands are all the way to the top from 5c and the atk is about to end, hope this helps

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i'll try delaying the 2c and see if it works.

Well you have to delay the 2C if you want it to work at all.

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I've practicing the TK Loop before and i was so frustrated that didn't work at all, but is just matter of time, practice the timing a lot and it should be very easy later.

Also the TK Loop is slow, not too fast as it seems, delay the 2C just as Zeron says and be calm.

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try buffering ur 5c if u still can't do it

don't mash, mashing is bad

hit 5c after u see ur opponent hit the ground after the hirentotsu (since it's also the time ur supposed to buffer the dash)

it'll guarantee that ur 5c comes out in time

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I know this might seem weird but I find it easier to not look at Hazama when attempting the loop. At least I have more success when looking at the entire screen and glancing at the enemy every so often instead of focusing attention to Hazama himself. I also have had less trouble with the loop using this technique - right before you make the input for 5c otg link, glance at the combo counter. Watching it red beat is satisfying

and easier

this way.

Also, hold up during 2c, this is vital. The timing for the corner combo is really not that hard, and it definitely feels like you delay each hirentotsu just a tiny bit more than the last. I still have a hard time with midscreen though.

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Holding up during 2C can really throw your timing off. Well, at least for me.

I'd rather "click" up during 2C delay abit and then execute 214B.

Train this loop on Makoto, since she requires more delay between 5C 2C... not sure, but it feels like that for me.

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Am I the only one who does the loop the way I do it? For one thing, look for the red bounce marks the opponent makes when they hit the ground to dash. The way I do the loop, I immediately shift my stick position to 2 right after inputting 5c. Then I let the 5c ride out, hit C while still holding my stick at 2, then just rush through the TK motion (2147~B) and I don't get a super jump and it just tks. I've always done it this way and it works perfectly for me. I rarely drop the combo at this point. :V

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