BlazBlue Question Thread - Ask your questions here!

[mAceOfHearts]

If I'm fighting someone and I can tell they're new at the game, I'll finish the current match without holding back. Afterwards, if the match was completely one-sided in my favor, I might switch to one my subs to a) give my opponent a better chance, and b) practise a character I don't usually get to practise with.

That said, unless my opponent specifically request that I do something - ´´Please don't use Azrael``, ´´Can you hold back a little``, etc. - I'm gonna go all-out.

[StylisH]

What happened to Haku?

He went from defensive/footsie specialist to "f**k your life, yolo rushdown into a bajillion damage" in CP.

[DJ_Blactricity]

I'm not sure you understand what being truly shutdown is.  Plus, eventually learn isn't really a good way, is it?  We want to people to learn at a quick pace and have fun, don't we?  Not torture them for hours upon hours just so they learn the bare basics.  I'm not saying that you should go easy on someone so much as you should give them an opportunity to learn.

I have a great understanding of what it means to be shutdown. Do you? Do you know how it feels to lose hour after hour perfect after perfect and your only goal is to have one of your normals blocked/hit? Trying to have the round last longer than 20-25 seconds? Being afraid to press a button cause they're so deep in your head they know your every action? TD, Nineball, Minoru_Hoshi(then QickDrawMcgraw), Moy_X7 have tortured me from CT- till now. They gave me advice, but I didn't grasp it. I had to learn by being thrashed. I welcomed it though. Here's another one though. Do you know how it feels to play someone for years, and never win? How it feels to still be shutdown like you were when you started after having played them thousands of times over the years? The only reason I still play this game is because my goal is to beat him.

go play smash scrub

 

A lot of people don't want to admit that crushing somebody doesn't teach them anything, be it in games or in life.  That whole "sink or swim" approach to education is always, always for the benefit of the educator more so than the student.  You can take the time and effort to teach a kid how to ride a bike, but why bother when you can sit them on one and give them a push down a steep hill into oncoming traffic.  Maybe something will kick in halfway down and they'll reach the bottom knowing how to steer and brake; maybe they'll wipe out and leave a quarter-mile-long streak of blood into the back of a parked van.  Either way, you as the teacher didn't have to do a whole lot and get to take minimum responsibility for their failure.

Nobody is obligated to help strangers become better at a video game, especially one that's meant to be played competitively.  But shoving some newbie into a corner and wailing on them for two rounds won't teach them jack shit, and could very well lead to them getting frustrated and quitting the game.  Either make an honest effort to help new players get better or focus on increasing your win count -- don't do the latter and pretend you're doing the former.

Being crushed teaches how you to lose in the worst way. You can't learn how to win till you learn how to lose. You can only teach so much. Everything falls back on the one learning. Someone who truly has the desire to get better won't flinch at being crushed. They'll learn from their mistakes. They'll do anything, and everything they can to not let it happen again. If what they did wasn't enough. They'll try something else. Quitting isn't an option for them.

[Narroo]

I have a great understanding of what it means to be shutdown. Do you? Do you know how it feels to lose hour after hour perfect after perfect and your only goal is to have one of your normals blocked/hit? Trying to have the round last longer than 20-25 seconds? Being afraid to press a button cause they're so deep in your head they know your every action? TD, Nineball, Minoru_Hoshi(then QickDrawMcgraw), Moy_X7 have tortured me from CT- till now. They gave me advice, but I didn't grasp it. I had to learn by being thrashed. I welcomed it though. Here's another one though. Do you know how it feels to play someone for years, and never win? How it feels to still be shutdown like you were when you started after having played them thousands of times over the years? The only reason I still play this game is because my goal is to beat him.

Being crushed teaches how you to lose in the worst way. You can't learn how to win till you learn how to lose. You can only teach so much. Everything falls back on the one learning. Someone who truly has the desire to get better won't flinch at being crushed. They'll learn from their mistakes. They'll do anything, and everything they can to not let it happen again. If what they did wasn't enough. They'll try something else. Quitting isn't an option for them.

Yeah, this is my point.  It's taken you years and you still, apparently, have no chance of winning.  This guy is a poor teacher and it your reason for playing makes it sound like you're not even having fun with the game.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Yeah, this is my point.  It's taken you years and you still, apparently, have no chance of winning.  This guy is a poor teacher and it your reason for playing makes it sound like you're not even having fun with the game.

There's nothing left to teach me. Everyone learns at their own pace. I just have to continue improving and climbing the walls I run into. I'm competitive so I enjoy the fun of the competition win or lose. I obviously like winning, but the most fun I have is inching closer to players better than me. I wouldn't say I have no chance of winning. I've had chances, but I blew it so I'm just not good enough yet. I have stuff I need to improve on, but it's a large wall to climb.

[White Man]

Being crushed teaches how you to lose in the worst way. You can't learn how to win till you learn how to lose. You can only teach so much. Everything falls back on the one learning. Someone who truly has the desire to get better won't flinch at being crushed. They'll learn from their mistakes. They'll do anything, and everything they can to not let it happen again. If what they did wasn't enough. They'll try something else. Quitting isn't an option for them.

 

Somebody who really wants to be an artist and possesses the drive and dedication to achieve their ambition no matter what will be able to improve their skills if you give them a pencil and a sheet of paper and smack them across the face while shouting "DO IT OVER!" every time they make a mistake.  That doesn't mean they wouldn't improve their technique faster if you put them in a real class with a real instructor who can give them detailed feedback on how to correct errors in their work.

If you really think repeatedly beating someone without giving them any constructive advice is the best way to teach somebody how to get better at something in a hurry, then you've been watching too much shonen anime.

[Stellarcircle5]

I can vouch for this. I've hit a shitty skill plateau that's lasted the past half year and its driving me nuts. I can say that the last thing that makes me feel like I'm getting better is being destroyed by my scenes best players week after week. It's not that it makes me upset, I just sort of come to terms with the fact that they are able to read me in ways I can't yet, so naturally the matches don't feel all that even or fun. I'd rather take a step back and have them give me advice that I can apply against people who are more or less at my skill level. Baby steps, right?

I think that thrashing a new player epeatedly can be good to show someone how the game is supposed to be played when coupled with feedback, but just thrashing them over and over with no advice given? Nah man.

[Airk]

I just want to point out that "learning how to lose" is the EASIEST PART of learning this game, because you will absolutely do it, no matter HOW helpful your instructor is.   You will be beaten, often and firmly.  That is a given.  Acting like that is some sort of great gift that you get only from being bodied by your teacher is BS.  That is the least useful thing your teacher could be imparting, because it's the one thing I guarantee you will learn very quickly anyway.

[Sashi]

I don't know why you guys are pretending getting bodied means that the better player can't also be giving advice. Just play properly while telling the other guy why they're losing.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Somebody who really wants to be an artist and possesses the drive and dedication to achieve their ambition no matter what will be able to improve their skills if you give them a pencil and a sheet of paper and smack them across the face while shouting "DO IT OVER!" every time they make a mistake.  That doesn't mean they wouldn't improve their technique faster if you put them in a real class with a real instructor who can give them detailed feedback on how to correct errors in their work.

If you really think repeatedly beating someone without giving them any constructive advice is the best way to teach somebody how to get better at something in a hurry, then you've been watching too much shonen anime.

 

I can vouch for this. I've hit a shitty skill plateau that's lasted the past half year and its driving me nuts. I can say that the last thing that makes me feel like I'm getting better is being destroyed by my scenes best players week after week. It's not that it makes me upset, I just sort of come to terms with the fact that they are able to read me in ways I can't yet, so naturally the matches don't feel all that even or fun. I'd rather take a step back and have them give me advice that I can apply against people who are more or less at my skill level. Baby steps, right?

I think that thrashing a new player epeatedly can be good to show someone how the game is supposed to be played when coupled with feedback, but just thrashing them over and over with no advice given? Nah man.

 

I just want to point out that "learning how to lose" is the EASIEST PART of learning this game, because you will absolutely do it, no matter HOW helpful your instructor is.   You will be beaten, often and firmly.  That is a given.  Acting like that is some sort of great gift that you get only from being bodied by your teacher is BS.  That is the least useful thing your teacher could be imparting, because it's the one thing I guarantee you will learn very quickly anyway.

 

I never said anything about not giving them advice. I'm just against going easy on them. Playing players levels above you who can shutdown every part of a your game will force you to think and adapt. It will discourage autopiloting, and get you to think about all your actions. I had a problem with autopiloting so I think it's best to discourage it early on.

 

As far as learning how to lose, I mean actually learn how you lose. Go watch replays of yourself being bodied, and analyze yourself. Try to find your tendencies, tics and habits. See when you tend to get into bad situations. Everytime you get hit see if you could've avoided/came out on top in that situation, and find other answers to it if there any. Learn the holes in your pressure. Pay attention to how your opponent took advantage of what you notice. Critique every part of your gameplay. Analyze your opponent too.

 

[Airk]

Again, actually, it's MUCH easier to learn how you lost when you DON'T get run over by a train.

 

The difference in how easy it is to learn between:

"Okay, I clearly need to space better and not whiff 5b, and I also need to DP less on wakeup"

and

"I clearly need to space better and not whiff 5b, I also need to DP less on wakeup, and I also need to watch out for overheads after 2B, be sure to neutral tech in the corner, watch for the crossup after 5C, stay aware of his meter so I don't get caught trying to punish when he rapid cancels, remember to counter assault, find a way to avoid that tech trap, watch out for 3C low profiling my 5B, remember that jabs can't beat that move, and use 2B more to beat...."

 

is HUGE and here's a tip - the second one is going to be MUCH slower.

 

Honestly, if you're trying to teach someone, the best way to do it is actually to scrub it up.  Find a move/setup/maneuver that they're having trouble dealing with, and do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER.  Way more than you would if you were playing to win.  Because that will force them to figure out whatever you are trying to teach them.   Like, DP on wakeup EVERY SINGLE TIME until they get the hint.  Do the SAME 5B > 2B > 6B blockstring every time until they block it.  That kind of thing.  And if they don't seem to be figuring it out, point it out.

 

No one ever "went easy" on me, and it has done nothing to prevent me having problems with autopiloting, so beating someone down hard won't help there either.  In fact, it probably won't even give them a chance to autopilot because they'll be spending all their time holding AB to tech. :P

[Narroo]

Airk is correct.

 

The problem is when someone is trashed through proper play, there are too many factors to them to consider.  There's everything from tech-timing and hit confirms to resets and match-up specific elements.  You can, principle perfect someone each round never using the same trick once.  You can use a regular overhead, then a throw, then a RC mix-up, an unblockable (Some games), a frame-trap, et cetera.  How are they supposed to learn if they're only seeing each thing once, for a fraction of a second each round?

 

That's why being scrubby can be a good teaching tool; you can focus on teaching them things one at a time.

 

 

Of course, it's not bad to play seriously a bit here and there to give them a demo and taste (and also for your own sake.)  Just don't torture the poor guy.  Have a few easier matches so he can have fun too, and if he wants to learn, do a bit of scrubbin or give training mode lessons, or what ever.  Do just destroy him for the sake of winning.

[EX-Wander]

Hey guys, just bought this game on sale after I got back from EVO. I usually play a very 'lame' style in other games, focusing on projectile runaway, does that style fit this game at all? Can anybody recommend characters I might like, or ones that will help me learn the game? Thanks.

[D.R.F.]

If you want projectile zoning, you can use characters like mu or Rachel, although rachel is pretty high in terms of difficulty. Another character is nu if want swords around the screen

[StylisH]

Hey guys, just bought this game on sale after I got back from EVO. I usually play a very 'lame' style in other games, focusing on projectile runaway, does that style fit this game at all? Can anybody recommend characters I might like, or ones that will help me learn the game? Thanks.

You are a Nu/Arakune player for sure..

[EX-Wander]

If you want projectile zoning, you can use characters like mu or Rachel, although rachel is pretty high in terms of difficulty. Another character is nu if want swords around the screen

 

You are a Nu/Arakune player for sure..

 

I liked Arakune when I briefly touched upon vanilla BB. I think I'm gonna give Nu a try though, thanks for the suggestions.

[Airk]

Yeah, I think you're basically looking Nu/Mu/Rachel - I don't think Arakune is really a zoner, per se, though I just he does a lot of runaway j.2B :P

[jailhousefrog89]

you're a nu, mu, or rachel player. platinum is also interesting and has projectile zoning but its random obviously

[someonewhodied]

Heavy zoning use mu. Prediction based zoning use nu. If you want a fortress of projectiles use rachel or if you want swap between zoning and rushdown use litchi or kokonoe

[StylisH]

If you just want to run around and piss people off and they can't stop/catch you; TAO

[mAc Chaos]

 

Airk is correct.

 

The problem is when someone is trashed through proper play, there are too many factors to them to consider.  There's everything from tech-timing and hit confirms to resets and match-up specific elements.  You can, principle perfect someone each round never using the same trick once.  You can use a regular overhead, then a throw, then a RC mix-up, an unblockable (Some games), a frame-trap, et cetera.  How are they supposed to learn if they're only seeing each thing once, for a fraction of a second each round?

 

That's why being scrubby can be a good teaching tool; you can focus on teaching them things one at a time.

 

 

Of course, it's not bad to play seriously a bit here and there to give them a demo and taste (and also for your own sake.)  Just don't torture the poor guy.  Have a few easier matches so he can have fun too, and if he wants to learn, do a bit of scrubbin or give training mode lessons, or what ever.  Do just destroy him for the sake of winning.

 Most of us managed, somehow.

[Airk]

 

 Most of us managed, somehow.

 

"I managed to learn under sucky circumstances" <> "Sucky circumstances are the best way to learn"

 

If we are talking about the RIGHT way to teach someone to play, we want to find the BEST way to teach someone, not just a "a way that will work if for some reason they don't get frustrated and go play something else."

[StylisH]

"I managed to learn under sucky circumstances" <> "Sucky circumstances are the best way to learn"

 

If we are talking about the RIGHT way to teach someone to play, we want to find the BEST way to teach someone, not just a "a way that will work if for some reason they don't get frustrated and go play something else."

 

I understand where you're coming from.  Teaching someone is different than just bashing on them.  But if the guy kicking your teeth in isn't giving any helpful input, it's time to find someone else.  I do feel that you shouldn't take anyone lightly, however.

[Baiken 梅喧]

So with Celica & Lambda coming to arcades (and hopefully console versions too) this increases the chances of an CP Extend? Or maybe just more dlc. I hope they have Lambda out of her armour (probably not).

[Airk]

I understand where you're coming from.  Teaching someone is different than just bashing on them.  But if the guy kicking your teeth in isn't giving any helpful input, it's time to find someone else.  I do feel that you shouldn't take anyone lightly, however.

 

I don't even know what this means; Are you trying to teach them, or are you trying to beat them? Because those are two different goals with different methods.

 

If you want to have a "real match" with someone you are trying to teach, no, you shouldn't go easy on them, but if you're explicitly trying to train them, then yes, you should, unless you are trying to suss out what they need to work on.