[AC+R] Venom Discussion Thread

[ky0n01]

Maan its sad to see 6p, 6h gone T_T. I wish 6H is fast enough to become his best AA so i could link it to combos aw yeah

[Kashell]

remember teleport stuff is gonna be happening in the corner so

corner: 2369D > 6P > 6H > P ball > 6H > 623K > j.h/j.d > 6H > P ball > dash f.5S >421 k or 236D.

Loving this combo. Pulled it off a few times in practice mode, and once or twice while facing an opponent. Had a hard time with the dash and slash, though. Whatevz. Enjoying Venom even more when using all of his moves. I really like throwing an HS Ball and then teleporting because it can close distance.

[Adelheid]

Maan its sad to see 6p, 6h gone T_T. I wish 6H is fast enough to become his best AA so i could link it to combos aw yeah

6H is a great preemptive anti-air, but it has no actual invulnerability, just a solid hitbox. Venom really is losing out by not having 6P 6H. But it's not like he can't do anything off of a 6P, just... Not that.

[Yvive]

I was able to translate the majority of the Venom changes. I'll edit this post with any updates/corrections that I find.

Balls General:

- FB Carcass Raid and Stinger Aim cause the balls that they hit to bounce against the ceiling and walls a few times. (FB DHM isn’t mentioned, but I assume it’s similar)

- Ball formation Change: While the ball formation is moving into place, it can be changed by pressing D.

- All Balls now increase the guard bar by 6. Lighting Balls are 6 x 3. Charged Balls are now 20 x n.

6HS:

6P gatling removed.

c.S ->6HS Gatling added.

Ground bounce changed to Knockdown.

Active frames reduced from 8F to 6F.

Untechable time reduced from 44F to 20F

c.S:

guard bar increase reduced from 20 to 14

6P:

New move. No details given :-/ (Probably new anti-air)

6K:

Venom's 6P from AC.

Now ground bounces on hit.

Startup increased from 10F to 15F.

Untechable time increased from 15F to 30F.

Upper body invincibility removed.

Special Cancelable frames increased (?)

Air Throw:

FRC window added to the moment when you begin to fall.

Dubious Curve:

Sliding and untechable time increased by 2F.

Slide distance shortened.

Can be canceled into Ball Summon and Teleport.

Block stun reduced from 24F to 18F

Stinger Aim:

Something about the how the move's command behaves. not sure

Double Headed Morbid:

S Version:

Now only does 1 hit.

Causes massive blowback to the opponent on hit.

Damage now 44 (changed from 17x4).

Attack level changed from 3 to 4.

HS and FB Versions:

During the movement portion, if the button is pressed again (HS for HS, D for FB) an additional attack will occur.

Teleport:

Now able to be counter hit.

Startup increased from 14F to 20F.

Recovery reduced from 7F to 1F

FB Stinger Aim:

Bounces of the wall once.

Ball will also bounce if it hits the opponent (not sure if I read this one correctly)

FB Carcass Raid:

Number of bounces increased

Tactic Arch (632146+P/K/S/HS/D):

New Overdrive, Probably has something to do with ball formations

Can be done as a follow up to Dubious Curve

Other stuff of note: Dim Bomber's notation does specify that it's needed to be done in air and Dark Angel isn't listed, but these might be misprints.

I'm fucking oblivious

EDIT: already fixed some stuff that I misread/mistyped. Mainly the Ball formation and Teleport change.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yvive

[Kashell]

Damn, some pretty neat stuff here. I wanna know more about this Tactic Arch. Thanks for posting this, by the way!

[Adelheid]

Maybe Tactic Arch will be pre-AC ball setups <_<

The changes to teleport are going to make certain setups a lot better.

Real disappointed in 6H though. AC combos = gone.

[Yvive]

If I had to take a wild guess I'd say that hitting D during the formation set-up will give the Pre-AC set ups and that Tactic Arch will give a full 5 ball set up, since it's an overdrive. (I just edited my other post to make it more obvious. Sorry, I'm oblivious sometimes )

Yeah, it really looks like they're going out of their way to kill every remnant of the CR loop

[Adelheid]

If I had to take a wild guess I'd say that hitting D during the formation set-up will give the Pre-AC set ups and that Tactic Arch will give a full 5 ball set up, since it's an overdrive. (I just edited my other post to make it more obvious. Sorry, I'm oblivious sometimes )

Yeah, it really looks like they're going out of their way to kill every remnant of the CR loop

Heh. So like the EX Venom 6321463214X but with an easier motion, then? That'd be interesting. Depending on the frame data I'd probably use it a lot.

[DaiAndOh]

I thought EX Venom had a move called Tactic Arch? I'll check, also updating first post Yvive is awesome!

[TD]

so uhh adelheid are you still making the venom tutorial or...? just curious

[Adelheid]

I thought EX Venom had a move called Tactic Arch? I'll check, also updating first post Yvive is awesome!

Oh man, in that case it's probably just exactly EX Venom's super (Creates a full formation of five lightning balls matching the formation of the button pressed). That super is amazing and lightning balls building 18 points of guard bar will make it even better.

so uhh adelheid are you still making the venom tutorial or...? just curious

I am, but I want it to be applicable for +R so I think it'd be pertinent to wait for the loctest to come out to confirm various things, so I guess it's a bit delayed... I'll resume work on it after evo, I think. If we can get confirmation that pressing D activates the old formations, I can show that off since I have Slash. I didn't play Venom when I was playing Slash and Slash was my first GG so I don't really know much about that stuff, but at least footage of how the formations work would probably be useful. I can get footage of the EX venom formation super so it'd be easy to go over the utility of that too, but I need confirmation that it's what's actually in the game. It's just more effort, but it's not hard effort since I'm already not really gonna go too much into combos since we really have no way of knowing how they'll play out in +R.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Adelheid

[Roldy]

I checked on the JP version of AC+, EX Venom does indeed have a super called Tactic Arch, which summons a full formation of lightning balls.

HYPE

[Adelheid]

Sweet. I just never knew that move's name, heh. LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL.

[Kashell]

Sweet. I just never knew that move's name, heh. LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL.

Don't you mean you can't wait to get this ball rolling? Get it? Like...ball? Pool ball? Ha?...>___> *flees*

*comes back* Anyways, this is awesome. I always wanted an attack that would create five balls at once and now I got one, each with various formations and possibilities. Now all I want is a release date... XD

[Diveman]

Don't you mean you can't wait to get this ball rolling? Get it? Like...ball? Pool ball? Ha?...>___> *flees*

*comes back* Anyways, this is awesome. I always wanted an attack that would create five balls at once and now I got one, each with various formations and possibilities. Now all I want is a release date... XD

damn between Dark Angel and Tactic Arch, looks like we're gonna have to manage our meter really well.

also:

[Adelheid]

damn between Dark Angel and Tactic Arch, looks like we're gonna have to manage our meter really well.

also:

I don't see why I'd ever use dark angel from neutral when I could use tactic arch. Dark Angel's sort of a combo move in my mind. And without 6H, with 6K only a pale imitation of what 6H was, I don't know how it can reliably be comboed into. We'll have to see.

Tactic Arch and Dubious self-cancelling to teleport are the real stars of the changelist show, for sure.

Dubious could already be cancelled to ball summon on hit. But ball summon is mentioned as being something it cancels into in the changelist. I wonder if it can now cancel to both of those on hit or block... Or if it's still only on hit?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Adelheid

[Adelheid]

New ball set gives old ball formations.

6P is old 6P. 6K looks shockingly good.

Cancel to ball set/teleport on block. aaaaa

[TD]

l am so sad that l cant watch the stream... so... sad...

[Adelheid]

6K groundbounce is so freaking high, it makes no sense and lets you get really silly stuff. I'm not worried about combos anymore.

Plus it kinda looks like everything Venom lost in non-ball stuff was made up for in everything he can do with balls.

FB stinger aim/carcass ride does indeed bounce off of blocking opponents (while putting them in blockstun), makes it kinda silly but also looks fun. FB carcass ride = have at least three balls out? Time to get in for free as the opponent is locked down awhile.

I love the way 6P hits balls forward and up. So good.

Tactic Arch can also set old patterns with D. SO GOOD.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Adelheid

[faultydefense]

dubious curve indeed tele cancellable on block

6P prolly doesn't have as much invuln as the old one but damn it looks fast

So much new stuff to work with, all my concerns are gone. Can't wait to take this to the lab

[Adelheid]

6P prolly doesn't have as much invuln as the old one but damn it looks fast

Depends on if it's the Slash version or before! I'm holding out for the #R hitbox.

~Since some people here are new to venom, the old 6P was nerfed for slash but before that it was a crazy good AA. Like, it was like Ky's current 6A.

[TittyFOFO]

Thanks for the thread Dai.

Tactics Arch has gotta be the most appropriately named move in the universe. Shit's gonna have tons of oki and reset potential if your ball game is up to par. Can't wait to see what people come up with.

Old-school 6P takes me back to happier days. Gonna miss the damage you get off a 6P in AC, but oh well.

None of this shit really matters tho, cuz I'm gonna play Justice anyway.

[Adelheid]

For a short bit over here, there was a "Guilty Gear Generations" (Slash, with #R and EX characters allowed) side thing going on over here when people were sick of AC eddie. During that time I actually played EX Venom somewhat seriously, so I am pretty familiar with silly stuff that can be done with tactic arch. If I'm not wrong, did I see tactic arch using both AC and pre-AC setups? I definitely saw some pre-AC stuff, but if you have ten ways to set it then this is gonna be straight nonsense. Sending five lightning balls at them over the course of one long blockstring to deal tons of chip and crank the guard bar to maximum... Gonna enjoy being able to do that again. Though this is kinda making me want to see some of the other stuff that EX Venom had... Not like, the terrible DP or 22H (ball charge), but certainly I'd like to see vertical dark angel, that was shenanigan central and way better for corner stuff. Also air stinger aim was crazy.

[DaiAndOh]

None of this shit really matters tho, cuz I'm gonna play Justice anyway.

....GET OUTTA HERE!

<3.

Don't you mean you can't wait to get this ball rolling? Get it? Like...ball? Pool ball? Ha?...>___> *flees*

*comes back* Anyways, this is awesome. I always wanted an attack that would create five balls at once and now I got one, each with various formations and possibilities. Now all I want is a release date... XD

Don't make me a Venom mod. I have a million and one bad puns. Stark's sig is not helping either....damnit Blade.

This primer on old Venom stuff is useful to the AC Venom only guy like me. Any quick info on what some of the best 2 ball old formations are/were?

[Kashell]

I didn't notice his sig until now. Oh, Venom...the possibilities for puns are endless.

I played with EX venom over the weekend and goodness do I love Tactics Arch. So many options at your disposal to make your opponenet cower in the corner. Loving it. I also love that flip kick attack he has, but I didn't play with it much because it seems like it'll be absent in AC+R.