[AC+R] Venom Discussion Thread

[Adelheid]

So ACPR 1.10 is a thing.

http://www.guiltygearx.com/ggxxacpr/location/

Venom changes:

タクティックアーチ

ボールの持続時間を伸ばしました。

ボールの配置が完了するタイミングが早くなりました。

Tactics Arch

Balls have a longer duration

Balls positioning is faster

In other words, the only change is a buff to a move people didn't really use. That's kinda cool.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Adelheid

[DaiAndOh]

I found the Venom JP wiki here guys! I will get to making a sticky thread, as well as a wiki update with a comprehensive change list.

http://wiki.livedoor.jp/ggxx_matome/d/ACR%a1%a1%a5%f4%a5%a7%a5%ce%a5%e0%a1%a1TOP

On a side note, 2 Venom's are qualified for Arc Revo (Fino and Blackberry). N-O is playing lots of BB now.

[TittyFOFO]

I dunno if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but the shorter slide distance caused by Dub Curve can now allow for 1 rep of the DBC loop at midscreen. Mileage is gonna vary a lot based on hitcount, spacing, and the other character's hitbox size tho.

Also, Tactics Arch formations are affected by the D button too. P~D gives you a straight line of lightning balls angling up at about a 40 degree angle. S~D is kinda funky looking and hard to describe. H~D is just like P~D, but it angles down instead. K~D gives you a cross formation.

FB Carcass Raid will bounce until it hits something or runs out of stage. Kinda silly when fully charged, cuz it gives you a bouncing wall of death lol.

[DubiousCurvLoop]

You have a Vita and +R, don't you?

[TittyFOFO]

[DaiAndOh]

I got to play ACR!

Something of note, c.S 6k Carcass executes differently than I thought. In order to do it, you start charging immediately after inputting the 6k (similar to 6hs Carcass in AC). Not sure what exactly I can test though given how much I can't play on pad.

[Raurik]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of Venom's changes/tech given that the game is now available for the Vita. I guess everyone is playing it instead of coming up here. lol.

I'm new to the forum as of about 20 minutes ago, but I was loving this thread and wanted to share a few things I found. I have no idea if they're old or new cause I never followed Venom that closely, but I've started watching a bit recently and.. okay now I'm rambling. Here's 3 combos that work. Please go easy on my notation. I'm not the biggest fan of GG style notation, but I'll do my best. :D

(all from left side & all combos were performed on Ky Kiske. None of them have been tried on anyone else.)

Difficulty ****

Damage 93

c.S(3) > 6K > 214D > 6HS > 421H xx 623K > mixup

With this I was trying to get two balls on screen and use his new teleport cancel to be right on top of the opponent for a mixup (without using any balls yet). This leaves you right above the ground and since the teleport has almost no cooldown now the option of doing a 236D or j.K for IOH or landing immediately and grabbing them as they get up for more shenanigans. It puts you right on top of them to do whatever you want. This combo was really hard (especially on the Vita pad) because it's really finicky about spacing for the 6H to hit in time so it's not techable and when that works, having the distance right so that the 421H doesn't whiff. The beautiful thing about it though is that if 421H does whiff then the teleport won't come out so you won't be unintentionally sacrificing yourself to Eddie with this.

Difficulty **

Damage 110

c.S(3) > 6K > 214H > 6K > 623K > j.K > j.S > ???

I'm just not familiar enough with Venom or his mid-air combos to end this right. All of this works, but I'm not really sure what to do after it. perhaps instead of j.S I should try j.H to take them down some because once you touch ground (at the ??? point) they're way too high to hit with "6K" or "c.S(1 or 2) > 6K" which is what I was hoping to hit with. This one's not hard at all and it's 110 damage for zero meter and builds 25% meter. Seems like it might be useful. ESPECIALLY for those of us that can't get CR loops for the life of them!! CR loops frustrate me to no end...

Random Tactical Arc Teleport Nonsense

for P version you teleport to D (>D is same)

for S version you teleport to K (>D is same)

for H version you teleport to S (>D is same)

for K version you teleport to H (>D is P)

for D version you teleport to H

One thing I thought was a fair mixup was..

c.S(3) > 6K > 421P > Tactical Arc P

as soon as the Tactical Arc animation ends do your teleport and you'll be right behind them. Throw them whichever way you want then...

(from grab) > Dubious Curve > Teleport

By using the billions of different places your teleport can come out of (see the list above) one can move around for mixups while the enemy is plastered against the floor by DC. All while there's 5 lightening balls around to be shot at any time you feel. It's pretty awesome.

More combo related nonsense with Tactical Arc!

Difficulty *

Damage 114 - 115

c.S > 6K > Tactical Arc S > 5P > dash jump > j.K > j.S > j.H > 623H

Doesn't seem worth the meter, but it is pretty awesome looking. I imagine this is what it'd look like if Venom could combo after his Instant Kill.

If you're in the corner the previous combo can be altered so that instead of dash jumping up to catch the opponent one can just run in with a 6K for a normal ground bounce and combo further from that.

Don't know if any of this is worth much, but I wanted to contribute something to what's been a pretty fun read so far. :D

Edited June 3, 2013 by Raurik

[DaiAndOh]

Stuff

Well between a lack of Vita owners, and many stick players...yeah.

That said, with regards to combo 1, 95% sure based on videos you can add a little extra by inserting 6k>Carcass (2,8S), then going into 6k>421HS.

Now that I see CR loops frustrate you, I think they are easier from my limited experience. I did 6k>Carcass on a Vita pretty quickly, and I play on stick (and hate Vita pad too). And no, I'm def not a CR loop god...or even good at it.

Tactic Arch Teleport info is very good! I'll be sure to add that to the wiki soon! Thanks a lot!

[shtkn]

I dunno if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but the shorter slide distance caused by Dub Curve can now allow for 1 rep of the DBC loop at midscreen. Mileage is gonna vary a lot based on hitcount, spacing, and the other character's hitbox size tho.

Also, Tactics Arch formations are affected by the D button too. P~D gives you a straight line of lightning balls angling up at about a 40 degree angle. S~D is kinda funky looking and hard to describe. H~D is just like P~D, but it angles down instead. K~D gives you a cross formation.

FB Carcass Raid will bounce until it hits something or runs out of stage. Kinda silly when fully charged, cuz it gives you a bouncing wall of death lol.

alternatively:

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Venom_(GGACR)#Ball_Formations

[TittyFOFO]

Playing on the Vita taught me one thing about Venom: you should prolly focus on your ball game and fundamentals if you wanna hang with the big boys in +R. New combos may be kinda pretty to look at, but they sure as hell don't do damage.

[DaiAndOh]

Playing on the Vita taught me one thing about Venom: you should prolly focus on your ball game and fundamentals if you wanna hang with the big boys in +R. New combos may be kinda pretty to look at, but they sure as hell don't do damage.

Curious...have you actually played people with +R? You may be the only person in America who done so.

Looks like most damage comes from 2D, Stinger FRC combos and DBC loops. Gotta be cranking that guard bar good for big boy damage....

[Raurik]

Combo 1 was meant for having two balls on screen to begin mixups. I wasn't as worried about damage. What's great about it is it puts you directly on top of your opponent. HOWEVER I totally had a type-o. I meant to have 421H xx D for slash formation. The regular H positioning looks awful and isn't worth much.

c.S(3) > 6K > 214D > 6HS > 421H(>D) xx 623K > mixup

Here's how Venom is positioned after it. o=opponent, V=venom, *=ball [ (*) means lightening ]

--(*)

__o*V___

If you input the back-grab you'll get it. No walk up necessary.

Also, freaking CR loop isn't a cancel!!! I've been thinking this entire time you had to cancel 6K into CR. After several hours banging my head against the internet I watched a video of someone doing it and noticed 6K's animation had played from front to back. I went to training, tried to link CR after 6K, immediately got it and felt like an idiot.

Corner Carry Combo!!

Difficulty *

Damage 129

c.S(3) > 6K > 28S (NOT CANCEL. lol) > dash jump > j.K > j.S > j.H > j.D)

On a side note, the best damage I've been able to get is 167 in the corner. What is considered "big boy" damage for GG?

Corner only

Difficulty ***

Damage 167

Meter 75%

c.S(3) > 6K > 28S > DASH > c.S(1) > 6K > 28S > DASH JUMP > j.K > j.S > j.H xx 236D> 6K xx Dark Angel > DASH JUMP > 236H

All of that meter seems wasteful though as a j.D instead of 236D puts you at 140ish.

On the flip-side I took the teleport locations from Tactical Arc one step further and mapped out which balls have priority when Venom goes to teleport on top of the Dustloop Wiki's ball formation jpgs. So, if the K ball is missing from P's TA then you'll now know where you'll end up.

Here's an example since I can't upload more than one photo per post and I'm not about to spam this thread with these pics though I have them if anyone wants them for reference. The numbers indicate which ball has priority from 1 - 5 of the balls remaining from when you called TA. Venom will ALWAYS teleport to the ball with the higher priority (smaller number).

What's REALLY interesting about the teleporting priority is that almost every single ball formation's priority appears to go in a circle, it's not some erratic pattern. What's more, the type of ball doesn't offer a pattern either. some formations are K S H D P, others are H S K P D. What I'd really like to see is how that could potentially be used with the teleport to potentially pop around one's opponent, shooting balls everywhere as one continuous combo, but I'm probably dreaming at this point!

What's your biggest damaging combo with Venom AC+ and +R? Is there a sizable difference?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Raurik

[TittyFOFO]

Curious...have you actually played people with +R? You may be the only person in America who done so.

Looks like most damage comes from 2D, Stinger FRC combos and DBC loops. Gotta be cranking that guard bar good for big boy damage....

I haven't, but it the same combo starters that used to net me 200+ damage are now leading to like 180 for a lot more effort and less consistency IMO. Not a huge drop, I'd say it means you're gonna be doing at least one more mix-up per round which gives them one more opportunity to turn things around. The ability to tag people for stupid damage from AAs is also gone now, which is a staple for all the better characters. You're right about being able to crank guard bar for extra damage, but I don't factor that in really just because Venom (and a lot of other characters) has always been able to do that.

I'll do some toolin' around later and see if I can get some real damage figures I guess.

[Adelheid]

So it's out on console now.

I actually really like his new 6P, even though I'm probably the only one. Just because, its hitbox is CRAZY low to the ground. It anti-airs extremely deep stuff he just couldn't anti-air before, even if it doesn't scrape the sky like the AC 6P does. He doesn't really get as much damage as he used to, but it prevents a lot of people from just bullying him.

By the way this character is still incredibly fun to play, been practicing dash jump combos after 6K and they are just super fun to do. j.H giving knockdown is awesome, air throw FRC is awesome, aaaaaa

Edit: Also, dubious curve loop is FREE now that there's +2 frames of stun. You can get reps of it off anything if you're in the corner. Which is good because in a lot of situations it's where your best damage is, since you can't be throwing 6H everywhere.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Adelheid

[DerQ]

Just noticed while fiddling with ball formations that the H ball and P ball on K formation should be swapped.

Edit : ... on the wiki. My bad

Edited August 8, 2013 by DerQ

[faultydefense]

just got me some +R, what'd I miss

ps.... i need me some 6P > 6K... this feels like an oversight

pps...forcebreak stinger aim is RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! i mean good.

[tataki]

ps.... i need me some 6P > 6K... this feels like an oversight

It isn't. They basically buffed Venom's close AAing and nerfed his farther AAing. Gotta get in deep for that 6P>c.S>6K...

[DubiousCurvLoop]

So it's out on console now.

I actually really like his new 6P, even though I'm probably the only one. Just because, its hitbox is CRAZY low to the ground. It anti-airs extremely deep stuff he just couldn't anti-air before, even if it doesn't scrape the sky like the AC 6P does. He doesn't really get as much damage as he used to, but it prevents a lot of people from just bullying him.

By the way this character is still incredibly fun to play, been practicing dash jump combos after 6K and they are just super fun to do. j.H giving knockdown is awesome, air throw FRC is awesome, aaaaaa

Edit: Also, dubious curve loop is FREE now that there's +2 frames of stun. You can get reps of it off anything if you're in the corner. Which is good because in a lot of situations it's where your best damage is, since you can't be throwing 6H everywhere.

Not the only one. His 6p is the same as #R Venom's 6p, except with more recovery and maybe not as gdlk hitbox. I played #R the most out of all versions and never really got used to AC's 6p, so the ACR 6p is like homecoming for me. Edited August 10, 2013 by DubiousCurvLoop

[.otter.]

Is it true that the carcass loop is less necessary in +R? I tried to play the last version, but I couldn't do that shit reliably and it stopped me from wanting to learn more basic stuff.

[DaiAndOh]

Is it true that the carcass loop is less necessary in +R? I tried to play the last version, but I couldn't do that shit reliably and it stopped me from wanting to learn more basic stuff.

Well you can only usually get in one carcass. It also feels different. However, outside of making your damage about 10-40 points higher depending on the combo, not the most necessary.

[Adelheid]

Is it true that the carcass loop is less necessary in +R? I tried to play the last version, but I couldn't do that shit reliably and it stopped me from wanting to learn more basic stuff.

c.S 6K Carcass Raid is a bit more lenient on timing than 6P 6H Carcass was since you have more time to charge carcass due to the way everything now functions and c.S having more hitstop than 6P did, so it's generally easier to do, I think. But you still probably need it to make the most out of a lot of stuff, it's just a good basic staple. Actually looping it isn't really something you have much reason to do, though - 6K is much weaker than 6H. Because of that, going immediately into dubious curve loops in the corner doesn't sacrifice much, and dubious curve loop is much easier than it was in AC.

[KJunk]

Not the only one. His 6p is the same as #R Venom's 6p, except with more recovery and maybe not as gdlk hitbox. I played #R the most out of all versions and never really got used to AC's 6p, so the ACR 6p is like homecoming for me.

Definitely agree. His original 6P was one of his really ridiculous moves, and it rounds out his poking game by covering the basic jump in/IAD approach angles. It's also strong against long pokes that hit at chest level like Faust's or Johnny's far slashes. Those would normally beat out Venom's far slash, so it gives you another way to deal with them.

Between Venom's 6P, far slash, 2S, 2D and 6H, he has a good set of pokes.

[Adelheid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxO1Lc64dM#t=40s

I think I'm in love with Tactical Arch. I can't stop using it in combos. I have more normal, non-FB ways of comboing through it, not hitting all the balls but using the rest for setup afterward, but I just really like this and I don't have infinite time to record setups with it before I leave for the airport.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Adelheid

[KJunk]

Pretty cool. To me, Dark Angel is such a strong tool midscreen because of how it pushes to the corner in addition to providing pressure. Tactical Arch may be superior in the corner though, especially if you can space out the use of the balls to use each individually and in sequence (rather than just having them all hit immediately).

The extra duration of the charged balls makes using them over the course of two separate combos very practical as well.

[Adelheid]

Yeah, I wouldn't really want to use Tactical Arch outside of a combo, but comboing through it or ending a DBC loop cancelling to it can give you really strong results just because of what all you can do with each individual ball you get.