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Litherain-XIII

[CSE] Noel Vermillion Haida Loop Tutorial Thread

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Haida Loop Notations

**Note**: All notations regarding the Haida are starting from the point of executing the loop/extension assuming you already hit the opponent with any move that chains into 3C, a stand alone 3C or any combo that allows you to follow up with haida after a j.5D was used transitioning into a situation that leads to 22B~C. All loop/extension variations of haida are guaranteed "Full Stage" corner push ANYWHERE on the stage strictly into the corner with some Oki and generally 50 heat or more. Can be combined with Assault Through corner carry options using up to 2 Reps of the loop prior to the use of Assault Through but in this case you need to be near corner on the 2nd Rep for this to work if using a 3C starter. if you are starting from a 6B > 3C then use 2 reps only. Combining the loop and Assault Through will alter your results and benefits. All Variations of the haida loop/extension work on the entire cast EXCEPT MAKOTO.

Use at your own leisure.

Examples of starting situations:

Ex 1: 3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 6A > 6C > 22B(2)> dash cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C...etc.

Ex 2: FC 4D > 623D > 6C > j.5D > Reload > 2B > 6C > 22B~C > 66 > 6A >6C > 22B(2)> Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel> 2B > 6C...etc.

Ex 3: 3C > 22B~C > 6A > 6C > 4D > 214D (Wall Bounds) > 6C(2) > 22B~ (whiffs untill it hits opponent) > dashing 2B >6C > 22B(3) > dashing 2B > 6C > 22B(3) > dashing 2B > 6C.. etc

Also when doing the loop or extension make sure to whiff the first 22B when "22B(2)" notation is shown.

IF YOU NEED A DEMONSTRATION AND HAVE A PSN ACCOUNT YOU CAN FRIEND REQUEST ME (Litherain) AND ASK ME TO DEMONSTRATE ALL INFORMATION REGARDING HAIDAS AND EXTENSIONS UNTIL I HAVE VIDEOS FOR EACH METHOD.

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Haida Loop Starters

(Video Coming Soon)

Method-1 "6A > 6C" Starter: 6A > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C...etc.

Maximun Reps: 5 (Assuming the combo started from 3C)

Damage Scale: 3.5 - 5k (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Damage with Distortion: 4.6 - 5.9k

Heat Gain: 49 - 69 (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Character Specific To: Ragna, Valk, Hakumen, Bang, Platinum, Tager, Tao, Arakune, Rachel, Carl

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Method-2 "2A > 6C" Starter: 2A > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C...etc.

Maximun Reps: 5 (Assuming the combo started from 3C)

Damage Scale: 3.4 - 4.5k (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Damage with Distortion: 4.5 - 5.5k

Heat Gain: 48 - 66 (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Character Specific To: Tsubaki, Relius, Lambda, Mu-12, Jin, Litchi, Hazama, Noel (Technically Universal to all characters except Makoto)

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Method-3 "6C > 236A" Starter: 6C > 236A > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C...etc.

Maximun Reps: 5 (Assuming the combo started from 3C)

Damage Scale: 3.5 - 4.9k (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Damage with Distortion:4.7 - 5.8k

Heat Gain: 47 - 66 (Depends on how many reps included, how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Character Specific To: Tsubaki, Relius, Lambda, Mu-12, Jin, Litchi, Hazama, Noel (Technically Universal to all characters except Makoto)

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Haida Extension

(Video Coming Soon)

The Haida Extension is an alternative method to apply the haida loop on the characters that the "loop" technically doesnt work on. Instead for these characters you will use this method to make up for the loop due to their hitboxes being bigger when being hit with reps from the haida shots that causes the loop variation to fail such as the following: 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 2B > 6C...etc.

Haida Extension: 3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel > (Insert Haida Loop Starter) > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > 5D > 236A > Dashing 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > Combo ender of choice.

(When the last 2B > 6C connects and you are about to go into a combo ender it helps to double dash after the last 22B that comes just before this situation occures to help with spacing and also super jump 5D as well where normally the extension will put you at a space where you may whiff your j.5D due to spacing this can also be applied to the "loop" method as well)

Damage Scale: 3.4 - 4.3k (Depends on how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Damage with Distortion:4.7 - 5.2k

Heat Gain: 48 - 64 (Depends on how the combo was started, and maniputated if near corner)

Character Specific To: Valk, Relius, Hazama (Technically Universal to all characters except Makoto)

**Note**: When using this method dont forget that you will be using 236A relatively early. After the Haida Extension is used, when attempting to finish the combo do not use another 236A it will kill the combo on the spot. Also if you are using the Haida Loop "6C > 236A" as the starter of the combo then it is not advised to use this method on the character. If this is ever the case when using the "6C > 236A" starter just use one rep and got into a combo ender of your choice to save your combo from dropping should this situation occur. Otherwise refer back to the other combo starter methods that can be used instead of "6C > 236A" and disregard this note.

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Haida Loop Specifics

(Under Construction)

Valk specific Haida Loop: 3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 6A > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 6A> 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 66A or 662B > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.5d > d.6B > d.6C > d.5B > d.5C > d.236D

Damage Scale: 4.3 - 4.9k (Asuming the combo started from 3C)

Damage with Distortion: 5.3 - 5.8k

Heat Gain: 65

**Note** Combo can be changed and manipulated into a different combo after using Haida Loop. Best results:

Damage: 5.2k

Damage with Distortion: 6.1K

Heat: 72

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Rachel / Tager specific Haida Loop: 3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66A > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 66A> 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 66A > 6C > 22B(2) > dash cancel > 66A> 6C > 22B(2) > 66A or 662B > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.5d > d.6B > d.6C > d.5B > d.5C > d.236D

Damage Scale: 4.7k (Asuming the combo started from 3C)

Damage with Distortion: 5.7k

Heat Gain: 59

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Side Notes

(Under Construction)

All Haida Loop/Extensions can be used from a 6B combo starter and 214A.

If you start from a 6B, the maximum number of reps is 4.

To date, the highest recorded damage from a combo using the Haida Loop from my personal experience was 8.3k in the corner from a FC 4D and starting from 30 heat. On average it nets 7.2 - 7.6k depending on how the combo was started and executed.

Fun Fact: the highest gold burst combo using Haida Loop recorded is 11.1k in Extend.

*Note* When doing the Haida Loop you will eventually notice that at some point the character will start to shift their position in the loop either by moving closer to or away from you each time a rep is applied. If the opponent moves closer to you and is extremely close to noel as the loop is going, this will be the indication that you will have to end the loop and go into a combo to save your combo from dropping. If the opponent starts to move away you will notice it since on most occasions it will be indicated by one rep barely hitting on the opponent by 2B barely picking them up and a late 6C hit as it will be a slower rythme to the loop around that time. To correct this issue simply double dash after that incident after the 22B(2) hits them and pick back up with 2B. You wanna double dash into a 2B to make it work and save the loop from not dropping.

**Note**in order to consistantly do the Haida Loop from the beginning of execution, spacing is necessary. the rule of thumb is that at the beginning of any combo you do regarding the Haida Loop/ Extension, after you finish hitting the 22B~C to start the loop the closer you are to the opponent the less spacing involved. the further away from the opponent you are the more spacing is need. To understand this situation, lets take a simple combo route through execution: "3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel> 6C > 236A". In this example the most cruicial part about setting up the haida loop or extension is regarding the part in execution where normally most noels would "double dash" after the 22B~C part of the combo. because of this it will most likely make the loop drop. To correct the issue you must first reconize the distance at which you hit 3C. if you hit 3C close or relatively close to the opponent, then at the time when you have to dash cancel after 22C just do the dash cancel only and do not double dash. If you hit 3C further away from the opponent only then will you most likely want to double dash to get the correct spacing so the input may look like this: 3C > 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66C > 236A. To practice this situation, go to training mode and have noel do "4D > d.5B > Reload" at starting point in stage. this will set up the max distance for a 3C situation to hit.

Here is a mini guide on the Max Distance 3C situation on what dashing is needed for each Haida Loop starter:

6A > 6C = Double Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66 > 6C )

2A > 6C = Micro Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > Micro Dash 2A > 6C)

6C > 236A = Double Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66 > 6C > 236A)

Mini guide on the Close Distance 3C situation on what dashing is needed for each Haida Loop starter:

6A > 6C = Double Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66 > 6C )

2A > 6C = Micro Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > Stay in place after the dash cancel and hit 2A > 6C )

6C > 236A = Double Dash ( 22B~C > Dash Cancel > 66 > 6C > 236A )

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Corner Haida Loop

(Under Construction)

The corner variation of the Haida loop is a difficult version to set up and use. The known ways to set this up are either a 6C(2) or a j.5C that leads to 214D or 236D. Using the loop in the corner in certain combos can potentially increase the damage by another 700 - 1500 points. It is mostly best used against Tager and Valk. however despite this it can be used on all the cast except makoto.

Examples of setups in combos: (Notations coming soon)

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Sample Combos

(Under Construction)

5A Starters

5A > 6A > 6C > J.9D > 623D > 66C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5B > d.5C > d.236D

[Crouching Hit] 5A > 2C > 3C > 22C~66 > 66C > 6D > 236A > 66C > 22B(2)> dash cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 2B > 6C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5B > d.5C > d.236D (3.5K/56)

[Crouching Hit] 5A > 2C > 5C > 3C > 22C~66 > 66C > 6A > 6C > 22B(2)> dash cancel > 2B > 6C > 22B(2) > Dash Cancel > 22B(2)> dash cancel > 2B > 6C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5B > d.5C > d.236D (3.5K/56)

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Wow, good info. I feel bad now since I was too lazy to figure out how to Haida in CSX considering I always used Haida in the previous games. Thanks for the write up.

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Wow, good info. I feel bad now since I was too lazy to figure out how to Haida in CSX considering I always used Haida in the previous games. Thanks for the write up.

Sure anytime. Just figured id go ahead and lay some papers on the table sort-a-speak on the haida stuff since it was like one of her main highlights and without it its pretty blan to play noel these days without some form of entertainment so now if you want, you can play with style!

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:3 loving it right now. BTW is the 22B supposed to hit 2 times or does the first hit whiff? I am testing it out right now and can only get 3 reps max off 3C and 6B.

And against bigger characters like Tager, wouldn't omitting 6A in [6A > 6C > 22B] allow you to do at least one more rep?

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:3 loving it right now. BTW is the 22B supposed to hit 2 times or does the first hit whiff? I am testing it out right now and can only get 3 reps max off 3C and 6B.

And against bigger characters like Tager, wouldn't omitting 6A in [6A > 6C > 22B] allow you to do at least one more rep?

the first one whiffs and the second hits. on tager omitting the 6A will actually nerf how many reps you can technically do since the likely hood of the first 22B would hit tager on first rep while potentially nerfing damage as well due to the first 22B shot out has 80% repeat poration to it so you wanna try to not hit that at all. also if you read in side notes at the bottom it says the max reps from 6b is 4 but commonly 3 is the way to go if you want consistency.

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Thread Updated with notations and side notes.currently investigationg on a haida variation on makoto. so far it looks like its somewat possible but not really worth the effort at all compared to the other variations i listed above.. will keep testing until further notice.

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Just for clarification when you say the max number of repetitions is 5 off 3C are you counting the first 22B~C as a rep? It seems that the opponent immediately techs out after the fourth rep (not counting the 22B~C as a rep). I am wondering if I am executing it wrong or the max rep does count 22B~C. This is also by far the easiest of all Haidas, with the benefits of extra meter gain and corner carry it's definitely worth learning.

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Just for clarification when you say the max number of repetitions is 5 off 3C are you counting the first 22B~C as a rep? It seems that the opponent immediately techs out after the fourth rep (not counting the 22B~C as a rep). I am wondering if I am executing it wrong or the max rep does count 22B~C. This is also by far the easiest of all Haidas, with the benefits of extra meter gain and corner carry it's definitely worth learning.

im technically counting the first 22B(2) notation as the first rep not 22B~C. i feel it is somewhat easy to do and worth learning too the heat and corner push is amazing imo. too good for me to pass up but thats just me XD

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well usually when you are about to do into the loop from a 6C, try to input 22B(1) before the opponent even touches the ground. if you need help you can just catch me on psn and i can demonstrate and help guide you through the steps

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I'm trying to get around to learning Noel.

On the method 3 starter, would it be a bad idea to move around where the 1st hit of the 22b is?

I've been trying 3c -> 22c -> dash cancel -> 66c -> 236a -> 6c -> 22b(1 & 2) -> dash cancel -> 2b -> 6c -> 22b(2) -> etc. for when I'm not next to the opponent.

Also, do the enders tend to be the same everywhere?

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