Ril I am Report post Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Copied from the loketest thread so far 6/2-3 Loketest - New j.2H: return of the old jump H from pre-Slash. Is harder to combo into. - j.236D: FRC point added ~8-9F after input. - FB Secret Garden: New FB, command is 214D, ~76F total recovery. - FB Longinus (214S~D): now causes wall stick instead of sliding. - Harder to combo after throws. - j.K-j.D no longer combos, possibly due to slower j.D. - FB Disc (236D) has longer recovery, disc now disappears if Millia is hit during the move (previously only disappeared if she was hit within first 3F). - j.D causes ground slide if they touch the ground (?), previously caused slide only on CH. - Additional time added before you can retrieve Pin (j.214S/H). 6/30-7/1 Loketest Backstep: Strike invulnerability down from 7F to 5F Jump S: Startup from 10F to 9F Guard meter decrease from 10 to 7 Jump HS: Now gatlings from jump K (YES!!!!!!!!!!) Active framess has decreased Startup from 11F to 12F Jump D: Startup from 11F to 17F Damage up from 30 to 48 Attack level up from 3 to 4 Guard meter decrease down from 9 to 6 Prorate is now 80 % Wall Bounce on hit Untechable time increased from 23f to 38f Jump 2HS: New Move c.S: Forward hitbox is bigger. 2S: Active frames increased from 2F to 4F. 2HS: Untechable time decreased from 25F to 20F Prorate is now 90 % Damage decreased from 40 to 36 f.S Can now be jump cancelled Roll: Is now in counter hit state during frame 1 - 15. Millia now retrieves Silent Force Hair Pin when rolling. Millia now becomes low stance on frame 2 (instead of frame 1) All Silent Forces: Cannot be picked up after being used for a little while. Does not glitter when you cannot pick it up. Starts glittering when you can. Untechable time increased from 28F to 33F. Recovery time has been decreased with 3F. K Silent Force: (lol what? a new hairpin?) New Move Secret Garden: The Orb now disappears if Millia gets hit. Last Shaker: Mash button command has been removed Pretty Maze (FB disk) No longer effects opponents guard bar Input motion is the same for ground and air version. Hit of ground version now starts on frame 22. FRC added on frame 6 - 8. Air Pretty Maze: Startup changed from 15 to 13. Untechable time increased from 40F to 50F Gets its hitbox from frame 12. 攻撃判定の発生保障が 12F から開始となりました。 Recovery time is now 23 frames. Longinus: Startup changed from 12F to 5F. Wall stick on hit (wasn't it like that pre-loketest?) FB Secret Garden New move Winger The last hit causes slide state Aerial winger New move Edited June 28, 2012 by Ril I am Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted June 3, 2012 Regarding this change "- j.D causes ground slide if they touch the ground" I think its a good thing, since now FB disc has more recovery, so with the slide thing, you'll get more time to setup your okizeme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoctisLuna Report post Posted June 3, 2012 So i haven't played gg too much but are the Millia nerfs really that drastic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted June 3, 2012 We don't know so far. Most of them sound "ok", but you never know. the j.k j.d nerf means we're gonna have to use different combos if we want relaunchers or just corner BnBs in general. Im VERY puzzled on how FB secret garden works, as in, whether you can control it or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ril I am Report post Posted June 3, 2012 Yeah we did lose corner carry on those combos, but since we get back old j.h that makes up for it so we'll still have ways to get knockdown. Going to have to play smarter since fb disc can't throw out randomly as a reversal to trade. This is the first loketest so I'm not exactly getting worked up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goldenrody Report post Posted June 4, 2012 I mentioned this in the main AC Plus R thread, but I think that the FRC on FB Disc is actually for the ground version, not the air version. Reason being that when you see Millia performing it in the promotional video, it looks like she's tigerkneeing an air FB Disc, but the disc ends up hitting multiple times(air disc is only supposed to hit once). So it must be the ground version. Which also leads me to believe that the animation on ground FB Disc was changed to look like EX Millia's tandem top startup(where she hops in the air), giving it more recovery. It's an interesting way to slightly nerf this move without making it too terrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted June 4, 2012 Yeah sounds pretty good, even though spending 50% for a mixup is kinda expensive, unless you're sure its gonna hit and give you the round (granted, its Millia, they ARE gonna get hit by something...but still). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud_1one Report post Posted June 4, 2012 Im really hoping that Jk, Jd doesn't combo because of the lag, cause it's really useful. besides that, the only change that could bother me is the ping recovery, the others changes seems just fine to make her more balanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stinkymonz Report post Posted June 4, 2012 All the combo-related changes, like j.K-j.D nerf, j.2H startup nerf or throw combo nerfs I'm hoping was just the lag. Losing j.K-j.D is a little worrisome, imo, because that might mean j.K is Level 1 again. All the free relaunches and safe airdash blockstrings will be gone. But then again, with j.2H you can have #R style iAD loops again, so I'd imagine eventually we have some hybrid of AC-style and #R-style combos for full corner carry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud_1one Report post Posted June 4, 2012 About j2HS.. I'm thinking that it isn't actually the Reload version, but the EX millia version, cause they were diferent, if you (accidentally) hold the button the Ex version keeps you a bit in the air while the Reload doesn't, making combos a bit harder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoctisLuna Report post Posted June 4, 2012 I hope it's just the lag also Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stinkymonz Report post Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Also, ground FB disc was totally gonna get nerfed. Vacuum + guard gauge buildup + 1000 frames of blockstun on top of all her great mixup options was really a bit much for only 25% tension. I'm glad that they are making this change (should the change stick in the final build), because it seems to add just enough recovery to make it less of a threat without the FRC. The current FB disc recovers fast enough that sometimes Millia (or perhaps just Woshige...) gets away with ending blockstrings with FB disc for free mixups. It's a really subtle nerf that may not end up a nerf, because it gives Millia more options as well; I'm having dreams of using ground 236D FRC j.K to bait lows -- something like a flashier 6K; or JI 236D (lol) FRC airdash/Turbo Fall mixups. Or maybe with the FRC now you can use it like Woshige, only it's legit. also, with the new Slash Back, FB disc might be less of a viable oki anyway. Coming back to j.2H, I'd figure if it was EX Millia's j.H they would mention it. EX Millia's j.[H] is really distinct in that opponents can immediately tech after hit, and the move stops Millia's aerial momentum. There's also no difference, I think, between #R j.H startup and EX j.H startup. Just thinking, it's obvious enough that Japanese Millia players would notice such differences. Edited June 4, 2012 by stinkymonz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud_1one Report post Posted June 5, 2012 If i'm not wrong Millia's ex JH only stops in the air if you hold the button, otherwise is pretty similar to the #R one., well we just have to wait. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ril I am Report post Posted June 5, 2012 These are only the first loketest changes so nothing isn't final yet. I would take this test as a grain of salt for now though we should see overtime. I'll edit the OP on the next loketest changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdWORLD Report post Posted June 27, 2012 Since FB 236D is nerfed, would Secret Garden FB be her new Oki tool? Seeing as there were a lot of matches that required you to use FB SG (IE Potemkin) in Vanilla AC, I imagine with the new FB might make SG more of a viable wake up option over FB 236D as it's cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Ok loketest #2 changes: Change list Backstep: Strike invulnerability down from 7F to 5F Jump S: Startup from 10F to 9F Guard meter decrease from 10 to 7 Jump HS: Now gatlings from jump K (YES!!!!!!!!!!) Active framess has decreased Startup from 11F to 12F Jump D: Startup from 11F to 17F Damage up from 30 to 48 Attack level up from 3 to 4 Guard meter decrease down from 9 to 6 Prorate is now 80 % Wall Bounce on hit Untechable time increased from 23f to 38f Jump 2HS: New Move c.S: Forward hitbox is bigger. 2S: Active frames increased from 2F to 4F. 2HS: Untechable time decreased from 25F to 20F Prorate is now 90 % Damage decreased from 40 to 36 f.S Can now be jump cancelled Roll: Is now in counter hit state during frame 1 - 15. Millia now retrieves Silent Force Hair Pin when rolling. Millia now becomes low stance on frame 2 (instead of frame 1) All Silent Forces: Cannot be picked up after being used for a little while. Does not glitter when you cannot pick it up. Starts glittering when you can. Untechable time increased from 28F to 33F. Recovery time has been decreased with 3F. K Silent Force: (lol what? a new hairpin?) New Move Secret Garden: The Orb now disappears if Millia gets hit. Last Shaker: Mash button command has been removed Pretty Maze (FB disk) No longer effects opponents guard bar Input motion is the same for ground and air version. Hit of ground version now starts on frame 22. FRC added on frame 6 - 8. Air Pretty Maze: Startup changed from 15 to 13. Untechable time increased from 40F to 50F Gets its hitbox from frame 12. 攻撃判定の発生保障が 12F から開始となりました。 Recovery time is now 23 frames. Longinus: Startup changed from 12F to 5F. Wall stick on hit (wasn't it like that pre-loketest?) FB Secret Garden New move Winger The last hit causes slide state Aerial winger New move Edited June 28, 2012 by Diveman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ril I am Report post Posted June 28, 2012 OP edited. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stinkymonz Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Hm? Input motion same for ground and aerial FB disc? How was this different than before? Re: Longinus, you mean in vanilla AC? It slides in AC, it still means it's corner-only combos so the change seems rather cosmetic really. Intriguing changes. Aerial Winger? New hairpin? Roll picks up pin? Pin can't be picked up immediately? Faster air FB disc? Secret Garden disappears on hit? Backdash nerfed? Far slash JC? I... I don't know what to make of it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdWORLD Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Hm? Input motion same for ground and aerial FB disc? How was this different than before? Re: Longinus, you mean in vanilla AC? It slides in AC, it still means it's corner-only combos so the change seems rather cosmetic really. Intriguing changes. Aerial Winger? New hairpin? Roll picks up pin? Pin can't be picked up immediately? Faster air FB disc? Secret Garden disappears on hit? Backdash nerfed? Far slash JC? I... I don't know what to make of it all. sounds like a big fat nerf IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted June 30, 2012 I don't think they mentioned the way FB secret garden works, maybe that one doesn't dissapear? because if so, I'd gladly burn 25% tension to make sure that they won't block the coming mixups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stinkymonz Report post Posted June 30, 2012 OK, so K pin is a sharper angle than S pin -- something like 30 degrees. New FB disc animation looks like it recovers just as fast as the current FB disc. It lost guard-bar but gained an FRC... Combo mechanics are very different. j.2H has way less untech than #R version; 5S 2H iAD j.P j.H used to knockdown in #R iirc. Having a buffed aerial FB disc and aerial Winger I guess means, at the cost of tension, you have the option of easymode knockdowns. Tensionless combos look like they'll be just as specific as it is now. Brr. Every iteration since Slash, Millia combos get completely reworked. Also, does it seem like her damage is crazy bad now for some reason? Yeah, I am inclined to think they are generally nerfing Millia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goldenrody Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Most stable combo I was seeing in last night's stream was 5s2h j.sh ADC j.2h land 5s2h j.h ADC j.2h pin land 6h. Damage seemed pretty similar to the combos we use all the time in vanilla AC. A lot of people were also experimenting with the 5s2h IAD j.p j.2h variants, but those all did terrible damage since j.p is used so early. The last notable combo I saw was a corner only one: 5s2h pin j.d(wallbounce) into rejump. It might do good damage but I didn't see anyone finish it... I didn't think much of it before, but Longinus change from a groundslide to wallstick is actually pretty significant. People on stream were having tons of trouble comboing off of corner Longinus. Seems like you get even less time than before to follow it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted July 1, 2012 So basically no real difference between using AC FB disc and the new one? like, you can still get at least 2 mixups off that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rele Report post Posted July 1, 2012 Pretty much yes. I also saw another interesting application, one Millia used the FB disc as a pressure reset/IOH. For example 2K 5K (blocked) 236D FRC j.K, which is a 10-12f overhead for 50 tension. I recorded a bunch of videos, unfortunately the video quality is a lot worse than it should have been (set the recording to 30fps, looks like 10... and the sound quality is completely ass so I removed it altogether). If you're interested though I could compile some Millia stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stinkymonz Report post Posted July 2, 2012 ^ Awesome. And if it still appears on frame 4 (and doesn't disappear on hit) then you have a somewhat costly but rather braindead easy burst/DAA bait that is otherwise an awesome pressure/mixup reset! Also, huh, didn't realise FB disc goes active ~20F faster than in AC. Maaaaybe you can react to like, Bridget/Robo-Ky wakeup delay, and FB disc [FRC] at the last second for quick oki. Most stable combo I was seeing in last night's stream was 5s2h j.sh ADC j.2h land 5s2h j.h ADC j.2h pin land 6h. Damage seemed pretty similar to the combos we use all the time in vanilla AC. Yeah, managed to catch a Millia who did that off a throw, it actually seemed to do more damage than AC relaunch throw combos. The last notable combo I saw was a corner only one: 5s2h pin j.d(wallbounce) into rejump. Yeah, also saw that. It kind of reminds me of some of her Slash combos actually. Seems like they really are integrating all her different combo styles into one spiffy character. As always, the apprehension from all the new combo variables comes from not knowing how her average/max damage and knockdown capabilities will work out with all the tweaks. And there's so many of them. Like I don't remember seeing anyone really playing with the new f.S jc. Longinus is purely for knockdown/setup now I guess. Buff the startup so it works from longer range/different pokes but diminish the ability to combo off it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites