I-no san's Accent Core Plus R changes

[Pestilence]

I-no players have been doing that for the past 8 months...I highlighted that FB dive was really good back when I gave loketest reports.

First time I've seen it.

Haven't been able to watch many new vids since October of last year :/

[mynus]

Anyone get the vita version today? Im dying I need to play this...fuck!

[RoBoBOBR]

- can now airdash twice per jump, dashes travel further and gain more tension

- f.S - recovery 6F -> 1F, forced prorate 50% -> 60%

- 6P - now has forced prorate 90%

- 6H - now a 2-hit attack, lvl 4,5, 7F start-up, 1(7)8 active, 17F recovery, SD -6, 1st hit staggers opponent on ground CH (max 43F), 2nd hit floats oppponent on hit (untechable for 28F)

- D - start-up 25F -> 29F

- DAA - now prorates 50%, wallbounces opponent on hit (untechable for 28F on ground hit)

- 2S - recovery 23F -> 17F

- air throw - range 96 -> 80

- S Stroke the Big Tree (41236S) - now prorates 80%, ground hit causes stagger (MAX 38F)

- H Stroke the Big Tree (41236H) - jump-cancellable, prorates 90%, ground hit causes float on standing (28F), second FRC point 22-24F -> 26-28F,

- K Sultry Performance (j.236K) - untechable timve 17F -> 30F

- S Sultry Performance (j.236S) - now prorates 80%

- H Sultry Performance (j.236H) - damage 20x3 -> 25x3, passes through opponent from 10F onwards

- FB Sultry Performance (j.236D) - damage 14x5 -> 20x5, now has forced prorate 80%, strike invincible during 6-9F when not cancelled, requires and consumes a jump option

- FB Antidepressant Scale (214D) - new FB, launches 2 notes. damage 12x6-14, block any, FRC point at 18-19F, start-up 15F, SD +10, 42F total duration, 2nd-14th hits have hitstop 6F, after note is released, gains additional hits after 30F, 31F, 39F, 40F, 49F, 50F, 59F, 60F

- FB air Antidepressant Scale (j.214D) - new FB, launches 2 notes. damage 12x6-14, block any, FRC point at 16-21F, start-up 13F, SD +9, 42F total duration, 2nd-14th hits have hitstop 6F, after note is released, gains additional hits after 30F, 31F, 39F, 40F, 49F, 50F, 59F, 60F, fastest possible attack performed from standing has startup of 16F, 36F total duration

~~~ J wiki~~~

- c.S - extended range at which attack is considered "close"

- f.S - forced prorate 60%

- H - bigger hitbox

- 2S - a bit more range

- Chemical Love - better hitbox

- vertical Chemical Love - less recovery, more untechable

- H Sultry Performance - travels faster

- FB Sultry Performance - can cancel at any time

----

done by frame data comparison and j wiki info. Changes labeled as "Jwiki" could not be confirmed by DL ACR frame data.

Edited June 26, 2013 by RoBoBOBR

[mynus]

That change/nerf to her air throw from 96->80 dots seems only on paper. She's still tossing ppl all over the place from distance.

How would they justify making the second best air throw range into the games worst? Especially since her J.H is super unsafe on whiff and she is in ch state until landing...must be a typo.

I will ask some friends in Japan to check this out.

[RoBoBOBR]

this easily can be a typo, i don't have the mook and thus had to use DL wiki data.

[TheRealBobMan]

2S has EVEN MORE range? On top of the better recovery? *Drools*

I remember seeing that air-throw range nerf mentioned before, but it wasn't listed in the wiki so I was sort of confused on whether it was still in.

Also, don't forget her guts was dropped from 2 to 1.

[mynus]

It's listed in the mook.

[9TNine]

It's listed in the mook.

I think they're doing it because, combined with the dash, it's amazing at 96. I would speculate the dash is what counterbalances the now crap range.

That bit about FB Sultry requiring and consuming a jump option seems wrong through, as in AC you can use it after a double-jump and it restores her air options...

-9

Edited May 13, 2013 by 9TNine

[TheRealBobMan]

It still restores her jump options. They probably just don't want you to be able to airdash > airdash > FBdive > cancel > airdash > airdash. We can still double jump or airdash > FBdive since we have more airdashes now, so it works out.

Although I think I've seen people use it out of a double airdash, so I don't know.

Actually, in AC you can start it, cancel it, get the restored jump options, and use it again. Normally you can't use it again after you've used it instead of canceling it. I wonder if you can cancel it on the last possible frame (like 50 something, after you've already gone way into the air), and still use it again before touching the ground. : V

Hang on Bridget, I'm going to outrun you to the top of the screen. Try and hit me. JUST TRY AND HIT ME.

[bojack]

Where are my fellow I-no fans?

I have AC+, can't do anything fancy at the moment. Just some dash-in combos/mixups into her specials. Am I gonna have to re-learn this in AC+R? Asking because I had to when I went from X2R to AC+. Also, did everyone get 2 air dashes in AC+R or is she one of the few?

[InWithTheAshes]

I - No was the only Character to gain an extra airdash in +R I believe.

[TheRealBobMan]

She plays roughly the same. She has the same mixup game (though 5D is slower), however, HCL's hitbox got buffed and she got FB note, which help out her neutral game. There's also faster recovery on f.S and 2S, and FBdive has a few frames of invulnerability when it goes active.

[Essay]

From playing around with a community member's Vita copy for a few minutes last night, I can confirm the increased c.S-registration range, and bigger hitbox on 5HS. Not only could I actually hit 2K 6P 5HS on Sol in the corner (even if I gave him a bit of space), I could occasionally get c.S>6P>5HS to connect off of a hover dash j.HS. For that to happen, it seemed like I had to gattling into 5HS late (delayed timing) so that Sol's hurtbox had a few frames to drop down. It's definitely much improved over its old habit of always wiffing on Sol's stubby legs.

FB Note is fun. Like the normal notes, it builds extra hits as it travels, but point blank, one note is still 6 hits and (at least if TK'd) gives you time to mix up. The thing is that if you don't press up or down, the second note comes out literally on top of the first and you get twice the hits (in the same amount of frames I think) and crank that guard-bar. Otherwise, as you've probably seen, they control similarly to regular notes, just with the second note moving in the opposite direction, and each up/down input adding/subtracting vertical velocity. Just keep in mind that they cross themselves up if you try to turn them back towards each other; they don't stick back together as the doubled note unless you really finesse your inputs.

The increased length on the airdash also seems to make fast-fall VCL quite easy as well (or else, I'm way more comfortable on pad than stick and never realized it). Much joy.

Wish I remembered to try the HS Sultry Performance. Am I right to read that it will cross-through even on block? So my YOLO tk'd HS Dives might actually require some thought to punish?

[TheRealBobMan]

I got to try it last night for a few minutes on a friend's Vita. I can confirm the reduction in air throw range. Also, it doesn't seem like anything prevents I-No from using FBdive after using both airdashes.

[Essay]

Got a little more time in.

After the 3 hits of HS Dive, yeah, she crosses through. If you started far away you'll probably wind up just on the other side of the opponent, and if you started point-blank you'll end up about 2.5 or 3 character widths away.

Counter-hit S.Stroke still pops the opponent up high the same way that it does in AC+. Counter-hit HS.Stroke has a lower, lingering launch to facilitate the new jump cancel point.

In case anyone hadn't realized, her new forward airdash covers about twice distance and duration of her backwards one (so it feels nothing like Millia's). Two in a row look like they travel more than full screen. Also, as you'd expect, you can high jump and double airdash, or double jump and single airdash.

[RoBoBOBR]

DL ACR wiki was updated, so list was changed accordingly. Correction:

- f.S prorate 60 not 50%

[Horokei]

RoBoBOBR's change list has this:

FB Sultry Performance (j.236D) ... requires and consumes a jump option

But in console version she doesn't actually need a jump option (tested 2AD, FB Dive + cancel, 2AD and it works). Is it a bug or a mistake?

[mynus]

Just a mistake. Does not consume a jump option in Arcade ver. either.

[TheRealBobMan]

Yeah, the wiki needs some serious work. DQRF told me he had to fix that HCL and VCL had their sprites swapped until like a month ago, and he's a Sol main. You'd think one of us would catch and fix these things.

[TheRealBobMan]

I hate to double post, but the wiki says that I-No is in Counter Hit State out of j.H until landing. Is that true? I'm going to try to make some minor corrections during lunch breaks, but I need to know about some of this stuff that seems off. For example, 2S is low to the ground, but as far as I know it doesn't have low-profile frames like 2K and 2H. And the wiki page says 2K prorates 70% but the frame data page says 75%.

Where is the accurate shit we're supposed to get our info from so I can use that to fix this?

[Digital Watches]

What in the world is a low-profile frame? A low hurtbox is a low hurtbox.

[TheRealBobMan]

It doesn't seem to be able to duck things that you can duck with 2K and 2H. I would hope it's not the same as that head-attribute stuff they started putting in BB and P4A, but I assumed there was some sort of special difference. Why would it specify 4 frames of 2K if she's low to the ground for almost the whole move?

I'd like it if the wiki was as informative as possible so people can look up stuff and not even have to ask questions like these. Where do we draw the line for where we specify something is low profile then? At ducking overheads? Should I change it or not? I don't want the character page to say something different from the character's frame data page, which we currently have a lot of.

[mynus]

Ino is indeed in CH state throughout the entire duration of j.H, including the frame upon landing.

I have the +R mook and have been adapting/editing the wiki as well as correcting any mistakes. Thanks for pointing the 2S and 2K typos out!

The properties of low profile should probably be added to the main +R terminology page.

Edited September 4, 2013 by mynus

[TheRealBobMan]

You could super jump FBdive > j.H and recover well before hitting the ground, so is it the whole duration (which happens to be a really long time) and the frame she lands, or "until landing"? I'll check it tonight when I get home I guess.

Thanks Mynus! Keep on rockin'.

*Edit* Forgot to check it. DERP

I did mess around with 2K > 6P > Stroke(H) burst bait as a tech trap. If they don't burst but decide to tech, it's easier to deal with now that we can jump cancel, though this is really only reliable in the corner (except for on-reaction punishes to forward techs, which is sort of asking for it). I only tested characters to the right of OS in the char select screen + Pot so far since I don't have lots of time. In most cases a forward tech is easy to throw on reaction, and a back tech is catchable on prediction though the window is small, and neutral techs are super hard or probably don't work. However, in some cases neutral techs are easier to catch, and sometimes the window to throw a forward/back tech lines up when using prediction (in Eddie's case, it seems that back/neutral line up). The best case seems to be Venom. It seems the timing to catch all three is nearly the same, so he can really only tech or not tech. I can maybe do a more full writeup on it when I'm done researching this, though it's sort of silly and not in any way guaranteed. Most characters can always just tech a little later to throw off the back/neutral timing, which on top of being strict most of the time requires you to predict that they will tech. Or they can not tech and punish your j.H, which isn't good.

But yeah, if you go for Stroke(H) to bait a burst and they don't burst, resulting in you hitting OTG near the corner, throw their tech. Especially if they're Venom.

Edited September 5, 2013 by TheRealBobMan

[mynus]

if you do j.H off the screen after FB dive you should fully recover and be fine by the time you reach the ground. total move duration for j.H is like 60 something frames so otherwise you will be in counter hit state if done from a normal height jump ect.

so no, not technically ch state until landing, but in theory and practice in a match yes.