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ACR Changes discussion (5P->6K OMGWTFBROKE)

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So here we discuss changes in ACR, like nerds, because we can't play the game yet.

Changes so far:

5P

Now gattles to 6K

Damage changed to 15 + 15 to 24 + 16

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

f.S

Recovery increased from 17f to 19f.

Active frames increased from 4f to 5f.

2P

Now gattles to 6HS and f.S.

Damage increased from 12 + 18 to 22 + 18.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

2H

Now gattles to 2D

Damage changed from 20 + 20 to 30 + 20.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

2S

Startup decreased from 9 f to 8 f.

Damage increased from 18 + 22 to 28 + 22.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

jS

Now gattles to “After Jump 6+P”

Damage increased from 12 + 16 to 23 + 16.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

3P

Total recovery increased by 3f.

Now has two hits,

Damage gone from 24 to 24 + 11

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

”After Jump 6+P”

Damage from 8 + 10 to 17 + 11.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

6K

Damage up from 18 + 22 to 28 + 22.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

6HS

Now +4 on crounching hit if you hit as soon as the hit of the move has started.

Now floats closer to the ground on air hit, making it easier to combo from.

Prorate: 90 %.

6P

Upper Body Inv on second half of the move removed.

5HS

Counter hit = ground bounce

Untechable time now 24 f.

FB (Move 4 charge 6 D) FB曲鎖撃

New move

Normal Axl Bomber

Guard recovery 7 f shorter. ガード硬直時間が 7F 短くなりました。

Guard balance decrease changed from 10 to 20.

Can be guarded crounching, standing and in air. (no longer a overhead)

FRC added (f5-8).

J 63214 S Kokuugeki

Now sends the opponent higher vertically on hit.

63214 HS

No FRC.

Rensengeki

The chain now extends faster.

S-Benten

Startup decreased from 5f to 4f.

Up- Followup after Rensengeki曲鎖撃

Recovery increased from 35f to 40f

Unblockable move (4 charge 6 HS

Cannot be used when the opponent is in slide down state.

Now travels across the WHOLE screen.

Moves faster.

Recovery decreased from 50f to 30f

Counter hit state increased 被カウンターヒット時間が延長されました。

623P

Is now a guardpoint move (aka gets executed even if Axl gets hit)

No longer has any invicibility.

You can now guard the hit.

Startup decreased, from 16 f to 8 f.

Recovery time changed from 27f to 17f

Hitbox behind Axl removed アクセル後方部分の攻撃判定が削除されました。

Now launches your opponent even more on counter hit カウンターヒット時の相手の吹き飛びが大きくなりました。

Hitbox of Axl during the GuardPoint portion of the move has been increased.

2363214 HS 百重鎌燃

Changed so that all hits now connect (more often)

Watches' armchair theoryfighter first impression:

Looks like whoever's balancing R really likes Axl and really hates gimmicks. Optional 2-hit chains and the new gatlings (Seriously that shit is gonna be overpowered) basically stack up to mean that Axl has even more ground-to-air control (especially if doing one-hit chains means less recovery, but even being able to counterhit more readily on AA will be a big win) and even more disgusting abare for hitting someone who jumped. I'm guessing that if you're jumping against Axl in ACR, you pretty much done dropped the soap, good luck next round.

It also looks like they're trying to get rid of some of the more gimmicky Axl mixup, like JI H Raei and TK bomber, which makes me sad, but isn't really a serious nerf, since Axl's high-low mixup was always shit on offense anyway. Gimmicky players will learn to tickthrow and frametrap and probably do better in matches overall. Meh. I personally am going to abuse the shit out of ambiguous 2-hit 2H and j.S if I can find any way to do so. Probably get used to using your 6H, a jump-in, your dust, or maybe raei if you really need an overhead. To be honest, you're not losing much utility, just a little variety. And the BOMBER FRC of course.

As for the new FB: I can see this going a few ways.Best case: Remember those combos you couldn't get because you hit a f.S or 2P, or just straight up hit from too far away to get a rensen FRC to hit? Wellp. Almost full-screen ground abare buff to complement the almost full-screen air abare Axl already had and got even more of from the new gatling.Worst case: Basically does the same thing as rensen FRC in a combo and is a very situational anti-air that's probably outdone by Axl's already extensive air control from the ground in most cases. Boring but not bad. Either way this is probably going to be more of a combo extender/launch than a zoning tool, just because it barely fills a role Axl doesn't have something better in his kit for. I'm sure a lot of people who aren't very confident with their pokes will use it as a more "general-purpose" anti-air at that range, but I doubt it'll be what you see people use in high-level play to anti-air most of the time, unless it does something crazy like prorates > 100%. What it WILL probably be good for is beating invincible stuff that twitchy people throw out (Like kokuugeki and to an extent rensen already do, but slightly better due to being probably faster and having more space coverage.)

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Just played around with 2H a bit in training mode. If you can trick them into blocking only the first hit of it while in the corner, it's easy to link the second hit's stagger into a 5K -> whatever.

Yeah this is going to be okay.

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The way I see it... They're making Axl even more zoning and come to me I won't even care to attack you character.

That new gatling 5P, 6K is just the must abusive thing I'll do over and over again, I think it will lead to nice combos and then come back to the keep away game.

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I wonder if it'll be possible to combo 5P/2S/6K into [4]6D and, if so, whether or not that will actually be useful. Maybe as a follow-up for max-range 5P? Something like AA 5P -> [4]6D -> 5P -> 6K -> 2S -> whatever.

Could be good combo video fodder, in any case.

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That's actually exactly what I think it'll be good for (5P->46D), which basically means you can get a good damage combo from pretty much the whole screen away if they jump.

Like I said, don't drop the soap.

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Judging from some estimates made in AC+ training mode, it looks like - and obviously it's tough to be sure right now - at any range where you could connect [4]6D from a 5P, you could probably connect 6K instead. So it might be more for extra damage than utility, which is sad.

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5P 6K j.6P j.623D - for damage.

But if 46D connects after 5P or 6K, maybe combos into H Benten from mid~fullscreen will be possible.

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Next round of changes (thanks to Shinjin for the translations):

5P

Now gattles to 6K

Damage changed to 15 + 15 to 24 + 16

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

f.S

Recovery increased from 17f to 19f.

Active frames increased from 4f to 5f.

2P

Now gattles to 6HS and f.S.

Damage increased from 12 + 18 to 22 + 18.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

2H

Now gattles to 2D

Damage changed from 20 + 20 to 30 + 20.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

2S

Startup decreased from 9 f to 8 f.

Damage increased from 18 + 22 to 28 + 22.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

jS

Now gattles to “After Jump 6+P”

Damage increased from 12 + 16 to 23 + 16.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

3P

Total recovery increased by 3f.

Now has two hits,

Damage gone from 24 to 24 + 11

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

”After Jump 6+P”

Damage from 8 + 10 to 17 + 11.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

6K

Damage up from 18 + 22 to 28 + 22.

Does only one hit if you hold the button.

The guard meter balance of the pull back-part of the move has been reduced (x2 factor).

6HS

Now +4 on crounching hit if you hit as soon as the hit of the move has started.

Now floats closer to the ground on air hit, making it easier to combo from.

Prorate: 90 %.

6P

Upper Body Inv on second half of the move removed.

5HS

Counter hit = ground bounce

Untechable time now 24 f.

FB (Move 4 charge 6 D) FB曲鎖撃

New move

Normal Axl Bomber

Guard recovery 7 f shorter. ガード硬直時間が 7F 短くなりました。

Guard balance decrease changed from 10 to 20.

Can be guarded crounching, standing and in air. (no longer a overhead)

FRC added (f5-8).

J 63214 S Kokuugeki

Now sends the opponent higher vertically on hit.

63214 HS

No FRC.

Rensengeki

The chain now extends faster.

S-Benten

Startup decreased from 5f to 4f.

Up- Followup after Rensengeki曲鎖撃

Recovery increased from 35f to 40f

Unblockable move (4 charge 6 HS

Cannot be used when the opponent is in slide down state.

Now travels across the WHOLE screen.

Moves faster.

Recovery decreased from 50f to 30f

Counter hit state increased 被カウンターヒット時間が延長されました。

623P

Is now a guardpoint move (aka gets executed even if Axl gets hit)

No longer has any invicibility.

You can now guard the hit.

Startup decreased, from 16 f to 8 f.

Recovery time changed from 27f to 17f

Hitbox behind Axl removed アクセル後方部分の攻撃判定が削除されました。

Now launches your opponent even more on counter hit カウンターヒット時の相手の吹き飛びが大きくなりました。

Hitbox of Axl during the GuardPoint portion of the move has been increased.

2363214 HS 百重鎌燃

Changed so that all hits now connect (more often)

Notes and impressions:

  • The chains now hit once if you hold the button, as opposed to hitting once if you tap it. I like this option a lot more - it invalidates less of my muscle memory.
  • Does anyone know what the "guard meter balance" change on all of his chain attacks means? Does that mean his chains lower the guard bar more on hit? Less?
  • Axl Bomber now has an early FRC. Mindgames!
  • RASHOUSEN IS GETTING BUFFED. In exchange for losing the corner set-up after S Raiei, but still.
  • j.S now gatlings into j.6P.
  • 2P now gatlings into 6H and f.S.
  • 2H now gatlings into 2D (!).

Overall, this seems like a substantial and cool buff, though it's hard to say for sure since 1) balance is relative and 2) if his chains lower guard bar twice as fast as they used to, that's a huge damage nerf.

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They buffed his neutral game and nerf everything else and combo damage. That suckz.

- It's easier to combo from a random chain hit.

- Chains now deal more damage but eat more guard, so long combo will do less damage.

- R.I.P AB. No more + on block without FRC and datguardeating.

- I don't like rashousen changes in general. It's travel faster but startup seems the same. Unblock setup is history now. But reducing recovery is nice, ppl play defensive when they see rashou and now they will not able to punish it after jump back with FD.

- Faster rensen travel is nice. If FRC timing same that's mean his range with FRC is better now. No more blockstring into rensen frc whiff dash in and get killed.

- 623P changes are interesting. Really interesting. I mean you know that this move was unblockable? When GP starts? How to continue into 412D?

- Byakuerenshou changes are nice but seems useless.

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- Chains now deal more damage but eat more guard, so long combo will do less damage.
Note, though, that only the second hit of each chain attack eats more guard bar. The first hit is unaffected.

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Axl bomber had its GB- nerfed too. RIP long loops. Where we used to get 3-5 probably only going to get 2 max. Hoping people figure out means to get decent damage with out using 2hit chains.

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He actually still so good. Better than I though he would be.

His damage on chains make his usual combo at midscreen even more damaging. But his B-loop now less damaging. I saw B-loop after TK Bomber on Johnny:

j.623H 2S j.D j.623H 2S j.D j.623H j.623H

It takes less than half of Johnny life.

His rensen seems faster, I don't know but maybe he can always connect it from f.S.

His 2P now godly. He can do 2P f.S FB Kyoku into combo.

6H now hops lower and not so far away.

2H now gattle into 2D. It's great, nuff said.

FRC on Axl Bomber seems useless for combos. Hard to say how many advantage it does with FRC.

And his new 623P. I love it)

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Yeah, it really seems like they're trying to make his space control better at all points on the map, and in exchange they're nerfing his high situational damage. Seems reasonable to me.

EDIT: Whoa! [4]6D is really fast.

EDIT 2: Combo into Rensen -> Bomber loop doesn't actually look significantly nerfed from AC. Rensen is a lot faster. Random AA combos do a lot more damage now (about 10%, looks like). Rashousen, my favorite move in the whole game, is now maximum lulz.

EDIT 3: 2H is now a legit high/low mixup. This is awesome.

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Rashousen www. Full screen spam punish, from all Axl moves it has greatest range now. Those fullscreen tricks with rashou feints with his new ultimative space control.

But his TG still bad

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So wait, is Rensen -> 8 now a guaranteed knockdown after a short combo?

EDIT: Aww, CH Kokuu no longer pops straight up.

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3P has two hits? Which way does the second hit pull? Also, can't tell if 623P is buff or nerf.

The second hit of 3P vacuums like his other chains. I didn't see whether or not it still trips on CH.

Regarding Housobako: I, er, think it's a slight buff, since I guess we can ostensibly frame trap with it now? Horokei, do you know if Axl can activate Shiranami no Homura if the opponent doesn't hit his guard point?

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The main thing I could see as a nerf is that it's not unblockable anymore. I'm also curious as to the properties of the guard points (What frames guard, is it both high and low, etc.)

5H floorbouncing and bomber FRC are fucking bananas, by the way. Does 5H still have invuln?

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The main thing I could see as a nerf is that it's not unblockable anymore. I'm also curious as to the properties of the guard points (What frames guard, is it both high and low, etc.)

5H floorbouncing and bomber FRC are fucking bananas, by the way. Does 5H still have invuln?

I don't think 5H ever had actual invuln frames - just a high-priority hitbox. So yes?

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Priority Is Not A Thing™. It's upper-body invuln around (Like, pretty severely so, basically all but the feet) when the active frames happen as of AC
Hm! It does seem to have five frames (frames 10-15) of upper body invuln. Been a while since I checked the frame data.

No idea if it's still got those frames.

Ugh. Dustloop is literally *the worst* right now. Why won't it see newlines when I edit?

Dustloop is literally Hitler.

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About 623P

It has ~10 frames of autoguard part and ~8 frames of startup on hit part. It does ~ -2 on block.

He can cancel his 623P to FB during "hit" part even without attack to GP.

Still 623P doesn't guard low

About FB Kyoku

~8-10 frames of startup

Well, that move can comboed from f.S, 5H and 2D.

But for example 2D FB Kyoku doesn't has any follow-up cuz opponent recovers at the same time with Axl.

After f.S and 5H, Axls try 6K - fail, 5S - fail due to range of c.S, 5P - mostly fail due to whiff on second hit of 5P so they all drop this combo, 2S - no one does not even try it.

But well. Rensen is faster now so it's always can combo from f.S and Axl got those 2K f.S, 2P f.S and 3P f.S combos into rensen.

About Bomber

With FRC he cancel about 12-14 frames of recovery

I think that move lvl5 now so it's 0 on block without FRC. I don't saw that move on block though

One hit 3P CH float lower. Pretty much #Reload style. Hard to combo.

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Is 3P still plus 2 on block after the 2nd hit? That would be a pretty sick pressure tool.

Also can FB kyoku link to jH in the corner? Ie ground confirm > fb > jH jD bomber?

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Is 3P still plus 2 on block after the 2nd hit? That would be a pretty sick pressure tool.

Also can FB kyoku link to jH in the corner? Ie ground confirm > fb > jH jD bomber?

Regarding 3P: It's tough to say for sure since frame data wasn't supplied. My first instinct is to say "No," but that'd make 3P a lot worse, so who knows?

Regarding FB Kyoku: the launch height looked high enough that you could, but I never saw anyone do that specifically.

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