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I-no vs Venom

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:VE: VENOM MATCHUP INFORMATION Poking Game Strategy Specific Punishes Setups/baits Knowledge

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I'm kind of new to I-No still, but I got a little bit of experience against him. My points are probably invalid due to inexperience with I-No, but I have general Vs. Venom info, so maybe it won't all be pointless. His pressure is definitely frustrating to deal with. If you don't have tension, don't expect to stop blocking once he's on offense. From a distance, H/VCL will help stuff ball setups/launches, Note will help change pressure if you can throw it out before Venom hits you. Seems that throwing out HCL when he's trying to pressure helps (watch for the gaps in pressure, when he goes for stinger aim is when this would work) if you time it right. If you have more than a slight knowledge of Venom, you can usually guess which setup/launches he's going to go for, so try doing Strokes/HCL's to punish once you think you know what he's going to do. Definitely his pressure is the toughest part of this match. Sorry that it's not much, but I'm still learning I-No :vbang:

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I'm fighting a competitive venom this week, i'll let you know what I get from this later, keep in mind that koichi believes this match up is in i-no's favor, so it might be excution heavy, but I-no has some type of advantage.

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From what I've seen Venom has the upperhand in this matchup. The fact that his balls can stop I-no from flying around and makes hit difficult to get in. As well as 6P will beat out alot of her specials and aerial dives. However, he's not to great on Defense. The ones I've seen of I-No winning is because of the high low pressure game. There's really no gaps for Venom to get through unless he has 50%.

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During approach Venom has an answer for everything, but his choices are limited when you jump in. FD his (i think it's 6h but I don't play venom) anti air normal and stuff his cancel with a stbt or 5k his face. He can keep you away very well if you stay grounded or well, low to the ground that is... f.s. works pretty well in the match-up, but it's not really something you should depend on, it just doesn't get you raped like in a vs jam match up. Getting cornered, Venom's pressure is soooo tight that this is the only match-up where I consistantly get slash back's in. If you are really confident, you can just let him corner you and slash back his ass for free damage. I discovered this after about 20 corner rapings. He has a TK FB for a mix-up, but even though it looks fast, after recieving it a couple time's you can block it on reaction, even better, the TK plus FB flash help slow it down enough to Slashback (HIGHLY DIFFICULT AND NOT RECOMMENDED) on reaction. But being on the recieving end is still a terrible thing and after enough abuse from me, the venom player switched to throws and I started getting wrecked again. To be honest, one day of playing just isn't enough for me to judge the match-up, but if I had to say something, it kept going back and forth. He'd get me a couple matches than I'd get him a couple matches and back and forth, soooo it looks like mind games played more here than tech skill and that usually mean a 5/5 match up...

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His 6p didn't feel strong at all to me when I was playing. Framedata says it has above knees invul from frame 1-4 and 5-11 is just upper body. Carcass raid leaves him at +8 *so don't fidget TK mad struggle leaves him at +7 *same here TK FB leaves him at +19 *this is what venom is all about If they do dark angels as oki when your close you can super through it. His lockdown is tight, stay cool... its not Eddie.

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Slashback the FB Madstruggle? How do you do that? It's 2 consecutive hits, and the last hit is where most of the blockstun comes from.

it's difficult and not recommended. if you practice it enough, i'm sure you'll get it. i got a lucky break on this as the timing came naturally for me.

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I don't know. I've tried it, and you can slashback the first hit, but I find the two hits so close together that timing the slashback on the 2nd hit is hella hard. I mean when he does hit you, you pretty much see a Beat 2 right away. That's unless the guy you've been fighting is doing is a bit off where only the 2nd hit connects.

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I don't know. I've tried it, and you can slashback the first hit, but I find the two hits so close together that timing the slashback on the 2nd hit is hella hard. I mean when he does hit you, you pretty much see a Beat 2 right away. That's unless the guy you've been fighting is doing is a bit off where only the 2nd hit connects.

well, I'll just chalk it up as something that only I do... I'll edit my other post...

*edit*

as for the match up,

therapest has been making venom his main. he believes that the match up is slightly in I-no's favor. apparently, venom needs to work harder for his damage and can loose pressure on an opponent who simply plays against venom alot. Stbt answers alot of what venom has and on CH basically kills him. I-no's free damage (mix up game) is a more of a garuantee in the match than venom's frame traps and block strings. venom needs tension and guard guage, to win, i-no can just use oki and mix-ups (free!!!) He thinks f.s is can be very effective if used correctly. finally, cross ups eat venom's charging and ball placement alive. s.j to a.d all day for no reason, (exaggerating, but you get what i'm saying) and you've just ruined a venom players day. just be smart with your cross ups and you'll do fine.

that's what he told me from the many matches we played. it boils down to the i-no player. an experienced i-no player can escape his pressure game better than he can escape her mix-ups. i-no can get in on him pretty well, given you know how to approach from the air, when to stbt and when to cross up before approaching.

these are a venom players words, not mine...

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I find that the match up can go either way, but I think it's more in Venom's favour mainly because of his zoning ability and his 6P is really good. The I-no's I've played with have a difficult time going through the balls. I mean sure, HCL can stop Venom from summoning but it won't get I-no that close. Good ball manipulation will make it really difficult for I-no and 6P will stuff out alot of the dives as well as gets good damage and a knockdown. The matches I've seen between Venom and I-no, namely N.O vs Koichi, Venom has the edge.

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^^^just go to youtube and search KK1 (IN). there is tons of AC Koichi footage. I don't think he switched to Millia or Robo-Ky for good, just for SBO. He played some Millia during Slash too.

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Number one thing, bait the 6h. Bait it bait it bait it! It's unsafe and his main weapon against your air game. If you can get him to not 6h your jump ins, you own venom, if you bait his 6h and he whiffs, you own him. All his other anti airs leave him even more vulnerable, so if you take care of 6h, don't even worry about anything else. when venom tries to zone you with ball formations, just become very mobile, (I like to sj ad dive.) ball formations are very precise and usually can't be readjusted safely. If the venom you play likes to readjust ball formations, air dash and dive punish him. when you screw up his ball formations by crossing him up, watch his last summoned ball, they like to teleport when crossed up and that's where he'll teleport. I usually send a note that way for good measure. if you get screwed and he's got 3 to 4 balls out, drop a slow note to the floor, (frc if you can) and stbt(H). If you have 50% tension, IAD UF them and cash in your free mix up. All I got...

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6h? You mean 6P don't you? Most Venom players don't like to whore out the 6HS because we know it's unsafe. 6P is what you gotta watch out for since it's Venom's best counter against jump in happy people. Also, just a note for those trying to super jump in and dive. Be weary that Doublehead Morvid S and 6P both send balls flying straight up.

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6h? You mean 6P don't you? Most Venom players don't like to whore out the 6HS because we know it's unsafe. 6P is what you gotta watch out for since it's Venom's best counter against jump in happy people.

Also, just a note for those trying to super jump in and dive. Be weary that Doublehead Morvid S and 6P both send balls flying straight up.

Don't play venom, so I wouldn't know, it's the one where he spins the stick foward/overhead. Also, if that is the 6h, it stops alot of I-no's stuff as long as it doesn't whiff. And finally, he doesn't whore that move, he simply answers with it, I just learned how to fake him out recently...

I'll tell him to 6p more...

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Yeah, since there's no matchup threads in the Venom forum, I'm pretty much going around other forums reading on what they'd do against Venom to counter it and maybe help them out. 6P is the quick whipping move. You've probably seen it alot like in throw combos since it's usually what Venom likes to start off with in that combo. I wouldn't tell your friend who plays Venom to 6P more, well not a whole lot more at least, because there's been a bunch of times I've been baited by people who've caught on. But it's definitely one of his best AAs. upper invuln. Beats out I-No's Dives and CL if close enough, however if mistimed too early, he's fucked. That's often how people get me. Bait the 6P and make him mistime it. The recovery frames are long so you'll get at least a knockdown. 6HS is the long fly swatter. A bit slow but has alot of range and packs a big punch. Be aware of the range of this move because most of the time, when he does use it, he'll probably be trying to keep you on the ground or trying catch you while jumping. I think I-No will have a harder time because her dash counts as in the air? So that means you have to FD block it. 6HS is a good at catching people at a range, so that's why I call it the fly swatter. Basically, you wanna bait the 6H because usually Venom will pull it out when you're trying to AD in at a distance. c.S is a risky move but will catch opponents coming in on occasion. Has 5 frame startup. Launches, 3 hits. Also sends balls flying straight up. Just be aware of this, because for those trying to double jump to bait the 6P, if Venom has a ball out then it'll send it flying upwards. Doublehead Morvid is the one where he spins the stick like a helicopter. Just to let you know it has no invincibility. the Short version has decent priority but not something that can be used as a wakeup uppercut most times.

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I kinda agree with ko1's matchup ratio against venom. first of all i-no's mixup is one of the best so characters who sux in defense will suffer the most. and her okizeme is as great as venom. The matchup between them is like who gets more OKI oppurtunity wins the game. Although ino has the upper hand because venom's zoning is locked bec of HCL and can't get oki pretty well. And this forces venom to summon air balls, stinger aim/cancel if needed (beats HCL) and use his normal moves 5S (beats HCL, STBT), 6P (beats all the dives but theres a high chance they you'll get counterhit which means another oki.) Probably the best way for i-no to win is to rush venoms ass until his HP has nothing left. Bec once you gave Venom a chance to summon balls you'll eat balls all day, thus venom gets the upperhand if youre either cornered/pressured. But LD is there to help on those times. I-no won't have any problem dealing with Nanasi type venoms though lol. So watch out for ballseisei whores. I-no's moves: HCL beats: carcass raid, ball seisei, STBT beats: stinger aim, 6P, 6H, 2S SP beats: 6H(delayed SP), bal seisei, carcass raid, stinger aim, dubious curve, 6H beats: carcass raid, stinger aim S, 5S 6P beats: j.H, stinger aim, double head morbid(he spins the stick) ADS beats: almost beats everything except for moving balls, stinger aim S(risk of getting SD) Venom moves: dash can evade HCL lol 6P beats: SP(if timed right), SP H, 5S(far) beats: HCL 5S(close) beats: HCL, STBT, interrupts i-no's high low game crouching helps you to avoid HCL and anticipate STBT. (well $#*! you i-no) Stinger aim beats: HCL carcass raid S beats: STBT but 5S its safer Carcass Raid H beats: SP 6H is useless bec of the scale and her 6H.

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Didn't read this whole thread so sorry for repeating things. I played a venom player all week long. He's not the best venom, but not too bad either. Number one thing I learned is venom has too many options to snuff STBT. This venom in particular loved to snuff it with a dead angel, which HURTS! However I saw alot of 623+H snuffing it too. I have a bad habit of attacking on the very first hint of a gap when attacking, often with STBT S. So I saw alot of (air) 236+S/H > his recovery and me using STBT after blocking > me eating 623+H. Avoid his TK 236+D in the corner at all cost. The thing fucking launches into a "please combo me until im dead" state. I don't know what venom's throw range is but im guessing it's pretty big because he got alot of throws on me. I got more of course, but his throw count was still pretty damn high. If he has over 50% tension and you drop a combo, let it go and switch to the defensive. This venom teched out and immediatly went into 236236+H. Also, I found the most difficult thing was to get in on venom. It was much more successful to let him push me into a corner, block and then go for a throw than it was to try to manually push him into the corner.

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Yeah Venom beats STBT easy as hell. And his AA is really good. Never forget that Venon has a really good high/low game with his TK MAd Struggle(236+S/HS/D) The S version is really good for applying even more pressure because he can easily contiue to attack right after it. The HS version is a mainly used to end combos with a Dubi Curve. And the D version great combo starter and it's a lvl.6 move. And watch out for Dark Angel pressure. It eats tension or jacks your guard guage and it covers Venom's actions very well. Watch out for that mixup. And I have no idea what the hell Ky0n01 is talking about. Venom's 2S CAN beat STBT. I do it often.

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2S can beat STBT towards the end of the animation (when she's coming back up). Too early and she'll go right under you, too late and you eat the CH. Prolly not really worth trying in most cases.

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