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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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anyone getting the jp version of p4 tomorrow? l have a few theory pressure/mixup/combo routes that could be tested/verified early. it could give whoever wants to test them a leg up in the competition!

No importing it unless you have a JP/Asia PS3 lol. It's region locked.

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True, not sure if anybody is willing to do it now though. The region lock debacle sort of knocked the wind out of people. I know my friend has the LE FFXIII PS3 he got when he was in Japan couple of years back but doesn't plan on importing it still because of that.

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challenge combos are very nice, very hype, and very funny. wth @ number 30. also, we can combo from shuffle time in the corner. that'll make charm/poison more useful as they are time-based afflictions

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I'm more interested in the possibility of R-Action>Concentration>combo since she can combo from her R-Action which I thought was impossible overall. I know R-Actions are super cancelable, so I'm wondering why this hasn't been attempted, that we know of.

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Did anyone save koichi's write-up on Liz? It had some useful information on play-style as well as useful combo information.

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I'm more interested in the possibility of R-Action>Concentration>combo since she can combo from her R-Action which I thought was impossible overall. I know R-Actions are super cancelable, so I'm wondering why this hasn't been attempted, that we know of.
we'll have the chance to test it out ourselves in due time! :>
Did anyone save koichi's write-up on Liz? It had some useful information on play-style as well as useful combo information.
l don't think anyone posted it, apparently it was in japanese but i'm not sure the details. i'd love to read it one day. as for who still has it, l dunno. also, whats the deal with 5c in standing combos. it looks like you need to gatling a different attack (sometimes 2c wont combo? a.bufu wont reach, a.zio and j.2c are combo enders) depending on... something. perhaps distance? maybe max range 5c does this. i'll have to look more closely...

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Max range 5CC will cause the 2C or the B.Bufu to whiff. That's why you see a lot of Liz players sometime do 5CC into 5D reset attempt or straight into j.C.

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oooooh ok l see. l just saw a vid and it is indeed the max range. that is interesting...

thank you

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Speaking of videos, is it me or are a lot of the Liz players recorded aren't really that good. Very predictable, relying way to much on 5CC pressure and spamming 5D in very bad situations. Also using Agi at wrong places..... There have only been maybe two or three Liz players that went to work and weren't doing "dumb predictable shit".

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she is pretty hard to use, but seemingly popular amongst fans, and for good reason. the whole 'spooky' theme she has going on is incredibly sexy. *ahem* nonetheless, the game is fairly new. expect a few diamonds on the rough down the line, as the game, the character, and the players develop.

also, you never know what you might discover watching a newer player experiment. like garu crossunder mixups.

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Strangely enough, Liz doesn't look that hard to me.

The only things that looks like they will be a pain are her incredibly low health and making sure I don't lose Thanatos.

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her weaknesses are what make her hard, not her execution. her lack of mixup and the risky nature of her meterless mixup means she has to seriously be on point with pretty much every mixup attempt, or lose a persona life. persona broken liz = defending liz. we -definitely- never want to be defending. ever.

even with invigorate, meter management is going to be important - not only in the sense of spending meter mindlessly, but not spending it at all is going to come into account too. when to mind charge? when to ex zio/maragidyne? when to OMC?

defense wise, well as we all know 1-2 good combos, or 2 ok combos w/super are lethal. random hits hurt. you need to know how and when to block like you know how to breathe. her reversals are very situational which further emphasises defending well.

shes very complex in these regards, very rewarding and dangerous, but knowing her well -and- knowing matchups is going to be invaluable. learning matchups within itself is 'hard' - or, it takes a few weeks at least.

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Ah well I expect to screw things up a LOT playing her lol. It's all part of the learning process to me.

Her low life will actually help me with defensive situations better since I'll be forced to learn to block, just to survive lol.

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she is pretty hard to use, but seemingly popular amongst fans, and for good reason. the whole 'spooky' theme she has going on is incredibly sexy. *ahem* nonetheless, the game is fairly new. expect a few diamonds on the rough down the line, as the game, the character, and the players develop.

also, you never know what you might discover watching a newer player experiment. like garu crossunder mixups.

Not saying I'm not watching them. Just saying, she's been out for several months the amount of notable players in comparison to other characters is pretty small.

Way to many relying on 5CC strings. I seriously think that's a string that is easy to get stuck on auto-pilot with which is a bad thing in my opinion. 5D is easy to react to making 2C less scary.

And I rarely see Liz uses 5AA>jc block strings, which is really good.

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well, she doesn't have an awful lot in regards to her pressure that isnt either filler or a risky rps situation, so that could be discouraging the more knowledgeable, yet not-so-great players.

from what l notice elizabeth players tend to most commonly do 5c(1 or 2), 2c or 5d. this puts elizabeth in the least amount of danger should her mixup fail due to the pushback of 5c. losing a persona life is better than losing real life for multiple reasons.

bufu would stop the universal-seeming jump OS (jump, 4/7 dodges grab, ib's 2c), but again its really, really vulnerable without hit, and at the moment, losing the ice counter means rather short combos, loss of resets and lack of stacking status effects.

what else could she do? 5a/2a stagger pressure, 2b j.b pressure, jc normal into IABD, try to mix specials/throws into up close pressure, etc. but let's face it. this stuff isnt stellar either, and her staggers seem to have rather punishable holes. though it's limited in options, current elizabeth needs 5c.

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She can't cancel 5CC into B.Bufu on block, otherwise her 5CC string would be a lot better.

What I see good Liz players do is not rely only on 5CC string and mix it up well. Like if they're going to go into the 5C starter, they sometimes go 5C>2C/5D. It's quicker and provides an extra level to the meta-game since 5D comes out faster after one 5C and you can't jump out of 5C>2C string. Provides a mic up in its on from it's on, so they have to keep in mind the second C instead of getting used to the timing of 5CC into cancel.

Also, 5AA> jc block string is actually really good.

It's the fact that they mix the string up a lot instead of just going 5CC strings all the time.

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l didnt know you couldn't bufu after 5c. l never actually saw it myself, but l figured she could o.0 wow... yea that'd be very strong lol, it'll take the rps right out of the mixup and make it if you jump l will see it, bufu, and you will get slashed.

as for the rest, hmm.... l guess that's what separates the better liz's from the not as great ones. we just have to hope some of them recognize the better players soon, see what they're doing, stem from that and create something even more powerful. if not, we'll just have to show them how it's done with our own tech.

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Did anyone save koichi's write-up on Liz? It had some useful information on play-style as well as useful combo information.

I did but I removed it because TD's information is way better. Though I saved the combo information Koichi wrote in the data thread. On a side note, I do not believe Koichi uses Liz anymore, and last time I saw him he was using Aigis. That or he's just gone into hiding with Liz.

Giovanni has said how I also feel about most of the Liz players autopiloting 5CC and stuff, which is why Kyou really stands out. He's exceptionally good, and that's how I feel one could be aspiring to play like. I personally feel that while Elizabeth's combos are hella fun, she's hard to use.

Done gathering the rest of the Yukiko matches. Now I just need to update the thread and stuffs.

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Man, I get mad every time I see someone not jump her 5d on reaction after 5c. When the persona isnt right on top of them that shit is like 40f, very reactable if you're paying attention. :/ Although, it looks like if you do it right before the second hit of 5c it is not horribly slow, like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8tHsprir7E#t=12m25s

Giovanni has said how I also feel about most of the Liz players autopiloting 5CC and stuff, which is why Kyou really stands out.

Which videos have Kyou in them?

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Yes. That one for example.

Alternatively you can go into the video thread and use ctrl + F, type in Kyou, and there should be like 6 videos of his gameplay.

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kyou is a boss lol. this guy is insane. fuck mitsuru. we, are going to have our hands full and our blood pressure high with her ass. and since shes apparently 2nd easiest to play in an already easy game + the mitsuru army + 7-3 matchup currently, ugh. just ugh.

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Yes. That one for example.

Alternatively you can go into the video thread and use ctrl + F, type in Kyou, and there should be like 6 videos of his gameplay.

Weird, I tried that earlier and it didnt pop up with anything! I must have made a typo or something. Sorry and thanks!

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kiba, remember when you said something about 2ab hitting on it's last frames for frame advantage on oki?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CTQaXP_38w

kyou does it here @ 2:45. it was ib'd and still went unpunished. whether that was because of inexperience or it being unpunishable, l dunno. l saw naoto's blocking animation change for a split second which may imply that it isn't entirely safe, or that could just be her blocking 'recovery' animation.

2ab 5a looks pretty tight anyway.

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