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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth Self Improvement and Critique Thread

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the 2nd hit will come out but right after it your bufu or w/e you used will come out immediately iirc you can do turn j.d also

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only problem is that you 5b>5c too much so its really predictable and youre not doing anything like 5c(1)>rc>j.d/214a/b/ex

tbh chrisg's mitsuru looks pretty bad imo

Seemed to me like he was playing Prada like 95% of all other Prada players. Pressing buttanz and getting away with it.

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if you rc 5c, you can do any special you want before the second hit, you just have to be quick. l personally do 5c(1) rc b bufu right when he's about to attack again. the second swipe acts as a visual illusion, he switches position midswipe and some people may get scared and mash/jump. it looks pretty cool too, and to make it faster l do 2abc14b so the rc comes out as late as possible.

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Thanks for all the input guys, really appreciate it! I need to watch some damosu vids and get my tech up. Hopefully I go back to Big Two again next week and ill have my revenge!! :arg:

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Well, since you can't use twitch, they finally uploaded it to youtube. Here are those matches:

Hateraid Red (Narukami) v. Synthesis (Liz) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=2900s

Synthesis (Liz) v. AIAB Rochus (Naruto) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=6900s

Synthesis (Liz) v. Kensei (Kanji) www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=7690s

Zeromus (Naruto) v. Synthesis (Liz) www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=8590s

And again, be gentle. D= I know I did awful things. xD

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Well, since you can't use twitch, they finally uploaded it to youtube. Here are those matches:

Hateraid Red (Narukami) v. Synthesis (Liz) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=2900s

Synthesis (Liz) v. AIAB Rochus (Naruto) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=6900s

Synthesis (Liz) v. Kensei (Kanji) www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=7690s

Zeromus (Naruto) v. Synthesis (Liz) www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yt5OoZaJ-3o#t=8590s

And again, be gentle. D= I know I did awful things. xD

Good shit man. I'd say you're pretty solid except that you use the DP too much, as well as bursting at some questionable times. Also, don't forget to AC again after AC j.D. You missed j.B a few times because of this.

Also, don't try to hit Naoto from fullscreen, her DP beats everything we have fullscreen :vbang:.

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synthesis, l watched all of the matches. this is what l think. you're decent as far as liz goes. you have a good grasp on how she should play. you controlled the pace well and also had a few decent setups. there were a few things you should work on:

MU knowledge. this became evident the more l watched. you seem to play every MU the same from what i've seen. your opponents, while decently skilled, weren't really putting that pressure on you to try different things imo.

reactions. you have good decision making but oftentimes you were a second too late in following up.

and that's it, really. l would only point out (in a very polite way) that your opponents weren't exactly... exceptional players, or they just didn't know the matchup (l dunno, didn't watch the whole stream). l would love to see you under stress and see how you deal with that. but anyway! you did well. :thumbu:

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@the505 Watched the match. You did pretty well. One of the biggest things I saw was when you would hit non CH 5C you would go into 2C and he would block and take a free card every time.

You need to confirm that into j.C it lets you get better positioning and it is free damage. This works on 5C anti airs that are too far to confirm into 2C as well (like in the first round)

In your pressure when you had him in the corner you threw 5B a lot. If he had wanted to he could have done the slide and hit you with a huge combo. 5B is super risky in this MU.

Also be careful with the SB.Maragidynes as Narukami can Ziodyne on reaction.

You seemed to be a little scared of him at times. You kept backing into the corner even when you had the advantage.

Also why didn't you ever burst? That 2C fatal combo I would have insta burst.

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synthesis, l watched all of the matches. this is what l think. you're decent as far as liz goes. you have a good grasp on how she should play. you controlled the pace well and also had a few decent setups. there were a few things you should work on:

MU knowledge. this became evident the more l watched. you seem to play every MU the same from what i've seen. your opponents, while decently skilled, weren't really putting that pressure on you to try different things imo.

reactions. you have good decision making but oftentimes you were a second too late in following up.

and that's it, really. l would only point out (in a very polite way) that your opponents weren't exactly... exceptional players, or they just didn't know the matchup (l dunno, didn't watch the whole stream). l would love to see you under stress and see how you deal with that. but anyway! you did well. :thumbu:

No, I agree. =D I don't know matchups outside of 1 or 2, and as such I have to fiddle around with what I can get away with in those matchups. I stated in the Naoto matchup thread that I've never played a Naoto that F-Actioned a lot. That changed in this tournament. I have never played a Yu before, and I played a Kanji once before (got wrecked. Wasn't used to those command throw spacings). Because of this, I play very homogenous to figure out what I can or cannot do. And I'm literally the only Elizabeth in Arizona, so yeah. They have no idea what I can do either. xD No one here is good at all yet. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say they're awful. Which is why I'm picking up other characters until people get out of the scrubby phase of hitting buttons for the sake of hitting buttons. Hence, I've picked up Yukiko. Elizabeth relies too much on having amazing reads to get her damage output etc... I can't read opponents if they're making suboptimal choices while under pressure, so I'd rather force them to block with Agi. >:3

Thanks guys! ^_^

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Me vs SKD first round of Rokrew Arena 3.

http://youtu.be/A0yrKSxarhI

I derped quite a few times. I know I cant push buttons after R-action, and I was dropping combos everywhere. :psyduck:

Sorry for low quality, I got this off the stream archive. :v:

You made yourself very vulnerable when you use A Maziodyne at close range. You should OMC to make it safe because SKD could've heavily punished you.

There isn't much else I can commennt on. As you said the lack of hit confirms let you down and I also think you should know when and how to use Thanatos when you are in the corner because there were times were SKD would score some CHs on you and take a chunk of your health.

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You're doing pretty well for yourself. Somethings you may want to take note of though (and take this with a grain of salt, since I'm not the best or anything):

- You're always confirming 2B > j.B. On anti-air hits, the 2B > j.C route does more damage (4.9k~), and it's easier to confirm. You may as well go for it, seeing as Liz builds the required 25SP in about 8 seconds anyway. That doesn't mean 2B > delay j.B isn't a good blockstring though, because it can catch some opponents pressing buttons if properly spaced. j.B starter doesn't net you much damage though.

- Elizabeth has keep away tools, namely 214C and 236X. I notice that you don't really use these. While 214C is pretty slow, after Shuffle time, you can use it for some breathing room. I usually like to throw around Maziodynes after backwards IADs if my opponent is giving chase. 236B is safer than 236A, but 236A is way faster, so it's a bit harder to react to.

- You get some hit confirms, but you don't always go for the combo, or you drop it. I've noticed on the Akihiko you did CH 5A > 5A > nothing. I don't believe he had a burst, either. You also got a hit confirm with 214AB, which could lead to a lot of damage. IIRC, you can do 3 2B > j.B > j.236D loops after it. While the 2B > j.B > j.236D loop isn't a necessity to master, it's nice to know, since all you have to do for the garu is [2], until you hit the ground.

Also, do you read minds or something, lol? Your ability to read bursts is impressive. Hopefully, I didn't come off as condescending or something. Keep up the good work.

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No, not condescending at all! Yeah, I always tell myself to just go for j.C but i keep thinking there is blazblue-style anti-air barrier blocking lol. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, i definitely see what you're saying about maziodynes, usually i'm afraid of using it because if people block it, they usually get in on me for free. But I should throw it out once in awhile just to keep players on their toes.

haha yeah, I guess I go with my gut on burst baiting. It usually works out well.

Thanks for the helps, man!

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Your main problem is hit-confirming and combos. You could win a lot faster/easier if you just confirmed into a combo, or rather, better combos than you were doing. For example, you get 5A FC in the corner and go into autocombo. I suggest that you grind out garu combos, as 5A FC is easily like 8k if you can do the 2B > j.B > d.garu loop. Once you learn the combos, you'll be steam rollin'.

Another thing is that you should work on your pressure. While it isn't bad or horrible by any means, you even said yourself that Thanatos is like a doll. As long as you don't use gattling strings into 5C/2C for every blockstring, you would be saving yourself Persona cards. I prefer to stagger with 5A/2A a few times before throwing out Thanatos. A neat thing you can do if your opponent doesn't have much Liz exp is something like 5B > 2D > punish. Most people will poke Thanatos while he's out from 2D, so you can get a free confirm. Also, you can use 5C (2) OMC in the same fashion. When they go to poke Thanatos, deck them in the face.

At 3:42 in the second video, you could have OMC'd the maragidyne. Once it touches Athena's shield, it counts as hitting her (or something like that). Furthermore, Sb.Agi is +100~ on block, you don't need to OMC it if your opponent blocks it. Pressure after Sb.Agi can be something like 2B OMC > j.A/2A/grab, or 5AA > IAD air turn j.C > j.236C.

Edit: This totally slipped my mind at the time I wrote this. Against Aigis, you can call out 2B with 236A. You can also use j.D if they're using orgia dash, since they're committed to the air at that point.

I hope this helped somewhat.

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Your main problem is hit-confirming and combos. You could win a lot faster/easier if you just confirmed into a combo, or rather, better combos than you were doing. For example, you get 5A FC in the corner and go into autocombo. I suggest that you grind out garu combos, as 5A FC is easily like 8k if you can do the 2B > j.B > d.garu loop. Once you learn the combos, you'll be steam rollin'.

Another thing is that you should work on your pressure. While it isn't bad or horrible by any means, you even said yourself that Thanatos is like a doll. As long as you don't use gattling strings into 5C/2C for every blockstring, you would be saving yourself Persona cards. I prefer to stagger with 5A/2A a few times before throwing out Thanatos. A neat thing you can do if your opponent doesn't have much Liz exp is something like 5B > 2D > punish. Most people will poke Thanatos while he's out from 2D, so you can get a free confirm. Also, you can use 5C (2) OMC in the same fashion. When they go to poke Thanatos, deck them in the face.

At 3:42 in the second video, you could have OMC'd the maragidyne. Once it touches Athena's shield, it counts as hitting her (or something like that). Furthermore, Sb.Agi is +100~ on block, you don't need to OMC it if your opponent blocks it. Pressure after Sb.Agi can be something like 2B OMC > j.A/2A/grab, or 5AA > IAD air turn j.C > j.236C.

Edit: This totally slipped my mind at the time I wrote this. Against Aigis, you can call out 2B with 236A. You can also use j.D if they're using orgia dash, since they're committed to the air at that point.

I hope this helped somewhat.

That definitely helped. I will be spending lots of time in training mode between tonight and the next couple of days. I'll also work on my pressure as well.

Thanks. :3

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Alright here are some of my matches. I feel like I could have done better or much more but lag and bad inputs hinder me from doing much more so I do what I can but lets see what you guys think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je-i_hgzdZc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J16MjU33al0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFwLtoz3fDk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAjxiDX59g

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First and foremost, you should learn more combos. You'll hitconfirm a lot of 5Bs for example, and never get a lot of mileage off of it except 5C, and at that you'll try to go into a 5D reset (more on this later). 5B is a pretty good combo starter, and with only 25 meter can lead into somewhere around 4k. People get hit a lot, may as well combo 'em. To start out, you can keep the combo route basic with something like 5B > 2AB > 236CD > 5B > 5C > 2C > 214B x2 > j.C. That alone should net you like 3.5k. Also, it's kind of advanced, but you were sitting on 150 meter w/out Thanatos and you 5B CH'd Kanji, you could've done a combo to get all of your persona cards back with 5B > 2AB > mind charge > stuff > mind charge > stuff > mind charge. An example of what I mean.

Your pressure/resets need work. I notice that you mostly do 5B/5C/2C, which isn't too good honestly. 5A/2A stagger is pretty good for a rep or 2; you should avoid throwing out 5C/2C haphazardly (like against Kanji, for example) so you don't get persona broken. Furthermore, 5D reset isn't good after the first few times, especially if it's always following 5C. I think j.D is the more versatile reset option, and it may be harder to see coming. Try other gimmicky stuff/resets also, like 2D bait, 2AB > 5D (kinda like s.Lab [4]6C grab setup) or some j.D stuff like 2A (after hard knock down) > 5A > air turn j.D. Also, don't keep relying on Ghastly Wail as a reversal option.

Just practice some things, and you'll be better in no time.

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Be careful with the full screen healing supers too. Mitsuru should easily have been able to punish it with the whip or a droit.

I also noticed a few times when you got a non-counter 5D, and just watched Thanatos toss the enemy right over your head. Try to pay attention to whether the 5D is a counter or not. If it's not a counter, then a good starter combo would be 5D>j.A>j.B>dj.A>j.B>j.C. Another good one is 5D>j.B>j.A>j.C>2A>5B>5C>2C>Thanatos Stuff.

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Alright it seems that work must be done. Gonna try all of these combos these combos without going online. Not gonna risk losing an S rank my days of online raiding for me are over until I can harness the true fury of the Lethal Elevator Attendant. Thanks Elochai I hope I can fight you without getting bodied as badly.

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Be careful with the full screen healing supers too. Mitsuru should easily have been able to punish it with the whip or a droit.

I also noticed a few times when you got a non-counter 5D, and just watched Thanatos toss the enemy right over your head. Try to pay attention to whether the 5D is a counter or not. If it's not a counter, then a good starter combo would be 5D>j.A>j.B>dj.A>j.B>j.C. Another good one is 5D>j.B>j.A>j.C>2A>5B>5C>2C>Thanatos Stuff.

To be honest I was lucky with that match tried to lame it out as much as possible. In terms of the 5D whiff I meant to go 5D>5B>2AB>236CD[9~2]>236D>2A>5B>5C[2]>2C>214B>j.C. However do keep in mind that these were online ranked matches where really bad lag can make you whiff a combo and potentially lose you the match. Although its not shown since it was a replay, lag was present.

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To be honest I was lucky with that match tried to lame it out as much as possible. In terms of the 5D whiff I meant to go 5D>5B>2AB>236CD[9~2]>236D>2A>5B>5C[2]>2C>214B>j.C. However do keep in mind that these were online ranked matches where really bad lag can make you whiff a combo and potentially lose you the match. Although its not shown since it was a replay, lag was present.

Why not just go the way of a meterless combo like 5D > 5B > 2AB > 236D > stuff, or 5D > j.B > j.A > j.C > 2A > stuff? I mean we get a lot of meter, but I'd rather save it. If you wanna throw out 25 meter in a 5D combo, you could go for sb.agi > 5A ender, then air turn j.D reset.

Alright it seems that work must be done. Gonna try all of these combos these combos without going online. Not gonna risk losing an S rank my days of online raiding for me are over until I can harness the true fury of the Lethal Elevator Attendant. Thanks Elochai I hope I can fight you without getting bodied as badly.

With the exception of the 3v3s (which I only played because I was asked, and I broke even at that), I haven't played the game in three, nearly four weeks. If you wanna run some matches though, and the connection isn't too bad, feel free to hit me up.

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