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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth vs Yosuke

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Discuss the Yosuke Matchup here.

Punishes:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

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this guy is really fast. l dont really know everyone's move yet so bear with me...

fullscreen

.if he (super)jumps, prepare to block the kunai projectile.

.from 3/4 of the screen and further, if you a zio and he blocks, it's a free approach or punish for him. use with caution.

.hes very fast so be very vigilant of ground/air approaches.

.he has persona charging star, im not sure how to beat this yet, probably 5a. you can block it easily. it also has a followup.

midscreen

.he has this air feint that teleports him to the ground for a surprise low attack! be wary. l believe this is punishable.

.he has a far reaching command grab that causes confusion. jump out of it. if you get hit and he tries to press the advantage, press bd when hes point blank as thats the earliest you can more. pretty sure other moves get beat out.

thats all l have atm, if anyone would like to say the notations for this move, or add/correct stuff, that'd be awesome

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he has a projectile invincible dash attack that goes like fullscreen that beats all lazors and ex agi

the air to ground tp low is punishable iirc

charging star? im guessing the one where his persona dashes at you on ground and does a uppercut? ez block and break

his gyakugire is retarded.......its active like even after he stops doing the stupid motion where he swings his stupid kunai back and forth

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l take it the projectile invul backdash has no effect on physical attacks? also, what can he do after it? i'm thinking 5c or sweep would be good reaction normals if he suspects an a/b zio and performs the dash. also, is it ex or regular?

yea charging star = rush attack with persona. im not sure why he has that move, it looks pretty bad. l dont think it has any invul. 5b right through? its active awhile.

for his r action, well, ive gotten hit by it twice today. l dont remember it doing any damage, just a knockdon. it just shifts the momentum in his favor. ldk how to punish. maybe throw or throw(whiff) 5a

of course im only brainstorming atm so take everything l say on the MU with a grain of salt until we can do further, concrete testing

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lol its active for so fucking long that i cant even do run up 5d when he did it from a distance, it nullifies everything

i dont remember if it did dmg or not, i vaguely remember seeing 500 i think?

the persona uppercut has some kind of persona invincibility i think cuz i tried to 5a as soon as i block 1st hit but i ate the followup

the dash is pretty fucking fast and he can jump cancel it i think and do dumb air stuff, not sure about regular having the property but ex did for sure, goes straight through ex agi even when its active

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Yosuke's EX Dash is projectile invulnerable only. If you see the match I had against Chazmobile, you will see I used my R-action on it a couple of times, and at the end of part 3 I was able to beat it with 5D. If he catches you he can go into moonsault combo/mixup like normal. To punish his R-action, you have to wait a while, then punish. I punish with 5C CH > 2C, but ofc in the corner you could go for 2C which is even better.

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more stuff.

.against charging star: 5b jiraya, watch what yosuke does. 5c beats the ex dash. 2b and 2c beats IAD. 2c also beats kunai projectile. once you hit jiraya w/5b, you can gatling and special cancel and you have alot of time to do so too, yosuke will have a hard time punishing.

.against kunai projectile: if you see it coming, evasive roll. you cannot punish yosuke AT ALL if you block, even ib. depending on distance, 5a, 5c, zio are ok punishes.

.his sweep beats 5c/2c at round start. l dunno what beats sweep yet.

.fullscreen, if he has 25 heat throw out 5c every once in awhile to discourage ex dash, it's more consistent than 5d.

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a small tidbit but, make sure to never whiff a garu vs him, he can punish it 100% of the time because of his speed compared to other characters who may need to react within a certain range/time frame.

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Is there any way to beat this guy with an air approach? Any time I jump, I end up eating 2B ;-;.

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magarudyne isn't very useful for baiting yosuke because that fucking 2B extends to infinity. I think liz just needs to play this match-up on the ground, or stick with very low IADs. She can't compete with his 2B. honestly this match-up is as bad as mitsuru, but for different reasons.

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I didn't think 2B would beat Magarudyne but thanks for the clarification.

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I didn't think 2B would beat Magarudyne but thanks for the clarification.
the problem is that 2B is godlike - it goes up much much higher than most other character's 2B, so if Liz uses it at the height she needs to bait it, yosuke will probably recover already. I really hate this match-up, there's so few areas for her to approach it comfortably.

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l usually go about the match with extreme caution. there isnt really a reason to approach him imo as his strat is one of cat and mouse (and liz isn't exactly a cat herself). instead of trying to approach him l use lots of passive movements such as backing up, back/air backdashing, whiffing safe normals like 5a, sweep, etc. an occasional a or b zio to keep him from starting an offense on the ground. l don't usually empty jump or jump at all b/c it's giving him a huge chance to get in. this works because it forces him to stay back (you'll gain sp), or approach (liz can evade and possibly punish many of yosuke's attacks by reacting quickly). keeping a sharp eye and letting him punish himself is how l go about the MU.

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This hasn't been pointed out yet so I'll do it now in case anyone still wants advice. To reiterate my point that Liz should never ever ever jump in on Yosuke: sweep low profiles and flat out beats her jB at basically every angle. Sweep also low profiles her 5B even when it's used during block strings, so use it with extreme caution.

It's best to play this match-up as a footsie character and keep Yosuke out with jB, 5A or lasers until Liz can start her offense. Yosuke is VERY good at baiting 2B with karaglide and moonsault so I prefer to air-to-air him with jA/jB/air throw. Yosuke's 5B is plus on block and his 5A is 5 frames of start-up so don't ever try to disrespect his block strings with mashing.

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This hasn't been pointed out yet so I'll do it now in case anyone still wants advice. To reiterate my point that Liz should never ever ever jump in on Yosuke: sweep low profiles and flat out beats her jB at basically every angle. Sweep also low profiles her 5B even when it's used during block strings, so use it with extreme caution.

It's best to play this match-up as a footsie character and keep Yosuke out with jB, 5A or lasers until Liz can start her offense. Yosuke is VERY good at baiting 2B with karaglide and moonsault so I prefer to air-to-air him with jA/jB/air throw. Yosuke's 5B is plus on block and his 5A is 5 frames of start-up so don't ever try to disrespect his block strings with mashing.

Well, now I don't feel so helpless now. O.O

This matchup annoyed the crap out of me when I first started with Liz...mainly because I haven't been playing competitively and couldn't find a main to settle with. Still annoys me (along with Yu) but you gave me things to work on.

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I'd personally say 2C is useful in this match-up with proper conditioning. When I say proper conditioning, I mean once you have convinced your opponent that you'll only whiff moves with little recovery (such as what Eshi listed) or that you'll hang back. I usually whiff a few throughout the rounds to get a Yosuke to try and punish the recovery with glide. Yosuke usually has enough time to block 2C when it actually connects, but it gives you a chance to go for a mixup or pressure before/when he lands. You can also IAD back out of his range if you would rather do that (blockstun gives you enough time in most cases unless he's really close to the ground or IB's it). I'd note that it's really easy for him to glide over 2C if you're not spacing it properly (you should be using this only from fullscreen or 3/4 of the screen away). 2C is best used directly in the corner since Thanatos willl prevent most if not all non-moonsault crossups. It's really just additional mindgames to add to an already awkward matchup.

I'll go into the lab tomorrow and see if there's anything else worth pointing out at this point.

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Really late, but j.B totally beats out his Garudyne. Shouldn't, but it does.

Edit:

5B does the same, but only on it's startup. Example: 2C > 236AB > 2AB. If Yosuke decides to Garudyne and you wanted to for some reason do an early 5B(is it even safe against a roll!?) then it would hit him out of his Garudyne.

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Whenever I approach him from the air while he's on the ground I usually Magarudyne him. They usually use 2B but I usuall counterattack that since the frames to initiate Magarudyne usually are enough to outlast the active frames.

Speaking of 2B Elizabeth's can be quite useful when given enough condition. It's good to use if he tries to approach you from the air while you're on the ground. Though be wary because he can use his kunais still. Yosukes also seem to throw Kunai's from fullscreen when they super jump so either block or if you actually super jump with them, Maziodyne them.

Be sure to keep a close eye on Yosuke's meter too since if he has 25 SP or more, he'll be able to punish fullscreen while going through Maziodyne, Maragidyne, just about anything with an SB Dash Spring. And if he has 50 more SP he can grind a good combo with Garudyne as a finisher.

If Yosuke uses dash spring and you block. Be careful when he flips around because he ends up crossing you up really easily. However he's also vulnerable for an air throw, 2b or j.C (Jump C). Though that doesn't mean he ALWAYS does the moonsault whenever he does dash spring. Yosuke's who know they can be countered will usually throw kunais right after the attack so that they don't get punished. It's good to know how to block Moon Slash and also to know when they do it so you can punish them.

A few other moves I have trouble with are Tentarafoo and the move where Yosuke disappears in the air and sweeps while dash teleporting to the ground. Always be on the look out for Tentarafoo if Yosuke does a combo where you're still in the ground. And the same for his teleport move when he uses moonsault. I don't think there's any easy ways to punish them since a Yosuke using Tentarafoo during a combo usually is too far away to hit with an attack that's faster then it (though you'll probably hit the Jiraiya). And for countering the teleport attack, I recommend just low guarding unless you have mad reflexes that are like to the point where you don't use mind charge for breathing space anymore (which very few have). If you're in awakening it IS possible to use Ghastly Wail on Yosuke during the teleport attack.

I think there's also a feint to the teleport sweep where Yosuke just throws his kunais from where he was but I don't see a lot of Yosuke's use that version much but if you do find one who uses that a lot. Then just block low since it still won't hit you either way.

Hope I was a bit useful (Which I probably am not)! = D

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To expand on what Eshi said about his sweep cleanly beating out or j.B, if you end up doing 5C > j.C, then it would be best not to instant air dash because eventually the thing gets baited and either j.A or j.B will be beaten by Yosuke's sweep on wakeup. Then again you could just attempt a throw or expand or Thantos's wack pressure.

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Is it possible to take to the air to smack Yosuke back onto the ground without it being suicide? I can't deal with his pressure if I stay on the ground.

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