[CSE] Makoto vs. Jin

[StarGazer]

Match up Rating: 5.0:5.0

Overview: Jin is a well rounded character and can do everything decently, but he doesn't have anything special to be afraid of and his rewards are quite decent.

Neutral: --

Offense: --

Defense: --

Discuss

[SolAscension]

I think the biggest problem in this matchup is how Jin's hitbox works. It becomes habit to know to switch your combos because it is Jin, but it leads to inferior combos that require a 2b pickup instead of 5b.

A great gimmick to use against Jins who love to spam C uppercut on wakeup, is to run up 3c, if done correctly Makoto will slide under the uppercut and commence punishment.

Things to watch out for:

-Combos that end in mid-air freeze, always barrier block after, Jin will try to reset with air-unblockables (which can be blocked with barrier).

-Grabs and TRM setups. I don't know if it's just every Jin I've ever fought against, but they are one grab happy bunch.

[StarGazer]

I prefer [2A~2B] OS over throwing a meaty 3C. Jin can react to your 3C with a grab but he can't do anything to the meaty 2A OS, not even gold bursts will work, neither his D DP if you time the 2A REALLY CAREFULLY (2 Frames alike timing window). But your 3C method have a very unique advantage, it makes the DP whiff so he cant RC if its baited.

[SolAscension]

Yeah, like I said, it is a gimmick, so shouldn't be your go-to method, but when your yomi is good, it's a great tool to use.

[Jyosua]

You're also thinking about his D DP, not C. Look if he has 25 heat; if he's a very predictable Jin, he'll use D DP. He'll probably use C DP if he has 50 heat though. Makoto's 3C will low profile D DP, but not C DP. StarGazer's suggestion to use a 2A OS is probably a good one, but watch out for wakeup throw.

As far as watching out for grabs and resets: Watch out for resets after 5B or after a j.D finisher to an aerial combo. After 5B jin can reset midscreen with a grab, low, crossover, or overhead (but only if he has 50 heat to RC the overhead). In the corner, 5B will pull the opponent slightly out of the corner, so all of these options are again viable.

Be careful about expecting a crossover reset after seeing an airdash though... he can feint that and then reset you with j.236D ice swords, which prevent him from crossing over. In the corner this leads to really good damage.

As far as j.D is concerned, if Jin is high enough in the air to get his air option back and you are slightly above him, he can airdash under you after j.D and reset you with another j.D. This can end up carrying you into the corner.

As far as TRM setups, simply don't mash throw tech. Jin loves to go for TRM because it's a primary way to open people up. Jin does not have good high-low mixup, so he relies on grabs and crossovers/feints to open up the opponent. Offline and in a really good netplay connection, green throws can be teched, but since Jin will often use 2A and 5A pressure, that will get you TRM'd. If you also mash throw tech after 5B, he can overhead > purple throw TRM.

[HiagoX]

You can low profile Jin's 623C with 3C if timed right. Either way, you're off better just using 2A option select or safe jumping.

[Bibiquadium]

214A~D > Every DP Jin has.

[Jyosua]

You can low profile Jin's 623C with 3C if timed right. Either way, you're off better just using 2A option select or safe jumping.

Oops, yeah you're right. I thought the hitbox was lower on Rehyou than it actually is. Everything else I said stands though.

[StarGazer]

StarGazer's suggestion to use a 2A OS is probably a good one, but watch out for wakeup throw.

It beat throws actually, or else it wont be an OS. It lose to Yukikaze though but that needs 50% heat to start worrying about. The OS also works inside pressure, for example: "2A > 2A > 66 > 2A~1B > Baits the DP" or "2A > 5B > 6C > 214AC > 2A~1B > Baits the DP" Sometimes when Jin use his A Ice Car as a frame trap and it fails he will be in danger, so he will use DP akin to Ragna's Hells Fang > DP trap, thats were you can do the OS too.

As far as Jin offense goes, he has a very good pressure but lacks a rewarding overhead in his high/low mix up, but still, his 6A can decay your HP slowly or destroy you on CH or worse, he will RC it for straight crouching confirms if he have heat. Overheads in pressure, naked overheads, or meaty overheads are all dangerous when once he hit the 50% heat mark. With the given information he will force you to respect him and that's when he go crazy with TRMs or cross ups.

In neutral. Generally, Jin will space you in 5C/2D range and play keep away, once he lands a hit he can take the momentum or bait for something, he can break his spacing and jump on you to catch you by surprise. Stay on your toes, whiff punish is vital in this match up. Remember to be ready to chase him since he tend to back off a lot, react to his jump away, keep the ideal distance to anti air in mind, care from his rising ice sword, it may beat your are air to air attempts or worse it will beat your Anti air, try to cross under him then go for it instead more often, be aware of his j.236D and try to bait it. 3C is good to keep in mind in this match up. Remember to IB his 5C/2D/Ice swords. 3[C] does good in moving through the horizontal swords. Our top dashing speed is monstrous, you can catch him by it especially if he does a sloppy j.236B/C. BBS beats Ice sword on reaction for free. Though its gimmicky but parrying the Ice swords and 2D is awesome and looks cool, scored a couple of Fatal > 665CC > 5000 for free with it.

Oops, yeah you're right. I thought the hitbox was lower on Rehyou than it actually is. Everything else I said stands though.

Its not the hitbox, 3C have Upper body invu, so... anything without the feet attribute will miss it.