[CP] Valkenhayn Changes Thread (Updated 8/6)

[NeoGio0o]

Oh okay I thought it was something different, but nvm I already knew about that broken mix up option.

On the topic of CT follow up if proration is a problem Valk should be able to do 2C > 6B >236C > Wolf Stuff.

[Kiba]

Oh okay I thought it was something different, but nvm I already knew about that broken mix up option.

Y'know I till get that strongggggg feeling that you guys are referring to something else so I hope to leave this to the more knowledgable players lol.

On the topic of CT follow up if proration is a problem Valk should be able to do 2C > 6B >236C > Wolf Stuff.

6B > 236C probably wouldn't work due to the fact that 6B doesn't force crouch anymore.

[Verard]

First time I'm seeing someone followup from it, but I'm fairly confident in saying that he could've gone for a more optimal combo, something along the lines of (2C) > 3C > 236A > 2C > Stuff into air combo with wolf.

Not sure if 3C > 236A > 2C is possible on a standing target anymore, every Valk I've seen try that has to 2A after 236A to connect in time.

[Dreize]

It's not possible. Nacht Jager got nerfed and causes less blowback on air hit, must use 2A > 2C now.

How on earth did the Hakumen board get all the Hakumen changes including the new proration values? Damn.

I wonder if optimal 4 beast cannon combos are still possible. Obviously we're not going to get the same damage, but I really enjoyed doing those combos for sheer entertainment value.

[Urichinan]

6B > 236C probably wouldn't work due to the fact that 6B doesn't force crouch anymore.

Do we know if 2C > 236C still combos on grounded opponents? You could omit the 6B and still get similar damage.

Though from a guard break in the corner, going straight into 6C should be the best starter, due to it's amazing proration.

[Dreize]

It should still work. I don't think they changed the hitstun on 2C or the start-up of Nacht Rosen. Yeah, we could omit the 6B I guess.

It would do less damage though, because 2C now has lower proration; not to mention the fact that 236C > 9D > w[j.B > j.A] > 2C supposedly doesn't work anymore because Nacht Rosen doesn't launch as high (maybe we can do 236C > 9D > w[j.B > j.A] > 2A > 2C instead, kinda like what we're doing with our 3C > 2A > 2C corner combos).

Edit: Was the P1 of 2C nerfed or the P2? Or both? Well, right now we're getting about (give or take slightly more or less) this much per confirm in the corner.

6B: 5496 meterless. Uses 3 2C's.

6C: 5096 meterless. Uses 3 2C's.

2C: 5646 meterless. Uses 4 2C's.

I'd honestly go ahead and speculate that 6B would be our best starter off of a crush trigger (maybe even 2C if they didn't nerf the P1, which they most likely did) if we have 50 meter left to spare it will most likely involve a rapid'd Schwarz Jagd as well.

Then again, these are all Extend combos. So who knows. Just some speculation I guess (a bit pre-mature may I add, since we don't even have the final/finished changelog yet). I wonder if w[j.C] or w.5C will drastically change our human combos in terms of pathways. Also, mondlicht having more untech time may be a game changer? All I'm seeing right now is Mondlicht > 6C > Schwarz Jagd though.

[Kiba]

Edit: Was the P1 of 2C nerfed or the P2? Or both? Well, right now we're getting about (give or take slightly more or less) this much per confirm in the corner.

2C still retains a P1 of 100 and a P2 of 92, according to Nokita's post

I'd honestly go ahead and speculate that 6B would be our best starter off of a crush trigger (maybe even 2C if they didn't nerf the P1, which they most likely did) if we have 50 meter left to spare it will most likely involve a rapid'd Schwarz Jagd as well.

Both 6B and 6C have a P1 of 100 but our options seem a little more limited from 6B which is why i think its inferior to 6C. 6C gives us that corner bound too. Mid screen I'd say 2C is best, but in the corner, 6C, as Urichinan said.

[BladeOfJustice7]

How on earth did the Hakumen board get all the Hakumen changes including the new proration values? Damn.

We have two people who read Japanese (itsme and Isuna), coupled with Spark's inhuman mathematical skills. But itsme is who found all the new proration changes from the jbbs or wtv.

[Verard]

Both 6B and 6C have a P1 of 100 but our options seem a little more limited from 6B which is why i think its inferior to 6C. 6C gives us that corner bound too. Mid screen I'd say 2C is best, but in the corner, 6C, as Urichinan said.

Yeah 6C is the way to go since 6B has no force crouch I'd imagine, the only question I have is that is the startup short enough that it will connect after CT? The guard crush time has been reduced significantly.

[Dreize]

We have two people who read Japanese (itsme and Isuna), coupled with Spark's inhuman mathematical skills. But itsme is who found all the new proration changes from the jbbs or wtv.

Oh nice. Send the Valky changes our way too, haha.

2C still retains a P1 of 100 and a P2 of 92, according to Nokita's post

Oh my, that's actually very surprising. I wonder...

Yeah 6C is the way to go since 6B has no force crouch I'd imagine, the only question I have is that is the startup short enough that it will connect after CT? The guard crush time has been reduced significantly.

Both 6B and 6C have a P1 of 100 but our options seem a little more limited from 6B which is why i think its inferior to 6C. 6C gives us that corner bound too. Mid screen I'd say 2C is best, but in the corner, 6C, as Urichinan said.

I swore 6C had a P1 of 100 (especially since I get 6.1k off of it for 50 meter in Extend, and I swear that I've read it as "100" before) but apparently it only has a P1 of 80. 6B on the other hand has a P1 of 100 and does more damage, has better meter gain, plus it starts up faster. Add on the fact that 6C has better P2 then 6B does and it seems more plausible to use 6B as a starter and 6C mid-combo. Then again, these are all Extend proration values so it could have changed drastically in CP (but I really don't think they would nerf 6B anymore then they already did with the non-force of crouch and starting up in 1 more frame).

The 6B not forcing crouch nerf really only effects us drastically midscreen since we can't link a Nacht Rosen due to loss of forced crouch. However, off of a CT in the corner we should be able to do 6B > 3C just like in Extend.

Midscreen, our best starters will probably be 2C, a rapid'd Schwarz Jagd, mondlicht (since they increased the P1, lol), and apparently 2A now has a P1 or 100 now as well? Swore I read that somewhere.

I'm pretty damn curious about all the new proration values, and what links together properly in CP. I really wish that I could get my hands on this game for a few hours.

[DJ_Blactricity]

We lost gatlings after 6B and 2A's P2 is 77 so it isn't a good starter.

[Dreize]

We lost gatlings after 6B

Oh god no.

2A's P2 is 77 so it isn't a good starter.

Ah, well.

That's a nerf then, damn.

[NeoGio0o]

I know for a fact Wolf CG > 2B > 236A > 2C works and Wolf confirm > (Revert back to Human) > 5B > 236A > 2C works as well. If 3C > 236A > 2C doesn't work you should be able to get a 2B or 2A before they tech after the 236A and settle with a little less damage for consistency.

[Dreize]

Looks like we still have 4 beast cannon combos. Masashi did one off of a 6C starter (he did 5 technically, but you get the idea).

Take a look.

[Kiba]

Thanks for showing that.

I wonder what much more he can achieve from that. Well, here's me hoping that is not all.

[Dreize]

At this point I'm just hoping for at least 4k meterless off of optimal hitconfirms in the corner.

Also,

Current Japan tier list on the jbb site:

S: Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Jin, Litchi

A+: Mu, Azrael, Valkenhayn, Relius

A: Ragna, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Tsubaki, Bang, Platinum, Nu

B: Izayoi, Noel, Bullet, Tager, Amane, Makoto

Obviously this is extremely pre-mature, but it's a nice little first impression. Valky is apparently A+ in this tier list.

[hipikachu]

At this point I'm just hoping for at least 4k meterless off of optimal hitconfirms in the corner.

Also,

Current Japan tier list on the jbb site:

S: Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Jin, Litchi

A+: Mu, Azrael, Valkenhayn, Relius

A: Ragna, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Tsubaki, Bang, Platinum, Nu

B: Izayoi, Noel, Bullet, Tager, Amane, Makoto

Obviously this is extremely pre-mature, but it's a nice little first impression. Valky is apparently A+ in this tier list.

Everyone knows Hazama sucks

[Dreize]

Combo does 4158 damage meterless off of a 5C CH. This is the most I've seen any Valky player do meterless in CP.

Here.

[Aki-]

@Dreize : 4158 damage meterless off of a 5C CH? Works for me. That's pretty good damage! Here's to hoping that Valkenhayn has some mid-screen combos that end in 3 or 4+k damage! (x

[Dreize]

@Dreize : 4158 damage meterless off of a 5C CH? Works for me. That's pretty good damage! Here's to hoping that Valkenhayn has some mid-screen combos that end in 3 or 4+k damage! (x

The new wolf normals seem to lead to 2.5-3.5k which is really nice.

Also, 3857 from a 5B confirm in the corner.

I am very happy about this.

[Kiba]

Hima has been tweeting a lot of combo information, and he seems to be asking if certain enders are inferior to others.

Ofc, I can't make out much of anything he's saying besides the combos....

[Dreize]

I still can't believe that we're so behind in terms of CP changes.

Hima seems to be using the w[3D > j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) ender quite a bit as of recent.

[Kiba]

Yea that's probably because he's saying that the w[j.AAA > j.C] > j.C ender is useless (if I'm reading correctly).

[Dreize]

Oh, that's odd. I've been seeing that ender quite a bit lately.

Hopefully all of our proper enders wont require a command dash. Link me to Hima's twitter so that I can take a look?

[Kiba]

Here you go.