Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Setsuna

[P4A] Labrys vs Kanji

Recommended Posts

Labrys_Vs_Kanji_Header.png

Please use this thread to discuss and contribute to this matchup. Information will be added to the main post as information comes. Keep in mind that strats will be changed as the game evolves.

Please refer to Kanji Tatsumi Wiki if you would like to know more indepth information such as frame data etc.

Anything referencing frame data was taken from this image.

The Neutral Game

At neutral you're going to be basically playing the waiting game between yourself and the opponent, Kanji can greatly outspace you with his 5C and will try to make advances after locking you down with 5D, if 5D were ever to connect and you get paralyzed most Kanjis will run up leaving you with nothing but guesses to get out of this situation while we stay on the otherside trying to catch him with our own 5C into a high/low guessing game but its much riskier for us since Kanji can just roll right through and command grab us if we space it improperly.

Offense

Your Offense:

Our offense is pretty limited, using we can't rely on our trademark j.B in this match up that often since Kanji can not only stuff it out with his R-Action but put himself in a very good position that we don't wanna be stuck in. You want to space him out with 5C (if you're too close he can roll through and command grab you out) and then go for the high low mix ups with 214A and Sweep. Don't become too offensive though, if a Kanji player adapts well enough to your habits they can roll through raw 214A/Sweep just as they do 5C and command grab you instantly. Another spacing tool of ours will be 5B, while this pales in comparison to Kanjis ranged tools if we do ours early enough and at the right range we can stuff him out of whatever he tries to do and convert damage off of it.

Finally from full screen we'll have to deal with 5D from Kanji, you can poke in with 236A/B to get a free primer break on his person gauge and a high/low. You can go for the high/low at you're own risk, he can easily R-Action either options and stop us in our tracks, if you can get the primer break leave it at that. Don't get into the habit of throwing this out there, if a smart Kanji player catches on he can jump up and use Bet Ya Can't Take This! (j.214A/B) but once you do get his Persona Broken it will remove his This'll Hurt (214C/D) command grab, R-Action and all of his Persona Normals leaving us with 10 seconds to do damage without too much worries.

His Offense:

Before we get into his offense lets go ahead and and check out the frames for each version of his command grab This'll Hurt (214C/D) and Burn To A Crisp! (214214C/D):

  • 214C: 6-7f (2434 Damage)
  • 214D: 24-25f (2732 Damage / Invinc Frames)
  • 214CD: 2-3f (3034 Damage / Causes Paralysis)
  • 214214C less than 3f from superflash (4321)
    Keep in mind that Labrys also has 9500 health, she can lose nearly 1/3 or 1/4 of her health depending on the version of the command grab used or nearly half from his awakened super, this is what makes grappler characters scary is how easy it is for them to shift the momentum of a match with one move. Here are Kanji's most used offensive options to be wary about aside from his command grab:

    5C
    This move has much more range then anything Labrys has and holds Fatal Counter properties, if you get Counter Hit by this prepare to burst or eat 5-6k otherwise (if your opponent can capitalize on the damage), most Kanjis will use 2C directly after to pull you in however if you IB the initial 5C you can punished with 5A if you're quick enough otherwise its not even worth trying ... 2C also has Fatal Counter properties and can lead to about the same amount of damage. Also keep in mind Kanji has frame advantage after 2C and continue with 5AAA > Cruel Attack B/SB (236B or A/B) both of which give him frame advantage.

    Bet Ya Can't Take This! (j.214A/B)
    This is Kanjis diving air command grab which will hit all airborne and standing opponents, the only way to avoid this is to be crouching. Needless to say we can easily punish this with 2B if were expecting it but on the off chance we do accidentally jump up Kanji can catch us with his this and follow up with Cruel Attack putting us back in a position we don't want to ever be in.

    j.B
    Many Kanjis don't really use j.A coming in so the one to worry about would have to be j.B which has as much range as are own j.B. We can simply 2B if were react in them however we can't assume Kanji will on the off chance he does another move that will be detailed under his defense section.


Defense

Your Defense:
Quite frankly we have no defensive options except to block and guess right. Here are our options:
  • Evasive Action
  • Short Hops > j.A/j.C (especially when in paralysis)
  • Guard Cancel (requires 50 SP)
  • 214214C (requires 50 SP/ Awakened / Can be grabbed out of with 214D or 214214C(?))

Most Kanjis will do 5AAA > Cruel Attack > Optional 5B (-1 on block) and then one of these options:

[*]This'll Hurt (214C/D): Catches those who continue to block and attempt Evasive Action

[*]Gotcha! (236C/D): Catches Jumps / Chicken Blocking

[*]2A: Low / 0 block advanatge but can be special cancelled

[*]AoA: Most won't do this but its a possiblity

[*]2B: Can cancel into Gotcha! (236C/D) and chained from 2A, catches chicken blockers.

[*]5C: Catches short hops

[*]5A: Catches short hops as well

Assuming your get out safely you can either distance yourself from him and go back into neutral or attempt to punish him if you see him continue to push buttons

His Defense:

What we lack Kanji exceeds in here are his defensive options against us:

R-Action What A Pain!

Causes Paralysis if it anytime during its active frames, if we get alittle too happy with our pressure we can throw his out, stop us and paralysis us we have to deal with him up close.

j.C

Approaching us in the air we tend to expect j.B however Kanji has what could be called an Anti - Anti Air. Kanji will jump back while his Persona tackles in. On counter hit it has Fatal Counter properties and causes crumble, this is probably the move you absolutely don't want to get hit with at all. Be wary about trying to 2B him as it could cost you nearly 5-6k(?).

Gotcha! (236C/D)

This is Kanjis Anti Air Command grab and catches most obvious jump in approaches (as well as chicken blockers). This can be followed up into Cruel Attack and put us on knockdown and give Kanji the momentum on us.

Gimmicks and Resets

Not entirely such on what gimmicks he has but thankfully theres a thread dedicated to it for us.

Match Summary

In the end this match up is really about patience, proper spacing and understanding your opponent. Whomever makes the the right decisions first and gets the opponents head will win, both characters have the means to shift momentum of the match however Kanji does more so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just can't deal with Kanji.

If I don't pressure him I can't keep my axe up and he's free to do his gimmicks; If I do pressure him I get thrown for big damage. How do you guys usually deal with Kanji? My strategy usually revolves on staying full screen spamming 5DD 22B/C/D and if he tries to come to me punish his moves.

This is not going very successfully, I do say one thing about the match-up is Kanji's 236B~214B leaves them open to eat a FC 2B to do damage only known to combo videos. However most Kanji player seems to have caught on and aren't spamming it as much since people are Anti-airing more often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'll have more success zoning with stuff like 5C, A Guillotine, 2AB, 5B, 2B, and j.B.

5D just doesn't have the range that 5C does, and off of 5C, you can get a safe mixup with 2AB or Guillotine.

5C as oki is also useful.

His grab is very weak to crossups. IMO, his DP is far more scary.

Back dashing is a good way to bait both out and punish with a dash 5A, or just 5B or 2AB if you're afraid you'll be too late.

Watch out for Kanji's j.C when anti-airing.

And always make sure you aren't doing the same thing to zone. If Kanji is wise, he will get in. Unless he's bad, then spam whatever works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watch his meter very closely. If he hits 25...be EXTREMELY cautious with throwing out moves period.

He can pretty much EX air lunge for free, or worse...if you are spacing him with 5C he can roll -> EX command throw.

Also, learn the timing on the DP...its vital that you don't get zapped when trying to punish it and missing the timing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you see him roll into throw to punish a 5c, just dp. unless his spacing is godlike, your dp is throw invul so he will lose for CH.

my 2 cents:

i tend to bait dp early. i want him to think before just doing a ton of dp's. so like...22 series empty jump, or 5c from a range i can punish his roll-throw or 2a wait AoA or something.

stay grounded at neutral. 5b 5c and 2b are all crazy useful. being patient is usually what you need to do here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This matchup is so fun.

He can't get to us air to air thanks to AirD.

Max Range 5B to 5C is gdlk.

IB 3rd or last hit if he uses AAA combo as a blockstring

Fullscreen be ware take lightning, if you get caught and like EVERY netplay Kanji they will think "hey free command grab!" if he goes for it and. You are paralyzed, remain calm and short hop.. If you short hop too early and he's still in grab animation... Delay your landing with airC.

Don't be afraid of him, stay out of his grab/attack range and keep knocking him down.

Oh please please PLEASE crouch his command air throw lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Supposedly 214C is 5 frames and 214C+D is 3, but much more important than that is that 214214C/D is active During the super flash. Please make note of that so no one misunderstands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Supposedly 214C is 5 frames and 214C+D is 3, but much more important than that is that 214214C/D is active During the super flash. Please make note of that so no one misunderstands.

I was looking at the Kanji boards and stumbled upon those numbers where players were testing for frame data, its under Kanji's offense in the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
your dp is throw invul so he will lose for CH.

Yes and no. He can 214D through you DP, even delayed 214D. Fun

Charge DP - risk getting blocked into 5k fatal combo

Don't charge DP - risk getting thrown into into 3-4k + oki

Don't DP - still get thrown hahaha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes and no. He can 214D through you DP, even delayed 214D. Fun

Charge DP - risk getting blocked into 5k fatal combo

Don't charge DP - risk getting thrown into into 3-4k + oki

Don't DP - still get thrown hahaha

if he does 214d, you just wait a sec to do it, then full charge dp

its a call out though.

matchups silly lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was looking at the Kanji boards and stumbled upon those numbers where players were testing for frame data, its under Kanji's offense in the OP.
It is easy as heck to demonstrate, most people have probably already noticed.

Active during the super flash is actually kinda important, it makes it so that the move is Actually effective against blocking. It is factually too late to jump as of the super flash, wherever the numbers come from this is a fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×