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MikelAL93

[P4A] Yukiko vs. Chie

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Discuss the matchup between childhood friends Yukiko and Chie here.

Matchup Summary

Yukiko's Tools

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans:

Dia:

Agi and Maragi:

Chie's response to them

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans:

Dia:

Agi and Maragi:

Chie's Tools

Yukiko's response to them

The verdict of this matchup

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It wont go under it but if you space it right, you trigger the counter and she just goes flying into the air without touching you.

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To my knowledge, I don't think Dia counters anything (but I haven't tried the specials yet) that Chie throws out. As a tip, I know that if you're blocking her auto-combo, you can Dia right before she lands the stomp on the spiral-kick (if that's not her auto-combo, I stand corrected) to knock her back.

Chie's mix-up is what gets me. Most of them I've ran into use two combos: the auto-combo and a combo that breaks off into a sweep after the third hit. The tricky part I've found to the former is that the spiral-kick is actually high, then the stomp after it is low (and there might be one more high, I'm not sure).

Also, maybe I'm just bad, but I have a harder time landing my AoA BnB (j.B->j.B->j.C->JC->j.B->j.C->Agi) on her. It seems almost like her hitbox in the air is different, and if it is, I'd like to bring that to people's knowledge.

I haven't seen it yet, but I'm trying to figure out if Chie's Jam-kick will pierce through fans. I've been wary of it, since one of my favorite things to do to Chies that don't get in is keep them at full-screen with fan-spam and Agi. Either way, unless there's something I don't know, it seems like at full-screen, it wouldn't connect, and is punishable by 5C anyway. Obviously, their answer to this is generally their Awakened SP move followed by a rushdown, so it's probably not in your best interest to do this if she's low.

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i think the best thing to do is to stay out of her airdash range. because she moves so fast, letting her get in once with a badly placed fan will be the death of you. so frustrating her at ranges where she won't reach with a single airdash will make her try other avenues where you will have more control over her.

always remember when they have more movement options in the air (if they double jump, they have to fall)

respect her wakeup (use the safe jump). CH fist super = death

don't ever dia to avoid the meteors. super jump and block if you are in neutral (to avoid high/low mixup she gets)

setting yourself up defensively with a TK Agi can help, but it does kill your neutral game a bit to do that, probably best to utilize after a knockdown from 236B

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A lot of this is me trying to be better at understanding this game, so I hope I can get some feedback.

This match seems to be all about spacing correctly, and timing your attacks early enough.

Most of the moves you'll see from her are faster than Yukiko's startup wise, so if you're not outranging them or reading your opponent well you're going to lose whatever trade you try to go for. Making Chie super jump is great because it keeps her from using her annoying air dash. If she hasn't dashed, and isn't super jumping she can cross most of the screen in the air if you stand your ground, meaning you'll either need to throw out a move or retreat/defend (If you can get away without defending though, always do that)

C Version of Black Spot unless you are predicting that she'll use black spot, you have to block. Unless you can react within 8 frames of it happening, otherwise she'll recover at the same time at best, or before you and punish your dodge. Dia will be easily punished.

D Version of Blackspot can be rolled through and punished, it's startup is twice as long (26 frames) 11 active frames, with 18 frames of recovery. So if you start early enough you can punish, and at the very last moment the worst that will happen is that a 5A will be out the moment you finish your roll.

SB Version has armor, shorter startup than d, and if you dodge before near the very end you're completely safe. Don't forget there are 2 frames of vulnerability at the start of a roll. Because I did not know that until now.

Wakeup godhand is invicinbile until a few frames into the recovery so if you don't get hit by it it's easily punishable with 42 frames of recovery.

You can try to catch her coming in with j.C either backturned if you're going early, or facing her if you're going late, but choose the wrong option and you will be on the defensive. Also because of her speed if you try to call Sakuya once you hit the ground you'll be punished.

When Chie's in Awakening she loves her meteors of course, letting go of agi after it is active will punish and give you the time to not deal with her mixups. So I like to keep one on her whenever possibile from full screen.

All out attack is punishable though I think she has Oki options to make it safe? But if her persona isn't up and you block it, treat yourself you deserve it.

When Chie is dashing in and falling on top of you catch her j.C (The downward slash) with 2A, she'll be in recovery and will take the hit, unless she does her j.C Deep enough, but I think they try to do the j.C early to avoid the recovery? Not entirely sure. But a 5A will get beaten out I think pretty cleanly.

When you're in the corner be patient, and be careful when trying to get out. Sometimes what looks like a wonderful escape opportunity is her just waiting for that vulnerable air dash.

This is me trying to expand my knowledge of frame data.

Chie's 5A is +1 on block, -1 on Instant block, and is active at the 4th frame, making it incredibly fast and so that it beats out all your options. If you aren't instant blocking it she can punish your dash even if she completely whiffs another attack (18 frames for the full move, vs your 33 for your evasion). Backdash is 29 frames but invulnerable long enough that you won't get hit by the 5A. I don't know if she can punish your backdash :/ I can't figure out if the remaining 11 frames after whiffing her 5A is enough to chase you down, but I don't think so?

Also when you're getting Oki'd in the corner, when Chie jumps into the air during the Oki, is the worst time to try and burst. Stop it!

EDIT: Another thing is while her DP is fast and hard to figure out sometimes, it's not safe enough that she can use it to get out of D Agidyne after a knockdown. So you can use it to pull her into the corner with good timing.

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A really difficult match for me here.

I'm sure you may have heard Chie say to Yukiko "I know every trick up your sleeve!" at one interval..and after fighting this chick, I swear Chie isn't lying. She doesn't have to respect you. At ALL.

 

You see, Chie's normals, Persona attacks, hell--EVERYTHING of Chie's is quite faster than Yukiko's, so Yukiko is going to have to make proper reads in order keep on par with Chie. Normally, when I see an opportunity, I always throw out an attack when I can, and I don't really think that's very advised, since Chie can DP you to shame, or even throw out and even faster move resulting in a CH (for example, Chie's j.5A/j.5B beats out Yukiko's j.5A). At the same time though, while it is preferred to think twice about every move you throw out against Chie, you don't want to find yourself ultimately holding back and guarding all of Chie's attacks, because it then becomes that of an awful guessing game and you will hate every second of it. Long ranged attacks are alright for testing the waters, and throwing fans from mid-to full screen wouldn't hurt either...just brace yourself for how exactly Chie will approach you and respond with the proper attack. If she comes in from the air, use a properly placed fan to do the trick--but don't let her double jump trick you. If Chie comes in through a roll or dash, watch out for her DP and try to keep her at bay with 5C or 2C. You can throw Chie while she's rolling, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

When Chie has meter, you're going to hate life. She now can literally super through any and EVERYTHING you can do--5A, 2B, 5C, Fire Boost--you name it, Chie can beat it with super. Alas, you may find a few Chie players following this tactics; others like to keep theirs for a combo ender or something like that. Just beware of any moves you put out, and if you can, you can even try to bait their super, which you can roll through and punish, or use Yukiko's Agidyne super to punish. Note that with C Agidyne, you will have to activate it as soon as your see the God Hand fist coming for you, because if you do it too early, you'll get hit.

Chie's Awakening super is a pain to deal with, because it allows her to 2DD into oki, all the while cornering you. DO NOT DIA *early* through this move, as Chie can punish you for it. Just block it and try to sort out Chie's attacks, or, if you have enough distance, at the very last minutes of Agneyastra you can roll past Chie as she's coming for you and the meteors are flying and only risk being hit by one. If you sense Chie attempting to throw out an attack while you are blocking, you can use Dia's first frames to negate the attack, blow her away and gain some quick health back. You won't have to worry about the meteors; by the time Chie gets up, or rushes you down, they will have disappeared.

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I notice that a lot of top Yukiko players tend to level up fire boosts a lot in this MU, I'm assuming it's to compete w/ her damage. Personally, this match-up isn't that bad in my experience. The Chies' I have played seem to have trouble dealing with full screen pressure. However, if you allow them to get in, it's gonna hurt getting her off. The only way I've gotten her off is by guessing and landing a DP; sometimes I have to use my burst. Not the best or safest way, but sometimes it's the only way to get her off. Try to be conservative w/ your Burst in this MU too so you can have a reliable option to get her off and don't get baited because if you do, you're done.

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