[P4A] Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys

[MikelAL93]

Discuss the matchup between Yukiko and Labrys' shadow self here.

Matchup Summary

Yukiko's Tools

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans:

Dia:

Agi and Maragi:

Shadow Labrys' response to them

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans:

Dia:

Agi and Maragi:

Shadow Labrys' Tools

Yukiko's response to them

The verdict of this matchup

[Akita]

if anyone has a good strategy for the worst possible Yukiko match up, I am all ears. I do know that

1) Fans do not allow that monstrosity of a persona to break

2) Agi can break it, so place them accordingly

[ewic]

The problem I have, as a noob, is how to stop a simple jump B pressure. If SLabrys or Labrys just jumps at me and spams B, i have no legit counter to it other than blocking. I could push block, but if I have no meter than that's not an option. SLabrys is even more annoying because with her persona out all the time, I can't fan her, or I usually eat some persona beam or something.

What is the basic idea of what to do in this matchup?

[choysauce]

i feel like you have to play crazy in this match, and counter hit S.lab in order to break persona cards. i don't think fans should ever be used in this match unless it's a combo,

try to throw out agi's when you feel safe. other than that RTSD

[ewic]

If s.labrys ever sits down, don't get baited into pushing a button. She's usually making her persona do something, either an up-punch, horizontal punch, or beam. Beware of the grab. Dashing is okay cuz you can block as soon as you see the persona do anything, but really I think just a Agi(b) would be the safest. IDK if it will break or interrupt the persona in the middle of anything.

slabrys actually has a lot of trouble from full screen, it's just the giant persona that gives yukiko problems.

[susano]

First time I played a competent Shadow Labrys today on my alternate. Had some trouble with this matchup. Definitely cannot use fans in this matchup because her persona blocks it. Any other advice would be helpful.

[Thelo]

There's one Shadow Labrys setup I just can't understand how to defeat. She ends some combo with air guillotine, which means I wake up next to her. She sets her persona grab such that it will grab me right on wakeup if I don't jump or Dia, while she jumps over me and does either jump B (if I jump / hop) or airblock (if I Dia). Then both options result in another air guillotine to reset the mixup.

What am I missing here? Is there a free ticket out of this or should I resign myself to hoping the Shadow Labrys messes up their jump B / airblock reaction, and coinflip a jump / Dia?

[Thelo]

Ok, correction: the S. Labrys actually does a very early, while-rising jump A, itself canceled into jump B if the A didn't ram into Dia. So that actually is waterproof against both jumps/hops AND Dia. So uh, what can I do here, once I'm in that vortex? It's like a giant recurrable option select of doom.

[Ryd']

So what happens if you delay your tech?

[Thelo]

Haven't tried that yet! I'll try delaying tech next time.

[Ciddypoo]

If I'm thinking about the setup you're thinking about -- I get grabbed if I tech too late.

[Thelo]

Yeah, I tried staying on the ground a bit longer, and that just got me thrown. Perhaps I must delay the tech just a tiny bit, but still tech before the grab gets active...

[Achtzehn]

I'm not trying to troll, I'm dead serious. Pick a different character for this matchup, this is literally unwinnable if the slab plays it right (which is not hard at all for them to do). Having only two moves that can stop the persona, and the fact that the persona itself stops all your zoning essentially, just makes this such a bad matchup that I can't see anyone feasibly winning it. You have a better chance trying to land IK to win this match than playing like a JP god.

[Thelo]

I did lose my last two local tourneys to S. Labrys, ugh. It's really hard. I'm incredibly wary of claims like "literally unwinnable" though.

[choysauce]

you can win in this matchup, part of it is taking advantage of the fact that slab can kinda do whatever she wants.

even the competent slabs i've run into tend to get wreckless in this matchup, cuz it feels so free. you have to pick the spots where slab gets in front of her persona and use those opportunities to hit her to knock out cards as opposed to attacking the persona directly

holding the persona hostage with B agi's is also pretty good depending on how comfortable the player is with losing their cards.

the optimal ranges for this match feel like about full to 1/2 screen. 1/2 screen is where you go to bait slab to come to you. (it's how i play it anyway)

[Ciddypoo]

What exactly do you bait from full to 1/2 screen? She's always just one j.B away from closing the gap, and from that range she can 8C or shoot lasers to cover the approach if you're too far away.

[choysauce]

the bait is for her to get in front of her persona and tag her with fans, also you can back off to try to get them to push persona buttons, back off and B agi or maragi the recovery

you mix up whether you are actually going in or not. it is dangerous but i play very impatiently lol. i do fairly well against high psr slabs. i don't feel the "this matchup is impossible" notion from this fight. (i get that with the yosuke fight >.<)

[Ciddypoo]

Most times when Slab players attack me from neutral they're covering their attack with Asterius. And it's pretty hard to tag j.B with fans. j.A seems to be the only good response to j.B stuff.

If you don't go in, you can't pressure them because Asterius eats fans. If you go in, Asterius eats your covering stuff (like j.D) and you're a roll away from being sandwich-packed.

Bopping the opponent with Dead Angles while they're pressuring when Asterius is active helps break the Persona. Usually when I win against Slab it's cause I break the Persona and immediately go for beefy OMB combos if I touch them while their Persona is broken. Even with just 25 meter you can get quite a bit off of her low health. That's the same kind of approach I take with Yosuke, though his Persona doesn't break as often and he can still fly around the screen like a little gnat even without Jiraiya.

[Chun]

This match is strictly terrible for Yukiko if you're playing a very competent S.Lab. Very high risk, very low reward, no safe strategy. Highly suggest pocketing a character just for this matchup in serious play, because the amount of reads you have to land is straight up mind blowing.

Otherwise, you're going to have to hope S.Lab gets impatient. Dia is banned for the most part unless you can read it. Agi will not shatter the shield for S.Lab's hand no matter what the boost. You either get a clean hit in or you back off and try to shatter cards at expense of trading a few hits. Then go in hard when she's broken. Always watch for the S.Lab persona to sink under. If you're at full screen and can't see it, be smart, block, don't jump, don't boost. Make them dance for you, don't dance for them. Agi B smartly, Maragi C as it keeps you at less static difference. Don't waste your meter mid to close with SB Agi because you lose the trades; they're always closer to you and that's what they want. Minimal harassment.

j.B at most points is not recommended except during whiffed persona normals or general summoning setup. Stick to the floor and block. Block. Block.

[bingsoo]

I really have no idea what to do in this matchup. It feels like Yukiko's options are all pretty much useless against Slab. Agi B will force Slab to rush in, which makes me try to keep her out with fans. Her persona causes so much problems, by the time I can break it, I'm pretty much already dead. Help would be greatly appreciated!

[Ciddypoo]

This is one of the worst matchups in the game, so it's always gonna be trouble.

Breaking Asterius is pretty important, but you still have to respect Slab even when she doesn't have her Persona. Her j.B is still very strong, and her DP isn't bad like regular Labrys. Fans still have their place in the matchup, if only to keep the Slab hiding behind the Persona guard.

One of the things you have to be very aware of is Asterius' position at all times. If you see the bull disappear, you need to figure out what it's doing -- most of the time it's the uppercut that comes from the ground, and I find that the best way to avoid that is to superjump away and throw a fan or j.D. In this case, the fan is actually able to 'zone' Slab, because Asterius isn't around to block it.

Keep an eye on Asterius and look for opportunities to break it with a quick Agi (when it's about to do a laser is usually a good one), but be mindful of the ranges that Slab can just airdash over and j.B you.

Maragi from anywhere but max range is extremely dangerous because of a quick airdash j.B, and even at max range she can still get to you, so don't count on it as a deterrent against airdashes. Similar to regular Labrys, air Agis can at least give you some control over Slab j.Bs.

When Slab activates her awakening super, try and break the Persona somehow. Your own awakening super (Maragidyne) is pretty good at doing this, and imo it's worth the meter if you can stop the guessing game Slab gets when she buffers the commands.

One of Slab's weaknesses is her low health, so running away to build stocks and looking for a prime opportunity to kill her in one or two combos is a definite strategy. Just don't get too greedy; if you can do damage, then do it. Just that when you build 4+ stocks and suddenly turn on fire break, you are seriously threatening to such a low health character. Watch for Slab tendencies to block when they're under pressure. If they're sitting on an Asterius block, they usually get pretty comfortable just sitting around, so try throwing.

[gli]

Airthrow is actually one of your best tools in this match-up. Yukiko is fairly fast at catching people and it helps that Shadow Labrys will be mostly jumping due to how her commands work.

[gli]

Aside from that your fans are pretty much useless. Situational Agi / Maharagi can help you make room to breathe. Agi shots can snipe her Persona pretty well. Otherwise just guard because your life does depend on it. Chomp okizeme is hard to deal with, just have to take the gamble and hope you can get out.

[hipikachu]

I guess I'll join the fray as well. So, based on previous posts, is there really no way out of this magical option select other than superhuman tech delays? Based off of what I've seen of the matchup so far, it's way too easy for Slab to get that one knockdown that could potentially end the match right there and then.

[Pyry Von Quies]

Alright, so dealing with Shadow Labrys...

A lot of people say this is Yukiko's worst MU, but personally, I disagree. I have a much harder time with Chie, Labrys and Liz, but that's just me. In any case...

 

When dealing with Asterius, Agis and Maragis are definitely a way to go; use a super to get rid of him if you have to--without him, it'll be more easier to deal with S.Lab. If you have a hard time breaking him, just watch him very carefully, and if he disappears from the screen, DO NOT BLOCK (blocking the move, 8C, will leave you in enough blockstun to let S.Lab come along and introduce her pressure), but simply towards S.Lab and either show S.Lab some dance moves, or prepare for the worst. Your best bet is to not get hit by Asterius and dodge whatever he throws at you so that you can focus solely on S.Lab, whom he can't do anything for as long as you're on the offensive.

Dealing with S.Lab herself is pretty annoying, although I enjoy fighting this version of Labrys rather than the original one. Your biggest issue with S.Lab will probably be her j.5B, as its hitbox is very wide, very stupid, and is extremely hard to punish should it whiff. What I do is simply roll past it, watch for the first few frames and Dia so that she's on the other side of the screen, or, tricky enough, throw out a well placed fan for a nice CH combo starter. The fan option is hard though, since S.Lab's hitbox is big. I personally hate S.Lab's DP, as its mighty fast on startup, but once you anticipate it coming, you can use Dia's first frames to negate the attack (just be careful, because S.Lab can cancel this move into a super), roll past it to make it completely whiff and get a nice CH combo started, or use supers (I highly recommend D Agidyne and C Maragidyne). Even Yukiko's IK will work against S.Lab's DP! Also, if you happen to have found yourself knocking S.Lab at fullscreen, don't panic. As long as Asterius isn't around, you still have the advantage. Follow up with 3D and...if she blocks it, air dash towards her for a nice little j.5A/2A guessing game (watch out for her DP!). Otherwise, if she tries to roll through it, meet her in the middle and make her regret that decision.

Because Yukiko is very proficient at zoning, this makes her matchup with S.Lab very notorious and unforgiving because S.Lab has the power to trap Yukiko in numerous setups and have her way with her in all sorts of ways, but don't forget that Yukiko can fight it off and show S.Lab who she's messing with. Next time you fight S.Lab, be bold; go in swinging and stay on the offensive and see how they respond. Don't back away and completely rely on zoning to help you out, because this is where the match could be decided...