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LM_Akira

Order-Sol vs. Potemkin

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Here's some things I wanted to bring up / note / point out.

The 2 things that should probably worry you the most in this fight are Potemkin Buster and Slide Head. Since PB now has an FRC point, if (when?!) Potemkin lands a PB and has bar he can do monstrous damage in a few seconds and also set you up for the 6HS, slide head wakeup game. That means big damage in midscreen for him now. PB can grab limbs randomly and has horrendous range, so even when you're doing a short block string on him it's possible for him to PB YOU out of your attacks. Watch out for other PB tricks like backdash, PB and hammerfall break, PB. It may sound obvious repeating this old information but it's good to be aware of it I feel.

Slide head loops are nasty if you get caught in one without a burst. Potemkin won't be throwing these out too randomly close up (as you can actually block it then) but it is a constant threat you need to watch for. To stop yourself being hit by slide head in open play you have a few options:

1) Backdash

2) Jump

3) Charge Burst

4) Fafnir

5) BRP/SV

{6) Standing FD but it's a HOS glitch lol}

Back dash is obvious as you're airborne (and have some form of invincibility) as the slide head hits the ground. Jumping is also another basic option which is relatively risk free. If you're charging, a charge burst timed correctly will avoid the ground hit through invincibility, as will Fafnir which has lower body invincibility during start up. Depending on the range, it's possible to score counter hits against slide head when using Fafnir, giving you a free combo. You can BRP or SV on reaction (provided you're not already doing something) but back dashing is probably a lot safer. Lv3 BRP may score you a free combo depending on the range.

If you get knocked down and Potemkin throws out 6HS as oki you can either reversal SV it or backdash. Backdash is hard against 6HS because if you're out by a few frames or your opponent's timing is a little off you can still end up being tagged by the move and taking considerable damage. But it's probably worth learning to reversal backdash on wakeup because Potemkin can also use Giganter as a mixup instead of 6HS...both can lead to him getting in slide head and then getting his otg stuff in, if they are blocked. SV won't work vs giganter but backdash does.

Bizarrely it is actually better to let 6HS hit than block it on wakeup as it stops Potemkin from canceling into guaranteed slide head. But ideally you should watch out for what Potemkin goes for and either backdash or SV. SV can be easily baited however, even punished with things like judge gauntlet if you become too predictable. So it comes down to your opponent and what exactly they like to do.

If you have a burst and are going to use it to escape a loop, the best time to burst is just as he goes for the otg 5K, it should leave you in a decent (read "safe") position.

Overall I think this matchup can be approached from 2 distinct standpoints. One being rather defensive, holding back and charging up to make the most of your higher levels and the other being all out rushdown and mixing things up as quickly and as much as possible. Watch for his anti air 6P which can lead into either basic short retaliation combos or nasty tech traps. He has big range on his 5HS, 2D and 6HS (obviously!) as well as a few other things. His 2S now vacuums which can be a right pain sometimes and really helps out his combos.

Taking damage off him is like fighting a tank as usual but you can land pretty solid combos on him near the corner. Multiple j.Ps or any fast jump in will stuff his super armour on hammer fall, just don't try to ground poke it when he's right in your face as you can often end up taking the hit.

That's what I've come up with so far I guess.

Originally posted by WUT:

One little correction for the Potemkin part, otherwise it all sounds decent. If Pot is using 6HS on wakeup then just learn to IB it. You can then either backdash or jump the Slide Head. Sure, it's harder than just getting hit by it (bad idea; leads to potentially being dizzied if he gets another big hit in), or just using SV (6HS FRC exists for a reason and reversal shoryu just begs for Potty to PB or 2HS for the punish), but it's easier than trying to reversal backdash and taking the risk of getting hit anyhow. Also: 2S rocks this fight, Fafnir rocks this fight, and don't pretend HOS has a ground to air anti-air against Pot; he doesn't. J.P all the way.

Also Also: the FD glitch against Slide Head only works when you're not in guard stun. 6HS xx Slide Head will still work normally; random Slide Heads from full screen doesn't.

Edit: FD Glitch: FD while *standing* (and not in guard stun). If you're at the range where Slide Head is an unblockable (aka not physically hit by Potemkin, where Slide Head is a low) you will completely avoid it. Have to be standing; crouching leads to a normal unblockable Slide Head.

Originally posted by TITANIUM BEAST!!!:

I've noticed that Potemkin players are opting out of 6HS oki now and going instead for really meaty Slide Head at the unblockable distance. Remember that you can reverse this with Fafnir for free if you are in range. As far as 6HS oki, I would always SV it unless I see the opponent has meter to FRC the move; there's no reason to IB and attempt a backdash or jump away when you can reverse for free. You can also do Gun Blaze under 6HS on wakeup, but if the 6HS is done early enough, his fists will retract before the flame becomes active, so be careful when using it.

Originally posted by WUT:

6K is decent for oki, but beware when he has 50%. Reversal Giganter is a free CH on 6K. If he doesn't have 50%, a simple reversal backdash can completely whiff 6K and score him a free PB during recovery. GB is a pretty crappy idea too. FDB and reversal backdash pretty much take away any initiative you get from GB. The safest oki tends to come from deep jump-ins, primarily j.S (for potential fuzzy guard) and j.HS. Both are safe against Giganter and reversal backdash, and both force pot to guard.

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if potemkin likes to 6HS on meaty just IB it and jump away or if you want you can buffer the fafnir during the blockstun and use it while he does slide head. Fafnir lower body invuln will make this completely safe, but the technique itself is pretty risky. train yourself to 6K when he does a hammerfall break. this beats PB with a CH stagger, heat with a CH stagger (I think), but loses to 5k or whatever other poke he throws out. this isn't the safest option (what is lol), but it's definitely an above average one. when you wake up, just block (which I'd advise most of the time). BUT, if you see him doing a slidehead on your wakeup, Fafnir and show him what's good. SV will get beat if he does a late j.S, and watch out for tick busters. just some things I saw in your post and thought I should comment on. oh, and gunblaze as AA is good. and j.p spam is lulz.

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Most uppers will not win against properly timed meaty jumpins on wakeup. With SV it probably depends on the level as it gets faster the higher your level. Level 1 is 12 frames startup, level 2 is 10 and level 3 is 8.

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A quick note that's obvious: if you get a counter hit with fafnir on slide head, you could go for a lvl 3 BR, dash j.hs, j.d, dj. hs, j.d, lvl. 1 BRP. Does wonders for you in a battle because Potemkin can damage Order Sol horribly with his 2K, 2S, 2H combo. Just thought this should be mentioned.

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CH Fafnir should be followed up with a Dust Loop. Against Potemkin, you can get 2 reps easily from halfway to the corner or closer.

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As long as the normal is fast enough and executed properly, most jump ins can be safe. Potemkins dont just sj because they get more options, but because in general it negates most characters' wake up options as well. I love safe jump in meaties too much probably, and only really nail them like half the time(lol I suck). I like them vs sol/robo/any one who likes to reversal on wake up. I think you can even use them to beat back dashing, especially the longer ones.

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Just wanted to ask after some 40-50 matches against Potemkin just now.. Do you guys believe the matchup is 5-5? Things no doubt have changed since AC came out...

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Saw something interesting today. I played a Potemkin player today and noticed something crazy. Lvl 1 RI (if done close enough) can beat Slide Head if timed right. Actually, i might as well say RI beats Slide Head! Have to do it right, though. Otherwise, Timmy will slay you!

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It was crazy when i saw it.

you might be able to produce the same result by dashing as it hits the ground

since that dashing goes thru slayers 2H alot

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you might be able to produce the same result by dashing as it hits the ground

since that dashing goes thru slayers 2H alot

I also just saw GB beat out Judge Gauntlet.

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Of course gb can beat out judge gauntlet if you do it close enough. It's the same as when you gb under hammer fall. He can't hit you if you're not there. Yes, RI can beat slide head, but if you're that close you probably have some tension, and you know what else beats slide head? Fuckin' fafnir. Never look a gift fafnir in the mouth. This is especially good against pots that like to do meaty slide heads from just out of the range you could normal block it. The reversal timing doesn't give you a ch, but if you're close enough you can get an iad combo, and in the worst case scenario that's 100dmg and a kd on the big man. I don't like rocketing against pot that much actually, unless I know hes gonna block it. the risk of getting randomly knocked down in a trade, and even plain the damage you take trading with pot is never in your favor, and if he sees it and hammerfalls, gg your face. As I said in that other thread, this matchup is about 2 key factors: Not IADing into 6p, and not getting pot bustered. Every thing else he can do to you is easily avoidable, but if not careful, puts you in position for one of the two above mentioned very bad outcomes. You also don't want to get knocked down close to him, but if that happened you probably got 6ped or bustered so I stand by my point. jp beats the aa grab if you jump and he tries to yomi grab you. basically, just try to be airborne a lot, or I should say smartly. When you find your self in a position in your offense where continuing pressure on the ground opens a window for buster, jp. Kind of the same for on the defensive, but you have more options. you can jump and punch, get him with sv, sj, ect. We have a lot of options, but some times it's hard to think when blocking pot pressure because the only thing going on in your head is "DON'T LET HIM GRAB MEEEEEEE". If pot didn't take so long to kill it would actually be a pretty good matchup for hos, but alas, where 1 mistake can kill you as hos, he's going to have to make a lot regardless of how manly your combos are.

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Of course gb can beat out judge gauntlet if you do it close enough. It's the same as when you gb under hammer fall. He can't hit you if you're not there.

Yes, RI can beat slide head, but if you're that close you probably have some tension, and you know what else beats slide head? Fuckin' fafnir. Never look a gift fafnir in the mouth. This is especially good against pots that like to do meaty slide heads from just out of the range you could normal block it. The reversal timing doesn't give you a ch, but if you're close enough you can get an iad combo, and in the worst case scenario that's 100dmg and a kd on the big man.

I don't like rocketing against pot that much actually, unless I know hes gonna block it. the risk of getting randomly knocked down in a trade, and even plain the damage you take trading with pot is never in your favor, and if he sees it and hammerfalls, gg your face.

As I said in that other thread, this matchup is about 2 key factors: Not IADing into 6p, and not getting pot bustered. Every thing else he can do to you is easily avoidable, but if not careful, puts you in position for one of the two above mentioned very bad outcomes. You also don't want to get knocked down close to him, but if that happened you probably got 6ped or bustered so I stand by my point. jp beats the aa grab if you jump and he tries to yomi grab you.

basically, just try to be airborne a lot, or I should say smartly. When you find your self in a position in your offense where continuing pressure on the ground opens a window for buster, jp. Kind of the same for on the defensive, but you have more options. you can jump and punch, get him with sv, sj, ect. We have a lot of options, but some times it's hard to think when blocking pot pressure because the only thing going on in your head is "DON'T LET HIM GRAB MEEEEEEE".

If pot didn't take so long to kill it would actually be a pretty good matchup for hos, but alas, where 1 mistake can kill you as hos, he's going to have to make a lot regardless of how manly your combos are.

Im aware fafnir does! The reason i mention gb was because it scores an evade and a free hit.

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just wondering, i believe that i saw 6K having throw invincibility. is it possible to predict a PB and use 6K within PB 1 - 21 frames?

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Yes, but it's not that great. Afaik it doesn't even CH Potemkin and next to that Potemkin can out prioritize that normal with one of his own which then goes into nice damage and resets the situation just like the potbuster would.

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are BHB lvl 3 good against him if he tries to come in your space, i figured that it would be good to distant yourself until you find good opportunities.

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jp/2s is good enough to keep him at bay, u don't want to blow l3 moves just for spacing, OS need to get in and keep him pressured

No, that's a good way to die:P If you're in a spot where you'll just keep hitting him, go for it. But when the situation turns semi neutral or completely neutral you don't want Potemkin to know what he should be doing. If he attacks you can generally beat him out with one of your own things. If he defends, DO NOT ATTACK HIM you'll get backdashed on and punished in no time not to mention that by backdashing randomly, Potemkin gets range advantage over OS (like nearly any other character does).

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Yeaaaah...everytime I play this match-up I hate it more and more :( The only times I win this are when I pour literally all my tension into FRCing BHB or BRP to keep level 2 and rushdown going.

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well i meant to say use bhb lvl 3 if he tries to get in, but i see what your saying. i got a question, 1.anymove can OS do for crossovers? 2. Anyone know any good loops against Big Pot?

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