[CP] Bang Gameplay Discussion

[GreekAngel]

I really want this to be a legit thing. It'll at least give bang a legit out if we can actually DO IT!

I like giving Bang dumb things don't judge me

[NecroTheReaper]

Lots of things in BB are taking advantage of the devs screw-ups. Biggest case: Kokonoe. And this is less of a glitch and more of an exploit of a small moment of opportunity in Bang's arsenal. Kara cancels in general are somewhat of a glitch, people use em.

[GreekAngel]

Lots of things in BB are taking advantage of the devs screw-ups. Biggest case: Kokonoe. And this is less of a glitch and more of an exploit of a small moment of opportunity in Bang's arsenal. Kara cancels in general are somewhat of a glitch, people use em.

Maybe they should make this a command in the next BB, like Hold D while guardpointung to cancel the attack or something. Ninja trickery.

And Kara Cancels in general are legit

[Lucalibur]

There are hard links, and then there's taking advantage of systems in the game to produce an unexpected outcome.

 

Should be fairly obvious which one this is.

 

If I'm the only one who thinks this is complete BS then they might as well give Hazama another command grab while they're at it.

Look man, I understand you're not really liking this, but please don't act like your opinion on the matter is the only truth there is. Most Bang players would be happy to have this in their arsenal and there are many ocassions in fighters where glitches either become real mechanisms or are left because they add depth to the game or to specific characters.

 

Until we get to see how effective this is in a real match(if we do at all), there is nothing really wrong with it. If it turns out to be fucking broken or some shit(and I mean in PRACTICE, not theory) then sure, I will vote for getting rid of it too.

 

Until there, innocent until proved guilty.

[iw2ma]

@Raxiul
This isn't obvious at all that this is a glitch or and exploit and could've been intended this entire time and nobody found it.  Like that secret Jill tech in Vanilla Marvel 3. The Developers know about it, but no player found it to exploit it.

Also tiers matter entirely. It depends on the game and how it's designed just on how much a tier truly matters. Believing it doesn't matter AT ALL is the joke, everything matters a little bit.
Kokonoe with her entire non-glitch based arsenal would still be a better character, by 4 tiers, than Bang as he is now even if he could cancel all his D's to be safe.  Even with what you deem to be a glitch, this character would be suffering enough to make him a weaker character than over half the cast.

In turn, that means it doesn't matter.  Now if this was say a glitch that allow him to cancel his Ds into unblockable and undodgeable combo starters, THAT would be an issue. But it's not

Entire games have been built around glitches or mechanic abuses that didn't seem possible. Hell Bang being able to DP after 6D in CT wasn't supposed to be a thing, but if you TK it it works. So now the move is added to be like that by default.
Jump Installing in GG was a glitch, that was then kep in and planned around to add more depth. Specifically for Chipp, it's super important.
Marvel 2 was the biggest fighting game in US history for 10 years, the entire evolution of that game came from glitches and accidents.

So not only are glitches, in general, a tolerable and viable thing to use, but it can improve the existence of the game and it's future.  I mean it's why everything's been changed to "game breaking" glitches are to be banned.

This kara-cancel 5D is most likely the smallest and most useless (simply because of how hard it is to do and how often you use 5D as the go-to Guard Point in blockstrings since  it's kind of ass) kara-cancel/glitch ive ever seen, the exact opposite of game breaking. As of right now it's barely advantages.

Get your head out of your ass please, and thank you.

Also Melee is a fine and dandy game, the best competitive platformer out still.


PS - i forgot to add, they need to buff bang anyway. Might as well start with this lol

[Raziul]

You all sound like item dupe apologists. Oh, the glitch is in the game so we're not at fault for using it!

 

It still looks like a blatantly unintended use of the game and character.

 

 

PS - You proved my own statement about Smash Bros., you're right, it's a platformer, not a fighting game.

[ReynTime180]

While I agree that this glitch is obviously not how bangs drive was intended to be used, it's still cool how we are able to do these wacky things with our character, however impossible it might be to pull off

[rei-Scarred]

I'm honestly not the biggest fan of adding a skill gap between Bang players like that. Would be a cool feature if it wasn't stupidly hard to do. I wouldn't mind seeing it patched out but hey I don't go to tournaments what do I know.

[GreekAngel]

Look, if its something viable we can use, then we are going to use it, glitch or not. This seems to be too wonderful of a find to simply say, "Lets get rid of it because its dumb"

It may be hard to execute, but maybe this was left in on purpose? I'm holding up high hopes for this tech and making bang even more viable than he already is. Besides, if it works for 6D, Bang gets a legit meterless out on wakeup.

[Shinsyn]

Been grinding this tech out for hours, it's hard to do but it's probably worth learning it hell, there might be a trick to it that we don't know! I'm getting it at least 50% of the time now.  The only downside to this is that it appears to only work on 5D, so people can still stuff you with lows.  As far as I'm concern, it does not appear to be game breaking also, it's not like it's Kokonoe's Teleport either lol.

 

Glitches have been abused in Fighting Games for a long time, anyone thinking otherwise? LOL!  Besides that fact, it's here, and we might as well make use of it if we decide to put the time into it. Even if it does get patched out, oh well, life moves on, and so will I.

 

I'm actually glad someone found this because it gives me an "out" during some pressure options that won't get me punished for letting 5D > C rip and stay stuck in a pose for half a clock second TBH. Maybe I'm crazy But that's just how I see it.

[NeMo Smash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bgfDJxmBCA anyone have an idea how this is done? if its legit.

 

 

Yeah, i'm sorry I don't finish the tutorial yet, i'm really busy with studies stuff. I have the script, now I have to do the recording and edit all the video. Please, be a bit more patient :3

[vanfleihight]

How to 5D Cancel:

 

1. You must make the opponent's attack land exactly on the 3rd frame of 5D startup, frame 3 being the first frame the guardpoint becomes active.

 

2. After you input 5D you have 14 frames afterward where you are stuck in animation/recovery. You can input commands during this time. It's also important to note you need to input a shadowstep distance before anything else unless you are barrier blocking.

 

    a. Specials can be inputted directly in this 14 frame window and will come out on the 15th frame.

    b. Normals seem to need a barrier cancel and you only input normals after the 14 frames are over.

    c. Supers seem to also need barrier cancel but I can't be sure since I can't input the super fast enough within those 14 frames lol.

    d. Overdrive behaves like specials and can buffer during the 14 frames and activates on the 15th frame..

    e. You can always input barrier to just end up neutral after the 14 frames and be safe.

 

 

Any easy way to practice this is to set Ragna as the dummy.

 

Record the dummy to do 2B > 6B and try to guardpoint 6B and then immediately hold barrier. 5D when his leg looks like this.

 

Short video reference for input display: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJF0LxX12U&feature=youtu.be

 

 

 

[iw2ma]

You all sound like item dupe apologists. Oh, the glitch is in the game so we're not at fault for using it!

 

It still looks like a blatantly unintended use of the game and character.

 

 

PS - You proved my own statement about Smash Bros., you're right, it's a platformer, not a fighting game.

 

It looks like it to you, but not to everyone and not to me. Meaning it doesn't fucking matter now does it.

You sound like a crazy bigot who must have a game be their way or no way, and you're wrong. Simply put.

I not only want this to stay, i want this to be a thing that is regular and in any future version of the game is added in to be a regular use of his D's, like they should've been all along.

[InWithTheAshes]

The very concept of combos in fighting games was originally an unintended use of SF II's mechanics. There's little more proof required than that. The teleport cancels aren't detrimental to the game in any way, and therefore have little reason to be corrected.

[Meximan2.0]

A small thing to note is that bang actually says something unquie you don't hear any other time. Why would the voice actor and developers have him say it. I'm sure they know and wanted ppl to find out

[Lucalibur]

If you mean the quote followed by a scream, that is normal for every time he teleports after a D(You can check by pausing the game after teleporting but before attacking). It's just that the last part gets overrided by the following attack quote.

[SixWingedAngel]

I seriously hope this is legit and can't wait till I start learning it and daifunka every auto-piloting masher's arse ever :P

[NeMo Smash]

How to 5D Cancel:

 

1. You must make the opponent's attack land exactly on the 3rd frame of 5D startup, frame 3 being the first frame the guardpoint becomes active.

 

2. After you input 5D you have 14 frames afterward where you are stuck in animation/recovery. You can input commands during this time. It's also important to note you need to input a shadowstep distance before anything else unless you are barrier blocking.

 

    a. Specials can be inputted directly in this 14 frame window and will come out on the 15th frame.

    b. Normals seem to need a barrier cancel and you only input normals after the 14 frames are over.

    c. Supers seem to also need barrier cancel but I can't be sure since I can't input the super fast enough within those 14 frames lol.

    d. Overdrive behaves like specials and can buffer during the 14 frames and activates on the 15th frame..

    e. You can always input barrier to just end up neutral after the 14 frames and be safe.

 

 

Any easy way to practice this is to set Ragna as the dummy.

 

Record the dummy to do 2B > 6B and try to guardpoint 6B and then immediately hold barrier. 5D when his leg looks like this.

 

Short video reference for input display: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJF0LxX12U&feature=youtu.be

 

Wow, thanks for the frame explanation. Really nice!!

 

Do you mind if i put this explanation in the tutorial?¿ With your name, of course.

[vanfleihight]

Wow, thanks for the frame explanation. Really nice!!

 

Do you mind if i put this explanation in the tutorial?¿ With your name, of course.

Sure

[OmnixTSC]

I hope you guys can get this down to where you can do it somewhat consistently and reliably. This seems like a neat tool to add to your arsenal. 

 

As far as whether or not it's a glitch goes...I think it's not? It's basically just kara-canceling 5D into stuff. It's not like it beats all options or anything absurd. Seems perfectly fine to me and could even be a neat little trick hidden for the players to find and utilize. 

[malcha]

Just a quick question, not 100% sure this is the right place but I think it is.

I'm having an incredibly hard time doing the Fist of the Void super.(236236.a)

The odd thing here is I only have trouble with bang is on the left side. All of my normal qcf moves come out fine, all of my other supers come out fine. I have no problems when he's on the right side.

I just can't seem to consistently produce the super when I'm on the left side, everything else works and it's driving me nuts.

 

Is this something anyone else experienced? Am I just weird? It's driving me absolutely insane.

[GreekAngel]

Just a quick question, not 100% sure this is the right place but I think it is.

I'm having an incredibly hard time doing the Fist of the Void super.(236236.a)

The odd thing here is I only have trouble with bang is on the left side. All of my normal qcf moves come out fine, all of my other supers come out fine. I have no problems when he's on the right side.

I just can't seem to consistently produce the super when I'm on the left side, everything else works and it's driving me nuts.

 

Is this something anyone else experienced? Am I just weird? It's driving me absolutely insane.

Its either input readier being complete shit or maybe your inputs are fucked.  I dunno which, but eh.  I'm sure there is a solution somehwere.... I wish I can heeelp T.T

[malcha]

Me too haha. But you've help me plenty, I've been learning like crazy from the bang vids you post. Learning how to properly FRKZ takes so much time. 

Thanks for posting those by the way, huge help!

[Meximan2.0]

How to 5D Cancel:

 

1. You must make the opponent's attack land exactly on the 3rd frame of 5D startup, frame 3 being the first frame the guardpoint becomes active.

 

2. After you input 5D you have 14 frames afterward where you are stuck in animation/recovery. You can input commands during this time. It's also important to note you need to input a shadowstep distance before anything else unless you are barrier blocking.

 

    a. Specials can be inputted directly in this 14 frame window and will come out on the 15th frame.

    b. Normals seem to need a barrier cancel and you only input normals after the 14 frames are over.

    c. Supers seem to also need barrier cancel but I can't be sure since I can't input the super fast enough within those 14 frames lol.

    d. Overdrive behaves like specials and can buffer during the 14 frames and activates on the 15th frame..

    e. You can always input barrier to just end up neutral after the 14 frames and be safe.

 

 

Any easy way to practice this is to set Ragna as the dummy.

 

Record the dummy to do 2B > 6B and try to guardpoint 6B and then immediately hold barrier. 5D when his leg looks like this.

 

Short video reference for input display: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJF0LxX12U&feature=youtu.be

heres something a bit easier. everything you said lines up perfectly except its better to practice vs Tao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfYhiuJ3Vcg&feature=youtu.be

[GreekAngel]

JOYOUS DAY!!  IKEGAMI HATH RETURNED!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6WB6Xp_vc