[CP1.1] Tsubaki Combo Discussion

[Kiba]

I saw that there wasn't a 2 charge 3CC Rapid combo in the compilation, so I tried.

 

[2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [4950 DM] [21% HG]

[2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [5035 DM] [22% HG]

 

Land the j.236D as early as possible so all the air aura hits land. Damage may vary depending on if you hit the enemy with the j.236D projectile before the air aura or not.

 

[2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > 421D(delay) > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [4768 DM] [21% HG]

[2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > 421D(delay) > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [4862 DM] [22% HG]

 

Land the 421D as late as possible so all the ground aura hits land.

 

 

Would a point blank 6BB confirm into mugen be worth it? I'm trying to think of all of these non-CH combos because of how infrequent they are for me.

 

[1 Charge + 50%] 6BB > Mugen > 421D > 236D > 214D > 22D(max) > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [5061 DM] [29% HG]

 

Those combos are nice. I'd go for the ground ender though:

 

[2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC(delay) > 236C > 214B > 22B [4866 DM] [21% HG]

 

That point blank mugen combo is good but again I'd go for ground ender:

 

[1 Charge + 50%] 6BB > 214214D > 421D > 236D > 214D > 22D(max) > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B [4972 DM] [28% HG]

 

 

Oh also you can go straight into 6C if you RC out of 3C instead of 3CC. I think the results are okay.

 

[50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 236C >214B > 22B [3458 DM] [10% HG]

[50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3572 DM] [12% HG]

[50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3670 DM] [12% HG]

 

[1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214D > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [4148 DM] [15% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B [4245 DM] [14% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [4333 DM] [14% HG]

 

[2 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > j.C > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC(delay) > 623C > j.236A > j.214A [4909 DM] [20% HG]

[2 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6C > 421D > 236D > 6CC(delay) > 623C > j.236A > j.214A [5126 DM] [16% HG]

 

Gotta delay the second 6C because if they are too far off the ground they will tech before the followup hits.

 

The problem with these combos is the hitconfirm. If you manage to land a FC you'll be wasting meter.

[chzchan]

The problem with these combos is the hitconfirm. If you manage to land a FC you'll be wasting meter.

 

Yeah, if it does end up being a FC then it will be a huge waste. It is only a FC about 1/4 times for me so it is worth autopiloting 3C > RC > 6C for it to work if I am going for damage/the kill. I can even use this as a pressure string and go for a command grab if they don't barrier because of the step forward from 6C.

 

The entire purpose of the RC is to act as a replacement for a FC, though so I dunno.

[chzchan]

Here have some more not exactly that efficient Rapid combos.

 

[50%] 5CC > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 236C >214B > 22B [3290 DM] [13% HG]

[50%] 5CC > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3423 DM] [14% HG]

[50%] 5CC > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3494 DM] [15% HG]

 

[50%] 6BB > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3167 DM] [12% HG]

[50%] 6BB > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3236 DM] [13% HG]

 

[2 Charge + 50%] 6BB(max range) > 22B > RC > 6C > 421D > 236D > 6C > Command Grab Reset [3297 + 960 DM] [17% HG + 2 Charge]

 

Very effective if you happen to tag your opponent with 6B at its absolute max range. You can't use mugen here and any D specials that aren't 22D will whiff or get blocked. Even with 22D, you can only followup with 236D and a wallbounce will not occur due to range constraints unless you are near the corner. At this range, the followup to 6C will whiff as well, so 421D > 236D out of 6C is a pretty fun option with the loss of damage from 6CC.

 

[50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3281 DM] [11% HG]

[50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3371 DM] [13% HG]

[50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 236C >214B > 22B [3389 DM] [10% HG]

 

[1 Charge + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 214D > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [3686 DM] [13% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [3836 DM] [11% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [3997 DM] [12% HG]

 

[50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 236C >214B > 22B [2976 DM] [10% HG]

[50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3121 DM] [11% HG]

[50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3198 DM] [13% HG]

 

[1 Charge + 50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 214D > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [3566 DM] [14% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [3589 DM] [12% HG]

[1 Charge + 50%] 5B > 22B > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [3724 DM] [13% HG]

 

The 5B confirm while doing the least damage is probably the most useful because you can get the combo going even at the range where 5C/5BB will usually whiff. No point in listing combos that require charge for the other confirms because going into Mugen is more efficient.

 

[Corner + 50%] 5CC > 623C > j.214A(delay) > RC > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [3652 DM] [18% HG]

[Corner + 50%] 5CC > 623C > j.214A(delay) > RC > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3732 DM] [19% HG]

 

Damage and heat gain will definitely vary here depending on how many hits of 6C you land after the rapid. On average I land 5 out of the 6 possible, so that is what is listed. You can even go into j.236A oki if you want just like the regular 623C > j.214A(delay) corner combos. Probably not worth it when you can go into the 236C > 5A > 5C > 2C > etc. combo normally which only does around 400-500 less damage.

[Errol]

I think the 22B RC > 6C thing is actually good though I never use it.

[zaeris]

I don't know if I could justify using rc for 3.3 k damage, I mean 3cc isn't the greatest move or option we have.

[Errol]

you wouldn't use 50 heat to tack on 2k+ damage?

[zaeris]

Well no in general lol maybe if it kill or so. Otherwise I would let just let 3cc finish and just ready for mix up. I rather use rc for mix up but that's just my opinion

[Kiba]

I'm only looking at the 22B, 6BB and 5CC starters with 50% (though I still probably won't use it), everything else is a waste of meter as Chzchan specified.

 

With regards to the combos I specified...I suppose they're an option. If you're sitting on 100 heat that raises an opportunity. Note that the only other method where you can get decent damage from 5CC/6BB is if you go for the 623C > j.214A/j.236A(w) > 5A > 2C > 214B > 22B(w) > IAD combo.

[chzchan]

Some more corner fun because the corner is a resource.

 

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6CC(delay) > 236C > 214B > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [3944 DM] [17% HG]

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6CC(delay) > 236C > 214B > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [4015 DM] [18% HG]

 

Couldn't really get creative with charge here because everything I could think of only added on about 200 or so damage or didn't require the corner in the first place.

 

[Corner + 50%] 22B > RC > 6C > 623C > 214A(delay) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3498 DM] [11% HG]

[Corner + 50%] 22B > RC > 6C > 623C > 214A(delay) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [3637 DM] [12% HG]

 

[3 Charge + Corner + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 623C > 214D > 6BB > 421D > 236D > 5C(dash) > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B(max) [4414 DM] [18% HG]

[3 Charge + Corner + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 623C > 214D > 6BB > 421D > 236D > 5C(dash) > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A [4521 DM] [18% HG]

[3 Charge + Corner + 50%] 22B > RC > 6CC > 623C > 214D > 6BB > 421D > 236D > 5C(dash) > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [4629 DM] [19% HG]

 

3 charges but it works.

[zaeris]

Just wondering if you've look at the 3cc rc 6c 22b max charge or 3cc rc 6a path

[chzchan]

Just wondering if you've look at the 3cc rc 6c 22b max charge or 3cc rc 6a path

 

Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Thanks for these man. 3CC > RC > 6C > 22B(max) is definitely better.

 

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6C(delay) > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B(max) [3697 DM] [14% HG]

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6C(delay) > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [4107 DM] [17% HG]

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6C(delay) > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [4177 DM] [18% HG]

 

For some reason if you go into 236C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 236B/A it whiffs so ground ender isn't happening. Probably would not be worth due to SMP anyways. Hardest part of this combo is definitely landing all 6 hits of 6C then going into a max charge 22B.

 

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6C(delay) > 22B(max) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [4265 DM] [18% HG]

 

Experimenting with this route made me realize that you can replace any instance of 236C > 5A > 5C > 2CC with 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC and get more damage by completely sacrificing the ground ender option. This one is probably more worth doing because the ground ender does not exist anyway and this route is much easier to pull off.

 

[1 Charge Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6C(delay) > 22D(max) > 6CC > 623C >j.236A > j.214X [4482 DM] [17% HG]

 

Maybe worth it but not really because it only deals ~200 more damage.

 

All of the 6A corner combos I tried out ended up dealing much much less damage than the 6C > 22B(max) combos so I do not think they are worth it at all. I guess they are easier to pull off because 6C > 22B(max) is pretty tricky to get maximum efficiency from in real time, but overall they are just not worth it.

 

For example:

 

[Corner + 50%] 3CC > RC > 6A(delay) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [3558 DM] [15% HG]

 

That's like 600 less damage than the 6C > 22B(max) combo of the same ender type.

 

[50%] 3CC > RC > 6A(delay) > 5C > 2CC > 236A(delay) > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [3338 DM] [15% HG]

 

This one does not require the corner and looks pretty cool. It is sort of difficult because of the timing and spacing required to land 6A after the rapid. It is nearly as efficient as the 3C > RC > 6CC chargeless combo, though which is pretty neat.

[chzchan]

Trying out some more combos utilizing 236X > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C.

 

Here is an alternate to a 1 charge punish combo with 3CC. I think it does slightly less damage than the IAD version. You don't get a ground ender, though because of 214B SMP as mentioned before, so you would rely on the IAD combo mentioned in the gameplay discussion thread for a ground ender.

 

[1 Charge + FC] 3CC > 5C > 2CC > 236D(delay) > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [4169 DM] [29% HG]

[1 Charge + FC] 3CC > 5C > 2CC > 236D(delay) > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A [4111 DM] [29% HG]

[Airk]

So I'm trying to learn this combo:

 

5BB > 5CC > 22D > 6C > CT > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (2A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B

 

And it's pleasantly easy right up until the end where it seems like they are either too high for 236B or they tech before it hits. I managed to land it a couple of times on Ragna, but it never seemed to work Azrael; Is this another character specific one?

[Kiba]

Added: 63214C > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6C > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [3560 DM] [12% HG]

 

Removed two other CG > RC combos because they were very strict in timing.

[zaeris]

@Arik

with testing and etcetera the xx>xx>22d>6c>ct>5c>2cc>236c>5c>2c>236b>214B>22b charged is universal, I did remember kiba posting a while back but going for 5c 2c pick up is quite easy if its just 4 hits after 22d, since you just hit 5c immediately after 236c hits,

 

the keys are> 5c>2cc>236c>  the 236c here needs to be done immediately after 2cc, key one.

key two, after 236c hit 5c immediately, and the rest is easy.

 

why it might fail:

adding 5a/2a then 5c>2c may cause 236b to drop because you add more time to the combo which is near max, you can use 236a to connect earlier or hit 236b>x immediately after 2c.

 

otherwise, just skip the 2a or 5a part since its not really needed and 5c pick up is quite easy if you have enough time proration.

 

On azarel, the combo works fine both with 5a/2a and without, standard combo, also 5a/2a required timing is almost at the last frame few frames before tech-able so at the lowest air point as possible. probably due to 5a>5c>2c lifting your opponent higher together and 236b early active frame will miss. 

 

when you need to use 5a/2a pick up in my opinion is when 2cc doesn't give you the correct height probably due to using 2b>2cc instead of 5c>2cc, because 5c>2cc on grounded opponent gives you the correct height for 236c to hit on the few last active frames giving you the correct recovery time to just land 5c immediately.

[Airk]

Thanks for the feedback;  I seem to be doing a little bit better with this combo, though still nowhere near 'ready for use in a match'.  I'm not sure I can reliably train myself to only do 4 hits from 6C, but doing everything super fast seems to be improving my success rate.  Thanks for checking for me.

[chzchan]

Just an OD cancel grab combo I have been using if I manage to get a grab in near the start of the round. Leaves you with a bit more than 1 charge if you have 100% health.

 

[OD] Grab > OD > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A [3284 DM] [23% HG]

[OD] Grab > OD > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A [3380 DM] [24% HG]

 

Oh also, is there ever a reason to go into Mugen off of a 3CC FC when the CT route exists for 25% heat? I have been trying to figure out an optimized Mugen combo off of 3CC FC, but all of them end up not doing much very more than the CT route.

[Errol]

there aren't really good mugen combos off 3c. the best route would be 3cc>5c > mugen> Whatever

[zaeris]

Thanks for the feedback; I seem to be doing a little bit better with this combo, though still nowhere near 'ready for use in a match'. I'm not sure I can reliably train myself to only do 4 hits from 6C, but doing everything super fast seems to be improving my success rate. Thanks for checking for me.

Guess I might have added something confusing when I meant 4 hits it refer to the number or action before going into 22d.

Eg 5bb 5cc = 4 or 5b2bb5c = 4 or jbjc 5cc = 4.

You can land all hits of 6c or you can shorten it to make the combo easier in general, however 6c has good proration an will be make a big difference landing all of it.

Although I prioritise oki over damage, so all xx>xx 22d can become xx>xx>22d > 6cc 236b 214b 22b charged > 5d 5c 2cc> 7j236a corner oki. The damage is the same as normal damage route minus the ct damage so that way you have bar and charges to continue your pressure and mix up option.

@chzchan

There is no reason in general because the 25% ct route gives a good max at 4.4 k damage adding in another 25% doesnt add much plus not counting the stock you use from mugen. It's just bad bad lol only using OD during a 3cc Fch makes a difference since landing that super with 5 charges is the best way to max your damage up.

[Airk]

....that actually made me much MORE confused. =(

[Errol]

The CP combo system is time based. How long it takes to get to a particular combo part determines how much hitstun deterioration you have at that point.

 

if you do 4 normals before 22D certain things won't work. if you do 3 normals before 22d other things won't work. immediate confirms are important for doing real combos. and also for damage, since tsubaki normals have exceptionally bad damage and proration. 

[Airk]

Right; So Zaeris was saying that having 4 normals total before (after? He's said both!) 22D was...good? Bad?  The 5C confirm is easier if...? x.x

[Errol]

just go into training mode and try doing combos off different strings. 

 

The number of normals is the simple way to know what will work. 

[chzchan]

Right; So Zaeris was saying that having 4 normals total before (after? He's said both!) 22D was...good? Bad?  The 5C confirm is easier if...? x.x

 

Here, what he is saying is that the more normals that are in the combo before you land 22D, the harder things will be to follow up. In fact, if you use too many normals, you may not even be able to complete the combo.

 

It is always good to use very few normals before 22D in that combo. 5CC > 22D and 5B > 22D are the most optimal because not only do they allow you to complete the combo, they end up dealing the most damage.

[zaeris]

Right; So Zaeris was saying that having 4 normals total before (after? He's said both!) 22D was...good? Bad?  The 5C confirm is easier if...? x.x

As Errol say's:

BBCP is Time base on proration

 

the quick answer is "BEFORE 22D connects" the maximum hit/action/normal what ever you want to call it is 4 for that combo.

 

I trying to simplify it so people understand that while having optimal damage is nice in real matches it is whatever you use for mix up to get that hit and often it wont start with 5bb or 5cc but we still want to end the combo in the same way for the same KD and oki pressure. There are a few normal that are exception because they have longer start up + active frames. ( did I say after I wonder? lol, guess I will check what I wrote, I will try to be more clear)

 

 

Okay for max number of action (button, falling, D cancel, ectera) for each path,

N>X>X>X>22D>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>5c/5a>2C>236B>214B>22B Requires 4 action MAX

N>X>X>623C>j214D>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>5c/5a>2C>236B>214B>22B. Requires 3 action using N starter is the maximum. (e.g 6a>5cc, 5b>5cc, 2bb>5c,5b2bb)

N>X>623C>delay j214D>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>5c/5a>2C>236B>214B>22B. Requires 2 action using N starter, factoring time to delay j214D. (e.g 5b>5c, 5cc, 2bb, 5bb, 2b5c)

N>X>X> j.214d>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>5c/5a>2C>236B>214B>22B, Requires 3 action MAX e.g. 5b>2cc, 5b>jb.j,c, jb.jcc, j.c j.d jb,

 

N>X>X>22D>OD>6C>CT>6BB>412D 236D> DASH BACK> 5C 2C 236B>214B>22B REQUIRES 3 action max

in general most combo will follow these path, however shorting 6c, from 6 hit to 3 hit can help make combo easier if you have extended the time using 6b for example e.g 6a>5cc>6b 22d path doesn't seem to work, but if you shorten the time on 6c>CT it will combo.

 

 

N= ANY NORMAL/SPECIAL WITH AN "N" STARTER, CHECK WIKI FOR LIST OF N OR S STARTER

X= ANY BUTTON YOU PRESS AFTER "N" THAT FORMS THAT LINK IN THE COMBO E.G 5BB 5CC, 5B IS N STARTER AND B5CC IS THE X>X>X COMBINATION YOU CHOSE.

EXCEPTION FOR X= 6C, 6B,6A,JCC+LANDING THEY ARE COUNTED AS 1.5 COMPARE TO OTHER NORMALS

 

this should give you an idea of what is possible in matches